I think I'm getting the airgun bug

[Ohio Rusty]

I was given a .177 caliber Feinwerkbau 124 airgun with a broken stock. I fixed the stock and have been shooting it a little, but to hit anything, I need a scope. I've been doing some searching of airgun info, and there is a whole world of airgunners out there. Some of these guys hunt game sized animals with them up to the size of a coyote !! One shot kills on game animals out to 40, 50 even 60 yards. This is getting more interesting as I learn more about the potential of todays pellet spitters. I think I need to save my pennines and look at a magnum .22 air rifle next year. Any excuse to get out and shoot more ....... I'll use this .177 in the basement this year to help break the winter doldrums.
Ohio Rusty

[scrapcan]

do a search on large bore airguns. You will be amazed at what people are doing with precharged variety. I think there is a website with custom made airguns for african safari. I have the link but it is at home. You should also read about hte airgun that lewis and clark had with them on their big trip. they shot deer with it as reflected in their journals. There was a great airgun expo at the Cody Firearms museum in Cody, Wyoming a few years ago. I am glad I spent the day in that section (I alwyas do even thought the natural history section is very good also).

[Powderpacker]

Air guns are a great way to get in some indoor trigger time. The mid-price range hand guns like Gamo, Webly, etc. are a lot of fun and very accurate. I also use mine for outdoor pest removal. The IZH-46 is in about the same price range and it is what the Russians used for Olympic air handgun competion a few years back. It's larger than most of the other air handguns and a little quirky to operate but it's extremely accurate and also a lot of fun to shoot.

[GSM]

Both the air rifle and air pistols will give a good (sometimes unpleasant) lesson in follow through - great for reinforcing fundamentals that seem to be forgotten after shooting for a few years.

The IZH 46 is very difficult to be topped for the money. It is built like a T-34 tank and just as accurate as the pre-charged pistols.

[utk]

I think shooting anything bigger than, say a mouse, is unethical. Too little power for a sure kill, IMHO.

[Springfield]

utk: I thought so to, but I have sold some of my BP bullets to air rifle hunters and they shoot things as large as a Ram with them with no problem. Go to some of the air gun hunting sites and you might be surprised, I know I was.

[corvette8n]

Rusty:
I have a Gamo shadow 1000 with a 4x BSA airgun scope, with 8.4gr pellets I get thru and thru's on squirrels and garden hoses(don't ask me how I know this)[smilie=1:
So far I have keep 14 squirrels and 7 chipmonks out of the bird feeder.

[utk]

Ok Springfield, I was thinking of hunting with .177 or .22 and their light 7-15 grs pellets.
Of course there are "bigger guns" that are more powerful. Here in Sweden .22LR is required as a minimum except for rats etc where now a .22 cal airrifle with at least 591 fps (180 meters per second) is permitted.

[corvette8n]

watch the 1st and 3rd videos.
personally I won't shoot anything bigger than a grey squirrel.:-D

http://www.gamousa.com/Catalog.aspx?Action=Videos

[9.3X62AL]

Funny how this thread came up right now. I did some shooting of my RWS-52 air rifle last week at the Burrito Shoot, and its accuracy at 25 yards--and my aging eyesight at 50 yards--have prompted me to seriously explore the acquisition of a scope mount and spring-piston-proof scope to extend the rifle's capabilities.

The -52 is 25 caliber, and the rifle LOVES the Beeman Crow Magnum pellets. These weigh about 26.5 grains, and achieve 780 FPS from this platform. They outclass the 22 LR Colibri rounds significantly at backyard ground squirrel engagement distances (to 40 yards or so). The Colibri requires a head shot on the rats for a guaranteed whack, but the 25 airgun will create a DRT effect with a center-mass hit. I also have a RWS-45 rifle in .177 caliber, and its effects on critters isn't up to the 25's capabilities. 8.0-9.0 grains at 900 FPS won't do for ground squirrels unless a head shot with pointed pellets is employed.

A few years ago, California began allowing the use of air guns for the taking of resident small game and resident game birds. The requirements are .20 caliber minimum, which pretty much eliminates air pistols--very few are made in calibers other than .177". The 25 caliber might be a bit much for most airgun hunting--but excess in the pursuit of rat assassination is no vice. (Apologies to our Founding Fathers). The best "compromise" for diameter--velocity retention--and velocity potential from a given platform seems to be the 22 caliber for hunting. I saw a RWS-48 at Bass Pro last week in 22 caliber, and almost grabbed it. That rifle will give 900 FPS to the 20-22 grain pellets in that caliber. They might shoot a little flatter than my 25, not sure about that. I have taken jackrabbits at 20-25 yards with the 25, and they are lights-out with center-mass or head hits. Head shots usually go through-and-through, center-mass hits usually are contained.

I would welcome any commentary on experiences with airgun scopes. I do know that high-powered spring-piston airguns can destroy centerfire scopes in short order, and would like to avoid that occurrence if possible.

[Scrounger]

I go hot and cold on the air rifle thing. I have a nice RWS Model 48 in .177, RWS Mount and New BSA Air Rifle Scope, but I have had it up for sale for 2 years so I guess the bottom line on it is definitely cold. Every now and then I get the urge to use it but I still prefer real guns...

[Mk42gunner]

Al,

From what I understand it is the 'double recoil' of the spring piston guns that destroys scopes; because in a lot of centerfire scopes the lenses are only braced for recoil in one direction. I would check the construction details of a scope before I put it on a spring gun.

Your 25 cal seems almost as powerful as a 22 short hollow point, so I can see why it works out to 25 yards. I have killed a lot of squirrels, (and more than a few treed or trapped racoons) with those.

Robert

[Larry Gibson]

Please note: This is not a flame or intended to start a pissing match to which some (not you 9.3x62AL) might construe it as. It is merely to add to the topic of conversation and provide information based on my years of experience with air rifles. My intention is only to further the discussion.

9.3x62AL

Not to denegrate the power of said air rifles but the velocities you quote are for the lightest pellets of those calibers. The power of a springer air rifle remains constant so the lighter the pellet the faster it goes and of course the heavier pellets go slower.

I've had a .22 cal M54 for some years and have shot several M48s and M52s. My shooting also included chronographing. Currently I've also a Webly .117 and a Beeman R9 .20. The .22 cal M54 is the same action as the 48/52 but has the recoiless feature added. Published velocity is 900+ fps but that is attainable with the lightest pellets. The 14.3 gr Crosman Premiers run right at 800 fps (ran 830 fps with the first spring). Quality domed pellets and are the best all around pellets as they hold accuracy to a much greater distance than other pellets. They also kill just about as well as most any pelllet. Crow magnums weigh 18.2 gr and run 660 fps. They are very good killers but lose accuracy past 35 -40 yards due to the 1-14.5" twist. A really good killer on short range jack rabbits out to 35 yards was the old Vortex Lamprey which had a massive HP. It to lost accuracy past that. The Crosman Premiers will shoot consistantly under 1" at 50 yards and right at 2" at 90 yards. I've not chronographed the .25 M48/52 but I'm sure your velocities with the best .25 pellets will be down in the 500- 600 fps range. Still quite deadly though.

I've killed 69 rats off my squirrel feeder with the M54 and R9. I've also killed numerous rabbits, lots of ground squirrels quite a few crows, gobs of starlings, several pigeons, a couple feral cats and numerous other small vermin with the M54. The R9 has accounted for some (even managed to shoot a trophy bull elk with it!) and the Webley sees duty around the camp shooting yellow jackets and rogue grasshoppers.

I started out hunting with air rifles a number of years ago (30+) when a friend (who was a part time sportings good distributor) showed up with two demo FWB 124s, a .117 and a .22. We got permission to shoot the ground squirrels around the Forest Service buildings at the airport. Had a ball, got my own air rifles (should have bought that FWB .22 cal) and have enjowed it ever since. Actually my first "kill" was with a pump up .22 cal air rifle (don't remember the name) when I was 5 years old. I had captured a gopher under a bucket and when I tried to pick him up it bit me. I loaded up the pellet rifle (took some doing pumping the rifle up hard), kicked the bucket over and shot it. As to hunting bigger animals than I have with air rifles I figure if I do that I step up to a firearm. Same if I want more power.

Shooting a springer accurately can be a lesson in humility as they have their own quirks. You have to learn to hold them correctly and consistantly. Most of the magnum ones are hell on scopes so a quality air rifle scope is a must. I've run the gamut of RWS, Beeman, Simmons and Burris air rifle scopes on the M54. I'm now using a Leupold and so far so good. The M48/52s and other magnum springers are as bad on scopes. The R9 wears a Simmons 4X which is holding up without problems.

I prefer the springer to a pump or gas air rifle as with the rifle, a can of pellets and one cock they are always ready to go. No pumping and no tanks to go empty. Anyways welcome to the wonderful world of air rifle shooting. It is a very enjoyable part of the shooting sport. I would like to hear of some chronographed velocities from your M52 .25 cal. I generally set the front screen up 2' in front of the muzzle and I get very consistant readings. Last time I chronographed (Oehler 35P) the M54 with CPs (unweighed) the averaged 799 fps with and SD of 6 and an ES of 14 for the 10 shot string.

Larry Gibson

[Scrounger]

Accurate Reloading has quite an active Air Gun group. Carpetman recently posted about killing a 3 foot snake in the tree in his front yard. I believe he has a .20 he bought from Buckshot...

[Larry Gibson]

Might check out the "Squirrel Pellet Gun" thread on our Hunting forum.

Larry Gibson

[9.3X62AL]

Larry--

The 780 FPS figure was chronographed by me, with the Crow Magnum pellets--which are on the light end of the weight spectrum. As far as I know, the piston spring is a stock item--but the guy I bought it from was an engineer at Rohr Industries in Riverside, so he might have had the rifle re-sprung. He was pretty inquisitive, and did lots of wild stuff. Dunno. I do know the sidelever is a bee-otch to cock, more so than a 48 in .177" I tried some years ago. I thought that might be due to the caliber differential--but again, I know just enough to be dangerous on this subject.

I think you are correct on the inaccuracy bit at distance--past 35+ yards with the irons, hits on critters are a little iffy. I thought it might be my eyesight, but if they de-stabilize as you say, that might be the answer.

Thanks a bunch.

[Larry Gibson]

That is pretty cool, must be a different spring in the .25 cal. I much prefer the side cock to a barrel cock, especially with the more powerful models. Will be interesting to see how the accuracy holds with a good domed pellet.

Larry Gibson

[shotstring]

I have a Beeman Rx 2 in 22 cal and consider it an excellent training tool for high power shooting. It quickly shows you the errors in your technique, and is great for small varmint critters up to 40 or 50 yards. The larger the critter, the closer they need to be to be humane.
The problem isn't power - even a 177 fired from a pistol can penetrate a rabbit, in one side and out the other - I have done it. The problem was, the rabbit didn't even realize it had been shot. I was forced to go back into the house, get my Ruger 22 pistol, and with one shot knocked him head over tea-kettle and it was all over. With pellet guns, you just don't have the lead mass, thus the knockdown power. DO NOT use anything but a scope designed for pellet guns! Leupold will not cover the scope under warrantee if they find you used it on a pellet gun, and many Leupolds have been destroyed in just that way. Of the centerfire rifle scopes, for some reason Bushnell Banner scopes do have a reputation of holding up with pellet guns, although I have never used one.

[Ohio Rusty]

The more I've read, the more it seems the air guns that use the air tanks are more popular across the pond. Spring and lever cockers are more popular here in the States. Mt Brother has several 20 caliber guns. I did several years ago get a squirrel with his Beeman .20 and it was an instant kill. That was the only experience I had with air guns/bb guns until recently. Wally World has a Daisy Powerline 3x9x34 for less than $30 and that includes the mounts. It seems lots of guys like a scope made by a company named 'Leapers' I think. They aren't expensive and Natchez and Cheaper than Dirt both sell them so I've read. My eyes aren't good enough for seeing small targets at longer ranges, so a scope is mandatory for me. It's amazing to read folks making head shots on small game at 40 a 50 yards with an airgun !! That means someone put that tiny pellet powered by air into a target 1/2 inch square at 50 yards ..... man o' man that is excellent shooting. Several fellows on another site showed pics of wild turkeys they got with air rifles. That is my idea of a good time !! Unfortunately, that isn't allowed in Ohio. This air gun stuff might get fun, and it sure looks addicting. Next year, I'm leaning toward a .22 caliber, either a RWS/Diana 350 Magnum, a 460 or one of the high power RWS guns, one of the 50 series guns.
Ohio Rusty

[Bob Jones]

I don't have any interest in hunting with one but bought a little $50 air pistol, Russian, at a gun show last year and use it in my shop in the winter shooting at 40'. That thing will put all the shots in 1/2" at 40', the rest of the group size is my fault. It's cheap and convenient practice, lets me shoot at home in the winter with no noise to mention.

[Buckshot]

.............Several years back I was able to buy a NIB RWS M52 for $250. I went searching on the internet to just try and learn some stuff. There is a whole 'nuther world of shooters out there :-), As any one interested in airguns knows, there is a whole bunch of dedicated airgun gunsmiths out there. Folks really into it kick around acronims and jargon having to do with springs and valving, seals, piston rings, oil, lever mods, stocks, triggers, barrels, throating, sights, cylinders, coating etc, etc, AND etc.

One thing I recall as it sounded like so much fun was a couple guys back east somewhere. Apparently there was a group of abandoned warehouses, or up for urban renewel or somesuch. It was by some harbor and was ripe with rats. These 2 guys really did it up right. They had Ghillie suits, infrared lights and scopes. They had some carboard painted white. They'd place this in an "L" shape against a wall with part on the ground and the leg up the wall a foot or so.

Then they'd put canned dog food on the piece on the ground. The idea being the rats would be easier to see against the white cardboard. They did this shooting at night when the rats felt safe under cover of darkness to foray about the complex. Their comments were that it was easy to render upwards of 30 rats in a few hours of 'stakeout' time.

At the time I lived out in the country and shooting ground squirrels around the place caused no problems and didn't require a pellet rifle. I much more enjoyed using a 22RF or my 03A1 Springfield with the Lee Soup Cans over 8.0grs of SR7625 so I sold it to Carpetman. He has Purple Martin houses and sit's on his patio shooting nusiance birds who try to nest in them.

..............Buckshot

[Freightman]

There is an artical in this months "PREDATOR XTREME" magazine with a picture of a man who shot a hog in Oklahoma with a air gun in .45 cal. On the next page there is an advertisment for "air guns" there are five to pick from .177, .22, .25, 9MM, and .45. They are not cheap but intresting and am considering the possability of one in the future. Here is the webb site that the add was run by.
http://www.pyramydair.com
The speed of the projectile is listed as .117 1000fps, .22 1250fps, .25 1000fps, 9mm 900fps, and the .45 at 730fps that is almost as fast as a 1911 230g bullet, serious killing round at close range.
PS: serious prices also.

[drinks]

I made the mistake of buying a 1000fps air rifle at Walmart, a break barrel.
It had a warning label that it was not for anyone under 16, the sorry thing should also have had a warning about over 60 with a rebuilt rotator cuff on one side and a torn bicep on the other.
If I do manage to cock it, I can hardly get the barrel back in place.
It is back to my 35 year old 5mm Sheridan, :<

[Bret4207]

I bought a pump 177 pistol a couple years back for basement/barn practice, a Crossman I think. Sure shoots good at 15-50 feet. It also works for chasing the neighbors cattle off the lawn, but not a good as the kids 177 1000 fps models. Got 2 of those. One Crossman, one Remington. The Remington had a big patch of "something" in the barrel and wouldn't shoot for beans till I got a 17 cal cleaning rod and some 4/0 steel wool. Now, on a good day, I can hold an inch to 35-40 yards with Wally World Crossman pellets.

I'd really like an RWS or other high end 22 or 25 cal air rifle and a really good pistol. I consider them excellent training rifle and they are even cheaper than cast once you get past the initial purchase. Maybe someday.

[Merc41]

I have been facinated with pellet guns/air rifles ever since I was able to purchase my own when I was in 8th grade (many moons ago).
I now currently have 3, but they are nothing spectacular, though I do like them.
My best is the RWS 350 Magnum with a Leapers scope. I also have a little daisy pumper, and have actually put a bushell 3 x 9 on it, just to see how it woud work. You would be amazed! I certainly was.
So all you guys/gals who are contemplating purchasing a fun plinker to good squirrell hunter, get an air rifle, you won't be dissatisfied.


http://members.verizon.net/~vze32nzb/rws1.JPG

[waksupi]

Is it OK, to shoot the copper plated BB's in the break action arms? The ones I have are pellet guns, not BB guns.

[lastmanout]

Is it OK, to shoot the copper plated BB's in the break action arms? The ones I have are pellet guns, not BB guns.

I think the steel BB is a little hard on the rifling. Shotgun reloaders hoping to make steel shot reloads ruined a few barrels using BB ammo for shot- The Brinell hardness thing. The old Beeman catalog said not to do it. Beeman did offer .177 lead balls. Some old pump up airguns had brass barrels , and it might work in those- I just would not expect much accuracy form the steel BB. Hey how about a plastic sabot???:-D

[crabo]

Here's an interesting discussion

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,128246.0.html

[Dale53]

Years ago, in a land far away..., I had a Benjamin air pistol. I made the mistake of shooting a pigeon in the chest at close range with one. It knocked the pigeon down, he got up and started walking around. I shot him again, knocked him down... this went on long enough for me to feel considerably less than good about it. I finally dispatched it. Never shot another animal with an air gun of any type.

However, I never lost my fascination with air rifle shooting. I was grown, married, and had a couple of kids when i bought a Gamo Match Rifle (side pull lever, recoilless, two stage light pull trigger). Money was tight but the Gamo was a truly fine rifle for a fraction of the price of an Anschutz. I shot it quite a bit. I had a 10 meter range set up where I could shoot from the house. I put the rifle on a table (makeshift bench rest) and with a scope I could, not every time, but often, put five shots in the same hole at 10 meters. Many times I would shoot the five in one hole, put another an inch away and you could NOT tell which of the holes had the five pellets in EVEN BY PLUGGING THEM. The Gamo took nearly forty pounds to cock and in a long series was somewhat tiring.

After several years I traded the Gamo in on an Anschuetz Scuba rifle with aluminum stock (with all of the adjustments it made a wonderful "try gun" in the English tradition). It also shoots with scary accuracy. I hung a Simmons 44 mag 6.5x20 scope and keep in on 20 power and shoot it entirely offhand. When I started shooting it, I was beginning to shoot .22 silhouette. My scores were less than I envisioned and I was nearly worn out after a forty shot round. After a couple of months of regular practice with the air rifle, my scores were excellent and I could shoot all day without tiring (two or three entire courses without pain or strain).

An air rifle is probably the best tool for any rifleman who desires to improve his shooting. Top notch .22 ammo runs considerably over $1000 (today's quote is $1350.00 for a case of 5000 rounds) and the best pellets in the world are $60-$80 for 5000.

The Anschutz scuba gun (9003 latest addtion with aluminum stock is $2200+ but the slightly older model 8002 is $1750.00) while obscenely expensive due to the poor dollar position against the Euro, are flat out wonderful rifles. No pumping up, no hard levers, just fill the removable tank from your scuba tank and shoot. Further, you can do position shooting with them without moving from position from shot to shot. Actually, they operate just like a .22 single shot bolt action match rifle for all practical purposes.

They come in two versions - 550 fps for target use and 1000 fps for field use. I prefer the target version since I have no intention of hunting with it and the match velocity is considered to be a bit more accurate. Field Target use would be interesting (and would be better served with the faster rifle) but there are none held locally.

A good rifle is MOST interesting but can be expensive. One thing of interest, I got double for my Gamo after many years of use in trade in on the Anschutz. Those prices I quote above came from Champion Shooters Supply, a really good discount dealer that I have worked with for many years.

One thing of interest, most serious air rifle shooters have gone from the fine Anschutz and Feinwerkbau side lever rifles to scuba rifles. The used side levers are around for MUCH, much less than the scuba rifles and will shoot right along with them. Further, the Anschutz' rifles have about half the cocking effort of my old Gamo.

FWIW
Dale53

[waksupi]

Any idea what size commercial lead shot would come out to .177?


I think the steel BB is a little hard on the rifling. Shotgun reloaders hoping to make steel shot reloads ruined a few barrels using BB ammo for shot- The Brinell hardness thing. The old Beeman catalog said not to do it. Beeman did offer .177 lead balls. Some old pump up airguns had brass barrels , and it might work in those- I just would not expect much accuracy form the steel BB. Hey how about a plastic sabot???:-D

[drinks]

Waksupi, I may be off a few .0000", but I am pretty sure the shot size is "BB".
I just checked, "BB" lead shot is supposed to be .18", but most lead shot I have seen is not really very uniform

[floodgate]

waksupi:

Serendippity-doo-DAH! Yesterday I downloaded (LOVE that computer-ese!) a chart from Richard Corbin's swaging book that shows BB as 0.180", and "Air Rifle" as 0.175". So it looks as though the nominal "177" is a bit flexible.

NO WAY would I put a steel BB down a rifled .177 cal. barrel!!! BB guns were virtually all smoothbores. (But I did remember that in WWII as an early teen-ager, you could get LEAD bee-bees, as the steel ones had "gone to war"; my Daisy et a LOT of them in the woods behind our house.)

[Buckshot]

................I still think a bit of Cox airplane fuel in the cylinder would wonderously 'pep-up' a spring piston air rifle :-) Or maybe a drop of Zippo lighter fuel if you were cheap.

................Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

................I still think a bit of Cox airplane fuel in the cylinder would wonderously 'pep-up' a spring piston air rifle :-) Or maybe a drop of Zippo lighter fuel if you were cheap.

................Buckshot

Very much so. So will petroleum-based lubricants, and over-oiling a spring pistol airgun will produce "dieseling"--and wreck seals in short order.

[Bullshop Junior]

For awhile I had a Norinco Fast deer 177 cal. Good gun. I killed rabbit squirrels and grouse with it. I gave it to a friend when I bought my CZ 22. They are now making this new gold colored pellet, and people are shooting wild hogs with 177 cal guns with them. They also started making 45 and 50 air rifles. I wonder how bad they Kick?
Daniel/BS Jr.

[Hip's Ax]

Petroleum based anything inside an air rifle is bad juju, as 9.3X62AL pointed out it will combust just like a diesel engine. They sell special silicone based lube for air rifles.

Warning: Air Rifles are addictive!

I bought an RWS 75 years back to practice off hand shooting in my basement. Before I knew it I was shooting NRA and USA air rifle matches!

I replaced the RWS with this Walther LG300 a few years ago and now dream about an FWB 700. Big bucks but man, do they shoot!

http://www.champchoice.com/pages/invtpics/2650631.jpg

[Dale53]

Most of the serious match air rifles use short barrels in a "bloop tube" configuration. The barrel on my Anschutz is really only about 11" long. If a feller were to put a "restricter" in the muzzle of the bloop tube with a center hole just big enough to safely pass the pellet, the rifle becomes "silent". You can use a soda straw (the larger malt size) cut a section from the straw about 3/4" long. Then wrap electricians tape around it until you have a press fit in the muzzle of the bloop tube. Now, you have a silent air rifle. I used that for a long time but finally, with a loud pop, it was blown out of the rifle. So, I had a machinist friend turn an insert out of aluminum that is a tight press fit. It has a knurled section that sticks out of the muzzle about 1/4"-3/8" so you can get it out if needed. I think that I had him make the hole about .200". That gives a bit of clearance for a little pellet wiggle room.

It has absolutely NO effect on accuracy (it just uses the bloop tube as an expansion chamber to filter the gas off more slowly to mitigate the noise). My neighbors can no longer hear my rifle and they (shooters on both sides) are happier when they don't hear it.

The only sounds that are heard are the mechanical sounds of the air valve in the rifle (like dry firing) and the pellet hitting the target paper. Since I made a silent pellet trap, there is no "bang" like there was with my steel bullet trap. Here is a silent pellet trap web site. I used this information when I built my backstop for the back yard:

http://www.babymd.net/aa_improved_silent_pellet_trap.htm

Keep in mind that the information presented is for "information only". I have NO idea how this would work with a high velocity air rifle (my match rifle is .177" and gets 550 fps). The two things that were and are important to me in an air rifle are: ACCURACY and QUIET.

As an aside, there are some very nice Olympic Match quality CO2 rifles available used. The eastern bloc made thousands of them and when the "wall" came down they became available. A good used one can be had for $300-$500 dollars. CO2 varies velocity with temperature, so they have fallen out of favor. However, that, in the real world, for casual target shooting is of little concern. The CO2 match rifles will shoot with the best and do NOT require pumping. I have both a rifle and a match pistol that use CO2. I have a small CO2 cylinder that (like a smaller version of the scuba air tank for my Anschutz) supplies my CO2 guns.

Dale53

[jim4065]

Reading this thread reminded me of how much I miss my old Beeman C1. It's hard to get out to the range - so I had to do something:

http://www.auctionarms.com/closed/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=8379229

Nothing but fond memories of Beeman quality - don't even know what caliber this is, but it's gotta be fun. :-D

[Dale53]

If you really want to improve your offhand shooting, then get a really good air rifle. The better ones will keep all of the shots in the same hole at the standard 10 meter distance. I have no desire to hunt with an air rifle (heck, I think the .22 is underpowered for squirrels[smilie=1:). However, there is NO better practice shooting than with a good air rifle. The cost is nearly nothing whereas good .22 ammo can be REAL expensive.

I built a range in my yard so I can shoot at will.

Dale53