Money is no object - need opinions on furnace

[dverna]

I am interested in finding the best casting furnace to make the best quality cast bullets possible. I am leaning towards a bottom pour only because I have physical issues that make long sessions of ladle pouring less likely as I continue to deteriorate.

I have looked at the Mastercaster but wonder if it is will produce accurate rifle bullets. It may be the solution for pistol bullets where moa accuracy is not needed so I am prepared to have more than one melter if that is what I need.

My rifle bullets will be for 5.56, .30/30 and two .308 target guns. Pistol bullets will be for .40 S&W. I will also be casting buckshot and 12 ga Lyman slugs.

Price is no object. Priorities are large quantities of good pistol bullets at one extreme and moa accurate rifle bullets at the other extreme.

Your opinions and rationale appreciated.

Don Verna

[Oreo]

ProMelt.

I mean, you can spend more money to get a pot with more capacity but you won't get higher quality. At least not any type of quality that's going to make any difference in the quality of boolits you cast.

Now, you could accessorize for maybe some improvement. I don't think it's necessary but some folks have used a PID to control the temp of the melt. A ProMelt will do pretty well on it's own though. You could get a second furnace, a Lee 4-20 would do, to pre-melt ingots for refilling the ProMelt as you cast.

That's pretty much it for the Cadillac of lead furnace systems.

[cbrick]

I recommend the Magma Master Pot. You don't need the auto casting machine (the Master Caster), just the pot. I also highly recommend the PID controller, what a joy to use.

The pot will make no difference in the quality of your boolits as long as the pot temp is consistent, your casting will. Did I mention the PID? In addition there is nothing like having 40 pounds of all the exact same alloy.

Money was a very big object for me and I still bought the Master Pot with PID. I was almost sick to my stomach with what it cost right up until about an hour after I took it out of the box, haven't given the price a second thought since.

Rick

[dondiego]

What is the price of a Magma Master Caster?

[cbrick]

Hhmmm . . . My mistake, the Master Caster is the auto machine. The Master Pot is the one he wants. I'll edit that in the post.

The Master Pot is $575 and the PID is $200.

Rick

[OuchHot!]

I have to agree with Rick. I have a pro-melt and a lee and both are very fine pots but you gain a lot of consistency with higher capacity. The 12g slugs will drop the level of a 20# pot pretty fast. I have found the pid to be a great addition to both of my pots.

[beagle]

"Good to see a high roller wander through". (Clint Eastwood, Outlaw Josey Wales)

By all means, the RCBS Pro Melt. I have two of the 110 VAC Pro Melts and have used them for years. I highly recommend them and RCBS customer service is second to none if there is a problem./beagle

[cbrick]

Yep, I too have a Pro-Melt and a Lyman 20#. Loaned the Lyman to a friend several years ago, probably never see that again. :sad: Still use the RCBS that I got in the late 70's - early 80's for my soft alloy but my far and a away most used alloy is in the 40# Magma.

When a man says "money no object" and he wants quality and high volume pistol rounds he really does want the PID Master Pot. Besides built like a tank the constant temp control and 40 pound capacity is what he is asking about.

RCBS customer service is tough to beat for sure but the folks at Magma don't slouch off on this either. Nobody warrants electric/electronic components forever, not even RCBS.

Rick

[popper]

I got the Lee dripper and made my PID. With Tom's 4x 311-165 I did 15# this morning. Do MOA in the AR on a god day. Had ~ 20 with rounded GC shank so I'll try those w/o checks. PID really helps as does a fine mould. Melter does just that and size may matter. Lee takes some maintenance but works. I make a lot of 40, 9 & 30/30 with the Lee pot, enough to fill a 1# peanut jar in a session, ~450 CBs/jar.

[1bluehorse]

If it were me and money was no object, I'd buy bullets...............there are some bullet makers (Beartooth for one) that make excellent bullets and the way you want em'....but if you must cast your own....Magma is the top of the line and the Pro Melt would be second...

[dverna]

"Good to see a high roller wander through". (Clint Eastwood, Outlaw Josey Wales)

/beagle

Now that was funny. Not sure I would consider myself a high roller but I am in my sixties and have learned to buy the best. It usually results in fewer problems and a better outcome with less effort.

I currently have a Lyman 20 lb electric and with an H&G 10 cavity .38 WC mold I can produce bullets that shoot 3" groups at 50 yards (50 shots) so it does the job. I use a consistent alloy so that likely helps. But I cannot handle much ladle casting so I need a better option for high volume pistol bullets. I no longer shoot Bullseye so great pistol bullet accuracy is nice to have but not a deal killer. I mostly plink and shoot CAS with pistols.

"If it were me and money was no object, I'd buy bullets". Let me address that. First, buying bullets only works while bullets can be bought. Who knows what will happen down the road. Plus, I believe in being self-sufficient so making bullets fits in. Now to the economics. I plan to use 100k bullets or more during my lifetime . Assuming I use a $70 Lee, that is a melter cost of $.0007/bullet. If I spend $1000, my melter cost is $.01/bullet. Commercial bullets will be $.08 (pistol) to .20 (rifle) - so even with the very best equipment, casting saves a lot of money. I think too many people look short term when making investments in guns/scopes/reloading/casting - and to me they are investments. I can sell almost every casting/reloading tool I have for more than I paid for it and I have had the pleasure and benefits of using good quality eqipment for decades of use.

Don Verna

[blikseme300]

Don,

If I had to start over outfitting my casting setup the first item I would get is a PID. The larger capacity bottom pour pots would be next. Pick the brand that has the least complaints regarding leakage and go from there. If you are adventurous fabricate your own smelter such as those I and others have done.

Bliksem

[garymcgehee52]

I would have to recommend the Pro Melt.

[Outpost75]

I have a pair of Pro-melt pots and alternate pairs of 4-cavity molds, using one pot to cast from while I return the sprue, top off, refill and flux the other. I can cast 100 pounds of. 45s in an 8 hour shift with a helper doing the sight culling and returning rejects to the remelt pile, fetching ingots, etc.

[GLL]

I agree with Rick.
Big money but the Master Pot + a Frozone PID are worth the investment !

Jerry

[Vulcan Bob]

"Good to see a high roller wander through". (Clint Eastwood, Outlaw Josey Wales)

By all means, the RCBS Pro Melt. I have two of the 110 VAC Pro Melts and have used them for years. I highly recommend them and RCBS customer service is second to none if there is a problem./beagle

What beagle said! I picked up a 30 year old Pro Melt (used once!) in a trade last year. First time I went to turn it on the switch broke, called RCBS to purchase a new switch and they sent me a new one no charge. Cant beat that kind of service. All has been well with the Pro Melt since and I really enjoy it compared to my old Lee pot.

[bretNorCal]

How much volume will you do? If money is no object you can always go for something like an older used ballisti-cast mark II (roughly $5k) which will make them for you (about 2400/hr).

For hand casting the lee 20 pound pro IV pot is not bad. About $60-70, bottom pour with 4 inches for your mould to fit in. I am less of a fan of the 10 pound one which is what my dad got. A big difference between the 10 and 20 pound is the area you have to drop ingots in, the 10 pound has much less room because of how the drain spout is angled in there.

[hermans]

I have the RCBS Pro Melt, have just added a PID controller, and now I think I have got the ultimate setup for my casting needs.

[dragon813gt]

If money is no object then there is only one option, a Magma Master Pot. When making large caliber bullets the twenty pounders drain fast. The extra capacity and two spouts speeds up production a lot.

[HATCH]

Automated master caster
Set you back about $2k total with one mold.
I don't regret it one bit.
This weekend it will be running at about 600 boolits a hr. While it is casting I will be loading about 600 boolits a hr.
When money isn't the object, time is....

[bretNorCal]

Is there an auto drive kit or did you have to source everything yourself?

[HATCH]

Is there an auto drive kit or did you have to source everything yourself?

there are several threads on it. No auto drive kit.. LOL

[Bret4207]

As an H+G 10 cav owner I understand the "wearing you out" part. First thing to do is make a rest for the mould. Then no matter what you get it's going to help. I'm not a BP fan by any means, but a 30-40 lbs pot makes life a lot easier. I look at 20 lbs pots as being for short runs of smaller boolits. For longer runs of big boolits of large moulds I love having 3-35 lbs of alloy right there. So whatever you get I'd err to the larger size rather than smaller.

As far as specifics, a BP is a giant sized dose of frustration for me. Others find a ladle to be the same. I simply make much better boolits with a ladle.

[jmort]

For me, the best are from Waage Electric

http://waage.thomasnet.com/viewitems/solder-pots-and-tanks/round-solder-pot?

[Airman Basic]

"Good to see a high roller wander through". (Clint Eastwood, Outlaw Josey Wales)
Wasn't that Matt Clark's line?:-?

[leadman]

Some info on the current RCBS Pro Melts. I have a 80s vintage pot that the thermostat went bad on. Called RCBS and they sent me a new one at no charge (great). Installed it and the temperature swing was almost 50 degrees (old one was about 10 deg.before it went bad). Called them and they sent another, same thing, called them again, tech said that is now their spec. I built a pid and am now happy.
The replacement thermostats were a different brand than the original. RCBS also had previously sent me an on/off switch for no charge so it does seem they warrant the pots forever, or just do it for great customer service.
There was a post about a new RCBS and the wide temperature swings not long ago also.
I measured the amount of pure lead a Lee #20 pot holds, just over #15.

[cbrick]

I'm really surprised, it's been two days since the OP asked for a bottom pour pot (10 cav mold and ladle casting is getting tougher), high volume pistol boolits, high quality melting pot - Money no object. Then in another post the OP states that he gets pleasure out of using quality tools.

So what am I surprised about? Two days and a mere TWO recommendation's for the LEE and one for the Waage ladle cast only pot. One post recommending to buy cast boolits as opposed to making them. Buy'em? Really?

When folks make a recommendation to a request such as the OP's do they actually read the post for what the OP is asking or simply make a suggestion of the one thing they have experience with? Kinda like . . . I'm really happy with xyz though I've never used anything else & know nothing about anything else therefore . . . you too will be happy with xyz.

The OP already has a Lyman pot so the recommendation is to STEP DOWN to a LEE. Really?

Rick

[cbrick]

The replacement thermostats were a different brand than the original. RCBS also had previously sent me an on/off switch for no charge so it does seem they warrant the pots forever, or just do it for great customer service.

Since I've seen it in print from RCBS in several different places over the years that electric parts have a one year warranty (same with Dillon & others) I would think they send out these parts because of a tremendous customer service program as opposed to they have to because of a warranty.

Rick

[jmort]

"I am leaning towards a bottom pour...

"When folks make a recommendation to a request such as the OP's do they actually read the post for what the OP is asking or simply make a suggestion of the one thing they have experience with?"

I did read the O/P. At no point did the O/P categorically rule out a quality melting pot that was not a bottom pour. Please explain how you arrived at your conclusion in light of the fact that the O/P never said he would not consider a melting pot sans bottom pour? Your opprobrium is misplaced, at least in regard to the Waage.

[jmort]

To O/P, I would look to get a commercial automated casting system, new or used, and cast up a large/lifetime supply and then sell off the equipment. In the fullness of time, if you need anything else, you could use the equipment you currently possess or get a Pro-Melt or whatever.

[Tazman1602]

"Good to see a high roller wander through". (Clint Eastwood, Outlaw Josey Wales)

By all means, the RCBS Pro Melt. I have two of the 110 VAC Pro Melts and have used them for years. I highly recommend them and RCBS customer service is second to none if there is a problem./beagle

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What Beagle said.................

Art

[dverna]

Gentlemen, I truly appreciate your opinions.

My current thoughts are two have two separate setups. I have an old 20lb Lyman that I ladle pour with and I just ordered a Frozone PID for it. I will use it to cast rifle bullets and continue ladle pouring as I think ladle pouring will yield a bit better quality (maybe because that is all I have ever done???). I do not need to cast a bazillion rifle bullets at a time.

The second set up would be either a Master Caster or a large bottom pour for pistol bullets. With the Master Caster I will need to sell off my multi-cavity molds and the other downside is that production rate with a two cavity mold is lower. Plus there is the changeover time - but I would typically cast 2000 bullets at a time so changeover is not that big a deal. Still torn on this. The Master pot gives me the large capacity BP and still allows use of 4-6 cavity molds plus a higher production rate with no changeover.

[cbrick]

Please explain how you arrived at your conclusion in light of the fact that the O/P never said he would not consider a melting pot sans bottom pour?

My conclusion was arrived at very simply by reading what the OP wrote, such as the following.


I am leaning towards a bottom pour only because I have physical issues that make long sessions of ladle pouring less likely as I continue to deteriorate. Don Verna


I currently have a Lyman 20 lb electric and with an H&G 10 cavity .38 WC mold. Don Verna

And your conclusion was what? Oh yeah . . . Ladle pour.

Rick