At the range today, Re:would you shoot this?

[AlaskanGuy]

Well, me and AlaskanGurl decided to head out to the range today... When we got there it was pretty deserted except for our friend Mike. I started walking in his direction, and he looked over at me and there was blood on his face and hands... It wasn't bleeding too bad and he had a pretty good handle on it, but it was obvious that he was pretty shook up. Once things were under control i asked him what happened.... Turns out that my friend had just loaded up some rounds for his brand new Ruger model 77 Mark II chambered in 204 ruger.. Apparently, his very last round wouldn't chamber properly as he likes to really engage the lands. He drove the bullet into the chamber with a bit of force, got lined up and pulled the trigger... He is not quite sure what happened except that there was a large bang, and he felt something hit his face on the nose and cheek. Once he was all settled he handed me the gun, and told me that the case was still inside. I attempted to extract the spent case, and it was stuck... I took a hard look at the bolt area and the slide on the side of the bolt had mostly blown off, in fact the whole bolt itself was quite a mess and will surely need to be replaced. It seems that in trying to force the bullet into the chamber, he managed to peel a piece of the neck off or puncture it in some way allowing everything to basically blow back into his face.... Thank god he had his glasses on. He is a very experienced shooter and reloader.

The whole thing reminded me of a post here recently about "would you shoot this" involving a round that was partially creased and obviously damaged... There were some in the forum that would actually have shot that round....

My point is this... When I was in the military teaching class on the M-60, we had a simple rule. Do not shoot anything that is questionable in any way.

When i was a boy, my policeman father taught me again and again Never shoot a sub standard anything....

My rule is simple, if there is something wrong and something does not seem to be working or chambering, or loading right, get rid of it... Don't ask "I wonder if it will still shoot", if you do, you might just be saying to yourself "I wish I wouldn't have done that"' or worse yet your widow might have to say the same thing... Never Compromise that simple rule... Dont shoot anything sub standard, without exception.

Take it from somebody that still has lead in both legs below the knees... Be safe, not sorry...

Ok.. I am done preaching now..

AlaskanGuy

P.S. Anbody know where I can find a new bolt for that mdl 77 mark 2 204 ruger?? I am gunna try to help my old friend find one.

[carbine86]

Very wise words there. I myself always error on the side of caution as well.

[starmac]

Geez, glad he is ok, that could have turned out a lot worse, especially with no one there.

[HangFireW8]

Could be-
- too long untrimmed neck, chamber step pinches neck, case fails to release bullet, high pressure results
- left previous bullet in bore and ejected unfired empty, forced another load in after it, new load's bullet gets pushed back into the neck, now you've got two in a row.

[cheetah]

Twice I've clicked off rounds with no powder and I beat myself up for it because it means I lost control of a process, irrespective of the outcome - harm is pretty sneaky. Thanks for the reminder. I wish you both well.

[AlaskanGuy]

I am thinking that my friend will have me fix it for him... If he does, i will post pics and we can fix together.... I will strip the gun and remove everything before i try to get the bolt out.... Also.. There is no lead in the barrel at first glance... I think the bullet came out. But i will need my bore light to verify for sure.

[starmac]

If I was him, I would let you fix it and pay for a couple hundred rounds for you to fire off. lol

[rbuck351]

Driving a bullet into the lands on a already 62000 psi round could easily push pressure way over the top. Fire forming a 17000 psi round in a Ruger Black Hawk that's a little squished isn't even in the same class. But yeah, there is no point in firing a tweaked
$.10 round in anything. The 38 case in question could easily break at the kink and leave pieces of brass in the chamber or the barrel and they would have to be dug out before moving on. Certainly not worth the effort to try to save a $.10 round. Anytime a round doesn't chamber easily it's time to stop and check things out. Forcing a bolt either open or closed indicates problems that need to be addressed before continuing.

[dudel]

And people wonder why a trauma kit is part of my standard range gear. Be careful, be prepared.

[forfun]

wish your friend a speedy recovery

[jonp]

I'm glad about 2 things.
1). Your friend is ok
2). My post has made people stop and think about things and started a dicussion on safety.

[canyon-ghost]

Driving a bullet into the lands on a already 62000 psi round could easily push pressure way over the top.

My first thought was, "Isn't this one of the new 4,000fps rounds?" Good Luck to you and your friend.

[AlaskanGuy]

Yes it is one of them new fangled rounds.... Not much of a cast gun me thinks...

[mdi]

I think some have missed the point of Alaskan guy's post. Doesn't matter why the kaboom happened...

My point is this... When I was in the military teaching class on the M-60, we had a simple rule. Do not shoot anything that is questionable in any way.

When i was a boy, my policeman father taught me again and again Never shoot a sub standard anything....

My rule is simple, if there is something wrong and something does not seem to be working or chambering, or loading right, get rid of it... Don't ask "I wonder if it will still shoot", if you do, you might just be saying to yourself "I wish I wouldn't have done that"' or worse yet your widow might have to say the same thing... Never Compromise that simple rule... Dont shoot anything sub standard, without exception.

Thanks AlaskanGuy...

[AlaskanGuy]

Amen MDI

[GaryN]

I certainly would not be shooting a compromised gun. Just think about it. You have 60,000+ psi inches from your face. I could never trust that gun again.

[geargnasher]

.....He is a very experienced shooter and reloader. Obviously not experienced enough, but perhaps he is now and thank goodness (and strong Ruger actions) is still here to make use of that experience.

My point is this... When I was in the military teaching class on the M-60, we had a simple rule. Do not shoot anything that is questionable in any way.

When i was a boy, my policeman father taught me again and again Never shoot a sub standard anything....

My rule is simple, if there is something wrong and something does not seem to be working or chambering, or loading right, get rid of it... Don't ask "I wonder if it will still shoot", if you do, you might just be saying to yourself "I wish I wouldn't have done that"' or worse yet your widow might have to say the same thing... Never Compromise that simple rule... Dont shoot anything sub standard, without exception.

I believe it was CBRick who related a story about a fellow who used a mallet to pound the bolt closed on a .50 BMG reload and lost some body parts in the process. "if it don't fit, force it" doesn't apply to explosives.

Hopefully the regularity of these types of reality-check posts will help prevent such events. My thanks to you and best regards to your friend.

Gear

[bhn22]

He didn't try to chamber and fire a 223 by mistake, did he?

[AlaskanGuy]

Nope... He did not chamber a 223.

[303Guy]

So as already stated; either there was a bullet left in the throat or the case neck was too long, pinching the bullet. I've had the double bullet scenario but my choice of powder saved me - full case. The bullet pushed back alright but nowhere near enough to chamber. I changed my loading practice pronto. Now I never seat a bullet/boolit without first placing the case in a case tray and shining a light down it for inspection of the powder charge. Never powder a case then seat the boolit in one action.

[Harter66]

Its good to hear your friend is ok. It sounds as if the gas handling worked as intended.

I recently had a similar discusion reguarding putting the largest possible cartridge in a pre war Mauser. There were several suggestions of pretty hot mags to which I suggested 30kpsi 45-70 Ruger load over the 60kpsi 458 WM . They told me the Mausers were proofed to 130% for 48k cup so 62-65k psi was fine in 60+yo combat vet actions,because their design will handle 125k psi. Me I'm not going there but that's me. I'd say if the bolt is actually damaged ,lugs especially burns or craters that it should be at least dye inspected . As mentioned if the case itself ,more than a blown primer he may have even exceeded proof levels,or a crushed neck may have vented down the rails. I have blown 2 primers 1 in a hot (90+ degree day in full su for a couple of hrs) MK X Mauser easy close ,moderate load,easy extraction. The 2nd a top load in a heavily modified Carcano , while the bolt lifted a little stiff for half the lift then easy. Meanwhile I broke and extractor in a Savage w/8.0 Unique and 155g cast in an LC Match case w/o any case damage . I file these 3 under WTH happened and avoid that set of circumstances. The MK X only shoots 10 shot strings on cool mornings, the Savege doesn't get Match brass,and the Carcano stops a 80% of the load window w/10x.

[AlaskanGuy]

Great post harter....

[starmac]

I know for a fact, that AlaskaGuy KNOWS that some folks can't tell the difference between 338 mag and 375 mag, soooooo lol

[AlaskanGuy]

Lol... Good thing you diddnt mention any names there STARMAC.... He he

[starmac]

Yea, No names, but I reckon a BOLD hint would be alright. lol

[rbuck351]

Actually it does matter why it went kaboom. It went kaboom because he didn't stop and check things out when "his very last round wouldn't chamber properly......He drove the bullet into the chamber with a bit of force". One of the things I got from Alaskanguy's post is "Do not shoot anything that is questionable in any way." He even said that was his point and I agree. So yeah it does matter why it went kaboom. It appears his friend had something happen that was not normal (questionable) and he continued to keep going.