load for 30/30

[weasel 21]

I cast some 30/30 bullets from a Lee 170/.309 mold. wrinkles, yeah I got em. I used Liquid alox on the bullets & put on the gas checks . I just wnna see how they will shoot. I will be shooting them out of a Winchester 94 made in 1994. Anyone have a good load for this?

[geargnasher]

Serious question: Are you joking?

Gear

[codgerville@zianet.com]

Get rid of the wrinkles. Get a loading manual.

[weasel 21]

Get rid of the wrinkles. Get a loading manual.

I have cast thousands of bullets, mostly with old Saeco & RCBS molds & I get perfect Bullets right from the start. Ive never had any luck with Lee molds but I bought one for the 30/30 & I cast for a good 2 hours & never got 1 good bullet. Never completely filled out & a wrinkle running the full length of the bullet. I cleaned & lubed under the plate & pins. Frustrated I took 100 of the best Sized, gas checked & ready to shoot as fun.Whats up with Lee molds?

[Wayne S]

SEE the box at the top Rt. that says ADVANCED SEARCH try using it by typing in "30-30"

[dualsport]

I like mild loads of Bullseye in the 30-30. Data for those is plentiful. Good luck.

[codgerville@zianet.com]

I have cast thousands of bullets, mostly with old Saeco & RCBS molds & I get perfect Bullets right from the start. Ive never had any luck with Lee molds but I bought one for the 30/30 & I cast for a good 2 hours & never got 1 good bullet. Never completely filled out & a wrinkle running the full length of the bullet. I cleaned & lubed under the plate & pins. Frustrated I took 100 of the best Sized, gas checked & ready to shoot as fun.Whats up with Lee molds?
The Saeco and RCBS molds are excellent, wish I could afford some. I use Lyman molds, and some are very old, but easy to cast with. I have bought Lee molds in the past, having been told how great they are. I sent several to the land fill. For those who use them with good results, more power to you. Best bullet I have found for 30-30 is 311041, sized .309, does well in Marlin 336 and Stevens 325.

[JeffinNZ]

Very disappointing to see the degree of sarcasm in this thread people. It's a genuine question.

The poster has 88 posts and may not be offerly familiar with the forum works. Come on people.

In response:

I have had very good luck recently with both 14gr of 2400 and 22gr of Benchmark for 1650 and 1700fps respectively using very soft alloy.

[williamwaco]

I like 9 grains Unique with that bullet.
I don't think you are going to get any accuracy with the full length wrinkle.

Go back to the search function and search for "leementing" to get some ideas on how to make the mold work.

Then read

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?32584-Leementing-Documentation-w-Photos

[waco]

As to the wrinkles. Spray the mold cavities with brake cleaner. Then use dawn dish soap and an old toothbrush to scrub out the cavities and the mold blocks. Then rinse well with hot water and then boil them in clean water for ten minutes. Dry the mold. Make sure the mold is up to temp when you start casting. Lee molds (aluminum ) like to be ran hot.
This should fix the wrinkles.
Waco

[cummins05]

i feel 2 ways about all this first off yes i agree the search funtion is there for a reason. I also think that honestly the OP may not be very familiar with the site seeing as how he is asking about something so simple. Right away everyone has to turn against the question and actually be rude. Another thing is that instead of not helping the person to learn why not guide them to the corect answer.

[gwpercle]

weasel 21,
The 9 grains of Unique is a good load, If you have a supply of Red Dot , 8.5 grains is also accurate in my model 94.
Aluminum moulds ( i'm not sure if it's just Lee's ) seem to have cutting oils in the pores of the metal. I clean the cavity first with Dawn, a toothbrush and lots of hot water...scrub that sucker till you think it can't get any cleaner, then clean with Acetone and a toothbrush and heat it up and cast a few, let it cool down. Repeat that last step untill it starts dropping good boolits. I start getting good results on the third cycle . I usually get too much synthetic 2-stroke oil on the pins etc and wind up contaminating the cavities again....got to be real careful when lubing. I use what I think is just a little but I don't know when to quit and overdo it...I'll learn.
I'm thinking about soaking the blocks in a jar of acetone for two or three weeks to see if that would help get all the oil out of the pores of the next Lee mould I get.
The good news is...once cleaned and degreased they work fine untill you over-do the lube and get it in the cavities. But that lube usually can be easily cleaned out with a Q-Tip and acetone or burned away by just casting a few boolits.
Don't give up on the Lee's...once you understand thier idiosyncrasies they will work for you. They work totally different for Lyman's that is for sure
Gary

[Prospector Howard]

w21, I've had really good results with 2400. I use a little more than JeffinNZ; more like 16 gr. It's almost like 2400 was made for the 30-30 and cast, for me anyway. Give it a try, I'll bet you'll like it. You should start with a little less, and work up till you get the results you like.

[ShooterAZ]

+1 on 15 grains 2400, or 9 grains Unique. Preheat your mold on a hot plate first, and the wrinkles will probably disappear.

[BeeMan]

Wrinkles could be from low mold temperature or inadequate cleaning. I'll guess heat based on your success with RCBS, etc. Aluminum molds take more heat. Preheat before the first pour, cast faster to push mold temp up, etc.

Liquid Alox may work. I reserve it for lower speed stuff in short barrels. My 30-30 experience with Felix Lube is excellent.

Others have mentioned 2400. My first cast loads in 30-30 used 15.0 grains of the old Hercules 2400 behind a gas checked 194 grain with very satisfactory results.

You might try a few of the wrinkled castings at short range to rough check your powder selection and lube choice, but accuracy will likely be disappointing.

Aluminum molds can work but do require a different temperature and or cadence. The workmanship and results from the custom mold makers is a big step up from Lee though. Good luck.

[462]

Wrinkle elimination:
1. Thoroughly clean the mould.
2. Pre-heat the mould to its optimum casting temperature.

Two or three heating and cooling cycles will improve a moulds performance and boolit quality.

Accurate 5744 and IMR 4198 are other powder considerations.

[Larry Gibson]

+ another on cleaning the mould and making sure it is hot.

Brake cleaner then hot (I mean hot) soap and water scrub work best. Never had a single problem with lee or any other aluminum mould after that. Prep the sprue plate and lube as usual.

If using COWWs I suggest adding 2 % tin to the alloy and cast at 725+/- degrees for alloy temp. I put the bottom corner of the mould in the alloy to bring it to temp. When the alloy doesn't stick to the mould block it is up to casting temp. Never have to cast more that 2 bullets after that to get perfect bullets.

Try 24 gr H4895 (or any other flavor) and work up to 28 gr in your M94. Works for me.

Larry Gibson

[aspangler]

If all else fails to get rid of the wrinkles, try this. Lee in his reloading manual said to use a propane torch to burn the oils and contaminates out of the mold cavities. DON'T MELT THE MOLD!!! After doing this the mold will be too hot so allow it to cool for a few minutes then cast a few. Should be working by your third or forth cast. I have that mold and that is what I had to do after all the other things mentioned in this thread did not work. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. It worked for me. It now casts perfect boolits every time after it is up to temp.
As for a load I use 32.2 grs of IMR 4064. Good accuracy out of my 336. YRMV

[AlaskanGuy]

I have that same mold.... Are you casting from a bottom pour pot?? If you are, make sure that you heat up that mold a bit more and run your alloy a bit hotter.... Mine used to produce wrinkles too, till i figured out the heat... Now it just casts perfect....... Almost every time... I use range lead scrap with tin added to get this... You can get your casting... Just don't give up on it.... I don't use any lube on my mold at all.. I dont think its a good idea.

87569

Good luck and keep trying...

AlaskanGuy

Ps... Dont fret about the sarcastic remarks... Its just their time of the month.... Or in a few cases, male menopause.. He he

[Doc Highwall]

I use 7 grains of Unique with a 311041PB bullet shoots just like a big 22lr.

[tuckerdog]

if you think the mold is clean, clean it 2 more times. I cast lee molds hot and fast, it seems to be the only way I get good boolits from them, they cast fine just hotter than most. use your lube spareingly DO NOT let it work into cavities. look at sticky for leementing. Wont quote upper loads but I do use alot of imr 3031 and have found no reason to switch for light loads you should find a sweet spot between 7 to 9 grains of unique accuracy seems to go awry getting close to 10

[Le Loup Solitaire]

There are 2 issues here. First the wrinkles...usually caused by oil or some other hydrocarbon based item present in or around the mold cavity....it has to be completely removed or you won't get rid of the wrinkles. I clean mold cavities with Acetone, a ver efficient and nasty(like bad for you) solvent that is best used outdoors. Also another contributor to wrinkled bullets is the alloy and the mold being too cold. Wrinkling is not uniform and can cause uneven weight distribution on/in the bullet and they also look awful. Second issue....what load for the 30-30 WCF....a lot of powders will work if loaded correctly, but the 30-30 seems to work best with medium burning powders. I finally settled on IMR 3031 which does a good job. The max usually listed is 30 to 31 grains with a 170 grain bullet. I started with 25 grains and worked up..finding that 27 grains gave me the best accuracy in 2 Winchester 94's---a regular rifle and a carbine. Keep the cases trimmed to uniform length and use a slight roll crimp. LLS

[10x]

As to the wrinkles. Spray the mold cavities with brake cleaner. Then use dawn dish soap and an old toothbrush to scrub out the cavities and the mold blocks. Then rinse well with hot water and then boil them in clean water for ten minutes. Dry the mold. Make sure the mold is up to temp when you start casting. Lee molds (aluminum ) like to be ran hot.
This should fix the wrinkles.
Waco

Point, game, set, and match.
I have yet to use a lee mold that would NOT cast a good bullet when cleaned, with the mold up to temperature, and with clean alloy at the right temperature.

I have settled on 8 grains of unique for the lee 150 grain with a gas check - or 7.5 grains of 700x.
IMR 3031 works well as does 2400 with the lee bullet too but 8 grains of Unique is my go to pinking load


I started casting with the Lee 150 grain mold over 40 years ago. It still casts a very nice bullet.
I have had more issues with Lyman molds than ever with Lee.

If you are not getting a wrinkle free bullet from a Lee mold - it is not the mold, it is something you did not do in your prep. I have purchased a number of Lee molds that "would not cast" a good bullet, and after a simple clean up with good alloy and the first three bullets discarded, they cast very well for me.
One guy was using a candle to smoke the mold - not realizing the smoke was waxy and that was the source of wrinkles. Another was using an excess of lube on the sprue plate screw....

A word about smoking a cleaned lee (or any aluminium mold) - use a hardwood splinter (not a candle or a match with wax in the wood) and smoke the cavity lightly when the mold is cold. If you see soot from the smoke then you may have too much smoke. Smoking a mold when hot does not allow the smoke to settle on the surface fo the mold.
A sooty mold is a dirty mold.

After my experience with Lee molds I sometimes wonder at the troubles some here have with them. And the solutions to those troubles. Maybe I have just been lucky.

[BCB]

I know you mentioned the Lee 170 grainer, but I shoot the 311041 which weighs in at around 173 grains…

2400…15 grains…
IMR-3031…26 grains…
IMR-4895…23.5 grains…
WC-852…35 grains…1755 fps… (Lot #47287 in the 4350 to 4831 burn range)
XMP-5744…23.5 grains…1801 fps…

The ones that I list the fps, are the ones that gave me acceptable accuracy with a ‘scoped Model ’94…

An inch or so at 50 yards and many times, dead 12-ounce cans at 100 yards. All from a very good bench rest…

Good-luck…BCB

[abearir]

I've had good luck with 16-19g of 2400 and 20-22g of IMR4198 with that bullet sized .311 and .309

[tygar]

I have cast thousands of bullets, mostly with old Saeco & RCBS molds & I get perfect Bullets right from the start. Ive never had any luck with Lee molds but I bought one for the 30/30 & I cast for a good 2 hours & never got 1 good bullet. Never completely filled out & a wrinkle running the full length of the bullet. I cleaned & lubed under the plate & pins. Frustrated I took 100 of the best Sized, gas checked & ready to shoot as fun.Whats up with Lee molds?

Man am I with you!

I got back into casting a few months ago & bought a bunch of Lee molds & several RCBS & Lyman.

Not "1" Lee cast well for sometimes 100s of bullets. The RCBSs cast "perfect" bullets immediately & the Lymans
almost as good.

All molds were cleaned, prepped, smoked & heated but the Lee still sucked. I still only get about 75 or 80% acceptable (not perfect) from Lee. The others are almost always great.

I also have RCBS, Lyman that are 40 yrs old & they still cast great bullets, the old Lees do OK, better than the new ones.

I wouldn't bother with custom molds if RCBS & Lyman made some of the ones I want, considering the wait to get some of them.

I did get one NOE mold & it is really nice & if he has molds I need I will sure get more from him.

With the new Lees, get them hot & keep them hot, especially the sprue plate. I have actually been using propane torch to get them going & insure all of it is hot enough. I know, but I'm careful & won't ruin them & if I do, so what, they are.....Lees!

[leadman]

One way I have found to get a Lee mold to start casting good boolits is to swing the sprue plate open and then run hot alloy in one of the cavities for a bit, then immedialtely open the mold and drop the lead. Brush any loose lead from the block faces and do the other cavity. This will usually fix the mold. If not try it again. It does not hurt to smoke the cavities with a match as the carbon will help absorb any oils still in the mold. Just do not hesitate to open the mold when you quit pouring as it will be very difficult to get it open otherwise.

[Qc pistolero]

I got a couple of these moulds(they are oldies,dating early to mid 80's)and I've experienced your problem at one point or another.From what I've experienced,shooting wrinkled bullets will give ok performance for plinking;that is shooting at 50 yds standing(if I find some after I inspected them and after I've lubed them).

To cure the wrinkling problem,many options are good;brake cleaner is one of them.if you don't have any at hand,try casting quick at a very hot temp as to burn out the oïl in the mould.If after aprox 25 fillings with very hot lead the problem doesn't cure,I'd say don't spend any more time and go get that break cleaner.After using it,don't forget to smoke your mould again as per Lee's instructions(I assume that you've already done that in the first place and that your wrinkling problem occured after properly smoking the cavities of the mould)

As for the loads,anything in the lower end with Unique should give you very good performance(between 1000 to 1200 fps).Since you use gas checks,I would venture into loads that'll give a little more oomphs and for these,I'd suggest that you can go to IMR 3031 (according to reloading books) which have always given me good performance outta 16 or 24 in.barrels.Of course,they will give good accuracy only with unwrinkled bullets(LOL)

Qc Pistolero

[OverMax]

I know Lee is a sponsor here. My intentions are not to criticize. But: I too prefer to have/use ductile iron molds only. Just my preference is all. And that's all I have to say on that subject.
As for a powder to use. I've already experimented with most of these powders mentioned in this thread at one time or another I being in the past always on the scout for that better powder load. For one reason or another I just got tried of experimenting and returned back to the usual rifle powders for this venerable cartridge. 3031 4198 2230 748 Re-#7. 2230 being my favorite. Cast or J-word both boolit types seemed to function much better with those legendary powders I've just commented on. Intermediate burning pistol powders or small capacity rifle cartridge powders seemed like they would function well in one 30-30 rifle and not so well in another. Even though the rifles manufacture were the same as were the models. So its your call. Use pistol powders. Dual purpose shotgun powders. Or what other old timers have used for decades. (above) Again its your call. Good Luck with your search Sir.

[Wolfer]

I've had good luck with lee mold after I get them clean. It's easy to tell if their not clean, you have wrinkles. If the smoke from my sprue plate, alignment pins gets in the cavity I'll have wrinkles.
In my 336 and 311041 I shoot 17 gr of 2400. This is where accuracy started falling off. 1700 fps.
Pleasnt to shoot, very accurate and a good performer on deer.

[Lead Fred]

Try 24 gr H4895 (or any other flavor) and work up to 28 gr in your M94.


WoW someone that uses rifle powder in a rifle. What a refreshing change. I use 25 gr IMR4895 behind Ranch Dogs 170gr 30WCF boolit

[TXGunNut]

Waco nailed it, had to scrub one new NOE mold a third time but it finally started dropping good boolits. Every mould seems to have a temp and cadence it likes, my Lees and other aluminum moulds like to run fast & hot. I like 14-16 grs of 2400 in the 30-30. Keeps powder costs down, is very uniform, consistent and pleasant to shoot.

[10x]

Waco nailed it, had to scrub one new NOE mold a third time but it finally started dropping good boolits. Every mould seems to have a temp and cadence it likes, my Lees and other aluminum moulds like to run fast & hot. I like 14-16 grs of 2400 in the 30-30. Keeps powder costs down, is very uniform, consistent and pleasant to shoot.

This,
Clean mold
Preheat mold
Hot alloy
Clean alloy
all add up to very nice bullets.

If you have wrinkles in your bullets it is either Alloy is not hot enough or the mold is not quite clean.

[weasel 21]

Thanks for all the info. I tried casting with this 30 cal mold again. I got mixed results. 1st thing I cleaned mold multiple times with hot water & soap; brakeclean; mineral spirits. I scrubbed the heck out of it. I could get really clean bullets (perfectly shineny) with alloy at 825 F Still some wrinkles. Just for the hell of it I pulled out a Lee 340gr 45/70 mold & I had perfect bullets from the beginning. I cast about 250 of them while things were working. One thing I noticed it seemed like it was a lot easier to fill out these big bullets than pour a long skinny one. I was ladle casting with multiple ladles; lyman,rcbs,wholesale car, & a ladle made by a member . There has got to be a technique for pouring these 30 cal bullets.

[KCSO]

You also may need to lap the mould out just a little. This seems to help with the fill out on some of the rougher moulds. I use a dipper and start with a full dipper for each bullet. As to loads my 30-30 prefered 10.0 of Unique and I was lubing with bear oil and beeswax lube or liquid alox. Trail Boss is also a good one for the 30-30 but I don't have my notes here so I can't tell you what load worked best there.

[cbrick]

Since the OP has good success with the RCBS molds it's a safe bet an oily mold is not his problem and he knows how to clean it. If he is using tin in his alloy the suggestion to crank up the pot temp is not correct, shouldn't get it up to 750 for the tin's sake.

I think the OP's wrinkle problem is the same one many casters encounter, he has used only iron molds that once up to proper casting temp hold that heat fairly well. Then he starts using a small block aluminum mold that sheds heat very fast. The solution is to pre-heat the mold to a good casting temp & cast at a faster pace to keep it hot. Don't waste time looking at your new boolits while casting. Close the blocks, close the sprue & re-fill quickly. While your admiring your new boolits the mold is cooling very quickly and you'll never get or keep it up to proper temp. I think your only problem is the change from iron to aluminum & that is nothing more than a learning curve & a bit of experience.

One of my favorite 30-30 powders is 4759 - 18-19 gr with your boolit, standard primer.

Rick