Went to the range today, need advice, with pictures

[pearcetopher]

Hi guys, went to the range tonight to try out my new load and mold combo (yes that rhymed)

I'm shooting a norinco CF98 4.4 inch barrel 9mm from a rest

My boolits are 356-125-2R tumble lubed with lee alox, not sized but checked to make sure none are below .356
My load is 3.5 grains titegroup length 1.10 inch with a medium crimp from the seating die
I use carb cleaner to clean the completed round after it is crimped

I fired 5 groups of 5 rounds starting at the 7 yard, 10 yard, 15 yard and 20 yard

Everything fed correctly and there were no jams. On this pistol anything longer than 1.10 wouldn't chamber and anything shorter would not feed. The only qualm I had was the rounds were being ejected roughly 12-15 feet from my location which I think is a little far.

I am fairly happy with the accuracy but there is a fair bit of leading in the barrel after only 20 rounds

after viewing the pictures what do you guys think? have I done alright?

7 Yard87062
10 Yard87063
15 Yard87064
20 Yard87065
87066

[Bzcraig]

Have you slugged your bore?

[pearcetopher]

Yes
Anything larger will not chamber

[bruce381]

try changeing lube may have to get a lyman type sizer

[Bzcraig]

I know you said you slugged your bore, what was it? What alloy are you using? What was your load. It seems your rounds are key holing too. Have you tried to shoot these without checks? Unless you are pushing these to +p speeds checks aren't necessary and may be a part of the problem. Are you using Lee FCD? Do you seat and crimp separately?

[detox]

The latest issue of Handloader magazine has a good article on casting for the 9mm. Mike V. uses Linotype alloy because it cast larger .357-.358 diameter and thinner wall Winchester brass for reliable chambering of some of the smaller chamber guns. The thinner brass will allow a larger diameter bullet to chamber easily. My RCBS 147 9mm bullet will drop from mould @ .358". He likes Bullseye powder and a certain Lyman bullet...i forget mould number.

I here that Glocks have a different type rifling and will not shoot cast bullets verywell like some other 9mm guns.

[Cmm_3940]

>norinco

I hate to jump to conclusions, can you give baseline example of how this bbl shoots with factory ammo?

[mdi]

I shoot cast lead in my 9mms and had quite a time getting everything right, but could not completely rid the gun of "bullet deposits". I kept reading/researching, and determined that the "leading" is quite possibly "antimony wash". No effect on accuracy, just doesn't look good...

[Bzcraig]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121737-Setting-up-for-boolits-in-a-new-9mm

This is a great thread that might help you out. There are numerous threads about 9mm loads that are very helpful though it will take some time to read them all. Maybe I got lucky but I read every one of these before I loaded my first boolit in my 9's and have not had a single 'issue' in any of them. I encourage you to type 9mm in 'search' and enjoy the reading.

[Walstr]

The latest issue of Handloader magazine has a good article on casting for the 9mm. Mike V. uses Linotype alloy because it cast larger .357-.358 diameter and thinner wall Winchester brass for reliable chambering of some of the smaller chamber guns. The thinner brass will allow a larger diameter bullet to chamber easily. My RCBS 147 9mm bullet will drop from mould @ .358". He likes Bullseye powder and a certain Lyman bullet...i forget mould number.

I here that Glocks have a different type rifling and will not shoot cast bullets verywell like some other 9mm guns.

Yup, but there are manuf that offer conventionally grooved bbls. to replace the OEM polygonal bbls.

[wv109323]

To me acceptable accuracy would be 4" or less at 20 yards (with a rest). It appears that the bullet is key holing. Is the weight of the bullets + or - .4 tenths of a grain? Try double lubing and a larger bullet,357-358 if it will fit the chamber.

[Photog]

Those targets are tough to tell if you have tumbling. Get some cardboard (IPSC or IDPA) targets to get a good reading. I've seen those light paper targets rip like that and the bullets were not tumbling.
Try finding some brass that will chamber that has not been sized, basically fireformed cases. load up a few with those, to see if you are sizing too much. Your die may be crushing the boolit and making it slightly undersized.

[NSP64]

All the above is good advice.

Take a empty shell (fired from your gun, unsized) and put one of your boolits in it. If it falls in, boolits can be bigger.

I shoot .360 out of my 9's ( 1 slugs .355, 1 slugs .358)

[AlaskanGuy]

Now that I have been on this forum for a while, It just surprises me how many times I see a leading issue arise.....

Break your 9mm down to steps.... These steps are not optional if you want some good shooting.

Step 1, Slug the bore... once you have that info, your journey begins with facts, not guesses.

Step 2, get your cast boolits, either cast your own (preferred method) or buy some.

Step 3, Lube and size your boolits to .001 or .002 over the size of your barrel... If you are using a tumble lube boolit, then Tumble Lube it.. Alox works fine for the 9mm boolit that you have chosen, and is what that particular boolit was designed for, but any standard lube that you wanna do is your choice.

Step 4, Work your Brass in whatever way that you do... I deprime and clean mine, but lots of folks dont, but you MUST inspect your brass before you start loading for it to look for issues, cracks, pressure signs, and so on.

Step 5, assemble the Rounds with standard reloading practice's....

If you follow these 5 steps, almost all of the issues that you read about concerning leading and problems with cast boolits just go away. without the 5 steps or if one of the steps is left out, then the problems begin...

AlaskanGurl and I used these 5 steps, and when we fired her Sig P225 9mm the first time with cast, the gun shot fine and was on target, but would only cycle about 3/4 of the time... but no leading and on target... Easily fixed the problem with another 1/2 grain of powder.. Now she shoots 100 rounds or more at a time with zero leading, and zero cycling problems.. cleanup is a breeze and takes just a couple of min using standard cleaning practices... Follow the steps sir, and enjoy your Gun.. :D

AlaskanGuy

[bhn22]

[QUOTE=My boolits are 356-125-2R tumble lubed with lee alox, not sized but checked to make sure none are below .356
My load is 3.5 grains titegroup length 1.10 inch with a medium crimp from the seating die
I use carb cleaner to clean the completed round after it is crimped

Everything fed correctly and there were no jams. On this pistol anything longer than 1.10 wouldn't chamber and anything shorter would not feed. The only qualm I had was the rounds were being ejected roughly 12-15 feet from my location which I think is a little far.

I am fairly happy with the accuracy but there is a fair bit of leading in the barrel after only 20 rounds[/QUOTE]

We really don't have any way to visualize your bullet seating length by numbers. 1.10 seems to be in the ballpark for 9mm, but your description on the crimp doesn't tell us which style of crimp you're using. I'm hoping a Lee FCD isn't in the process anywhere. So are you using a roll crimp, or a taper crimp?

Bore diameter has already been asked, and I share the concerns that your bullets are too small in diameter from both your account of bore leading, and the fact that your bullets appear to be striking the targets sideways. 3.5 gr of Titegroup seems to be in the ballpark, although I've never favored that powder for various reasons. Some like it however.

[Larry Gibson]

pearcetopher

Appears bullets of larger that .356 won't chamber in your handgun? Thus slugging the barrel and casting sizing larger won't work. At least that's how I read it?

What alloy are you using? if you are using COWWs or recovered range lead the addition of 2% tin will make for much better cast bullets and you won't get antimonal wash which is easily mistaken for leading.

Do you have the Lee sizer in .356? If not I suggest you get it, lube your bullets with LLA as per the directions, let them completely dry, run them through the .356 sizer, lube them again and let thoroughly dry before loading them.

Also I suggest trying 3.6, 3.8 and 4 gr of Titegroup with that bullet.

You don't mention the use of the Lee FCD. Some hate them and some love them. I've had no problems with either the 9mm or 45 ACO FCD and found them to be useful with barrels that take on .355 - .356 or .451 sized bullets in those cartridges. I'll add I only use them when necessary.

Larry Gibson

[RobS]

Good advice here and I'll add that a person with leading pull a loaded round and measure the bottom edge of the base of boolit again. Seating and crimping can sometimes change/swage the intended diameter of the boolit down to a smaller diameter.

[Boolseye]

Welcome to the forum!
I don't think that's keyholing, just tearing the paper a bit.
Decent results for your first efforts reloading a 9mm, and with a TL boolit, no less.
There's a lot on the subject on this forum–a good search or two will yield a trove of info.
I'll say what I've said to others starting with 9mm and a tumble lube boolit–PM me, and I'll send you the couple single-spaced page I've written on the subject.

I do recommend you stay open to the concept of moving to a different bullet mold, such as the Lee 356-120 TC (standard Lube Groove). TL 9mm boolits can be a pain.

[MtGun44]

Pull a seated boolit and make sure you aren't sizing the boolit down in the seating
process. Win brass is reported to have thinner necks, may be able to chamber with
.357.

Also the chambering issue may be too long seating and/or not enough taper crimp,
make sure this isn't your chambering issue.

Bill

[Mal Paso]

The bullet in the OP is Not a Tumble Lube Bullet.

Might I suggest pan lubing with a good conventional lube.

[Boolseye]

The bullet in the OP is Not a Tumble Lube Bullet.

Might I suggest pan lubing with a good conventional lube.

my bad. right you are. No wonder it's shootin' OK!

[popper]

That is NOT good accuracy for a full sized from a stand. You should be able to do much better. Your load is a min factory jacketed load. What is your alloy? That gun looks like a PX4 copy, rotating barrel. Seriously, the only way I could get the PX4 to stop leading was to powder coat and size (Lee push through), mine is a 40. It has a tight chamber & bore. Oversized always leaded, even coated. My XDs 9 is tight also, as are 2 others. Try the HiTek coating in red/copper. Green works (both my 40s & 3 XDs9's) but the other is rated for higher fps. ~$50 but does 50-80K boolits. Forget the GC - you don't need them, even with them you have leading?

[Char-Gar]

I guess I am snake bit, don't have the mojo or just plain don't know how to do it, but tumble lube has never worked well for me in the three or four time I have tried it...leading. Last time was Saturday...drats!