45 ACP loads

[ffgray]

New to this site, this is my first post. Could someone give me a good load to use for 45ACP using brass cases, Large pistol primers, 230 grain Round nose bullets and clays powder (it just says Clays on the can, not Universal Clays, I guess this is what they also call International Clays?)? Thanks for the info. I was thinking around starting at 3.5 grains.

[Sweetpea]

What bullet? Jacketed or cast?

There are 3 very different Clays powders... be sure which one you have, it seems like Clays.

I didn't have much luck with it behind 230 grains of boolit... Needed a slower powder.

How long have you been reloading, and do you have at least 1 loading manual?

Brandon

[ultramag]

If it just says Clays, it's Clays. Universal and International will say so. They are all three different powders and NOT interchangeable.

[2AMMD]

Best advice is to go to the powder manufacturer's site and look up the load data for that powder and caliber or buy a current reloading manual. The people here are very knowledgeable and helpful, but the manufacturers load data is published for a reason. Safe - tested loads for the powder and round you are loading for.

[ultramag]

Best advice is to go to the powder manufacturer's site and look up the load data for that powder and caliber or buy a current reloading manual. The people here are very knowledgeable and helpful, but the manufacturers load data is published for a reason. Safe - tested loads for the powder and round you are loading for.

Good idea!

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

[gray wolf]

I was thinking around starting at 3.5 grains.
And this thought came from where ? (( Load book would be a good answer. ))

[imashooter2]

Now that the standard beatings have been administered, Hodgdon lists 3.5 - 4.0 of Clays under a 230 grain lead round nose. Using the Lee 452-228-1R, I have gone from 3.2 for a very accurate and soft shooting steel load to 4.0 which turned out to be a safe, but not so accurate way over power factor experiment for USPSA. The 3.2 load functions 100% in a Kimber full size with a 16 pound recoil spring.

I see absolutely no issues with your proposed 3.5 grain starting load.

[ffgray]

Now that the standard beatings have been administered, Hodgdon lists 3.5 - 4.0 of Clays under a 230 grain lead round nose. Using the Lee 452-228-1R, I have gone from 3.2 for a very accurate and soft shooting steel load to 4.0 which turned out to be a safe, but not so accurate way over power factor experiment for USPSA. The 3.2 load functions 100% in a Kimber full size with a 16 pound recoil spring.

I see absolutely no issues with your proposed 3.5 grain starting load.

I think I'll start with the 3.2. I appreciate the straight answer.

[mdi]

Best advise is get a couple manuals. Depending on forums, gun shop gurus, range rats, or gun counter clerks for reloading data is foolish! With decent manuals even visiting powder manufacturers web sites is not necessary (and you can mark, write in, and ear mark printed manuals). Having a "how to" section along with explanations of powder, primers, and bullets is the safest, best way for a new reloader to go. What if I didn't like your name and told you to use 5.7 grains of that powder? Where would your fingers go when you tried that load?

No offence, but is your next question gonna be about OAL?

[MtGun44]

Clays is NOT capable of making full power loads with .45 ACP with 230 gr bullets or boolits. It is
too fast. OK for ALMOST full power, it will go 793 fps with a Hodgdon max of 4.0 gr. which
is at max pressure. When you consider that Titegroup makes 855 fps and 800X will make
939 fps with the same pressure, it should be clear that Clays is not a very well suited
powder for this cartridge.

I strongly recommend that you go to the powder manufacturer's FIRST for powder info,
and be careful loading data from some guy on the web unless you first verify that the
powder maker says it is OK.

I recommend a more suitable powder if you want to load across the board for .45 ACP, like
Titegroup, W231, Bullseye, Unique, 800x, etc. Lots of choices, and I have and use Clays, just not for
.45 ACP except an occasional batch of light loads because it builds pressure too fast in this
particular cartridge.

Bill

[gray wolf]

Sorry if my response was a little harsh or to much to the point.
Some of the more patient members explained that asking for load data is not the best thing to do.
I think a new member or anyone for that matter should at least indicate they have a load manual or have been to a powder manufacturers web sight, or possibly there is conflicting data about a particular load.

[JakeBlanton]

According to the Lee manual, 3.5 gr (716 fps) to 4.0 gr (793 fps), 16,800 CUP, 1.200" OAL.

I use Red Dot -- 4.5 gr (750 fps) to 5.1 gr (841 fps), 1.270" OAL.

[jonp]

Clays will work for target loads in 45acp like promo/red dot but is kinda fast as mtgun44 has said. Try something a little slower to make major with 230gr boolits

[jonp]

Sorry if my response was a little harsh or to much to the point.
Some of the more patient members explained that asking for load data is not the best thing to do.
I think a new member or anyone for that matter should at least indicate they have a load manual or have been to a powder manufacturers web sight, or possibly there is conflicting data about a particular load.
The data on clays is very limited although it will work with 45acp. Asking on a site like this about something someone has tried as a basis for your loading is prudent. Its how I came to having 20lbs of Promo on my shelf for target loads never having used it before

[JakeBlanton]

Clays will work for target loads in 45acp like promo/red dot but is kinda fast as mtgun44 has said. Try something a little slower to make major with 230gr boolits

Looking back, I don't see where the OP was shooting IPSC or USPSA and desired to make major. Regardless, it is definitely possible to make major with a 230 gr bullet with Red Dot / Promo, even if you use the old definition of major (175) instead of the current one (165).

Using the minimum loading in the Lee manual, you get a power factor of 164.68 for Clays which is just slightly less than the current minimum to make major whereas the maximum loading would give you a power factor of 182.39 which although it doesn't quite make major using the old definition, definitely makes major with the current definition of 165.

NOTE: I don't shoot IPSC or USPSA and got the power factor values from Wiki, so if they have changed from that, feel free to update the Wiki page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor_%28pistol%29

[imashooter2]

Looking back, I don't see where the OP was shooting IPSC or USPSA and desired to make major. Regardless, it is definitely possible to make major with a 230 gr bullet with Red Dot / Promo, even if you use the old definition of major (175) instead of the current one (165).

Using the minimum loading in the Lee manual, you get a power factor of 164.68 for Clays which is just slightly less than the current minimum to make major whereas the maximum loading would give you a power factor of 182.39 which although it doesn't quite make major using the old definition, definitely makes major with the current definition of 165.

NOTE: I don't shoot IPSC or USPSA and got the power factor values from Wiki, so if they have changed from that, feel free to update the Wiki page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor_%28pistol%29


Hodgdon's listed max of 4.0 grains of Clays under a 230 grain lead round nose made 189 power factor for me using the Lee 452-228-1R in a full size Kimber.

[BNE]

I have used Clays for my full size Kimber for years. It is actually my "go to" load for plinking.

230 grain round nose, 4.0 gr clays, Over all length ~1.265". For my gun this has been a VERY accurate and clean powder. I did not start out at 4.0 grains. My notes say I started at 3.6gr. I had some shots that would not cycle the action at that level.

All the advice given above is good. Regardless of how it may have come across, everyone just wants you to come home from shooting with all your parts intact!

I would only load a few magazines worth until you can try it out. It stinks to have 100 cartridges that won't cycle your gun.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I use H&G #34 and the RCBS 225 grain round nose in my 45ACP guns with 4.0-4.1 grains of Red Dot. MV and recoil are at best moderate, but accurate. No leading and clean burning. Could perhaps be loaded a bit warmer, but this load with both bullets does well as is and doesn't batter the guns. LLS

[h8dirt]

WST and VV N310 are my favorite 45 ACP powders. I've yet to find a 45 ACP that doesn't like ~4.4 grains behind a 200 grain boolit. Never tried them with a 230 grainer though.

[jonp]

Looking back, I don't see where the OP was shooting IPSC or USPSA and desired to make major. Regardless, it is definitely possible to make major with a 230 gr bullet with Red Dot / Promo, even if you use the old definition of major (175) instead of the current one (165).

Using the minimum loading in the Lee manual, you get a power factor of 164.68 for Clays which is just slightly less than the current minimum to make major whereas the maximum loading would give you a power factor of 182.39 which although it doesn't quite make major using the old definition, definitely makes major with the current definition of 165.

NOTE: I don't shoot IPSC or USPSA and got the power factor values from Wiki, so if they have changed from that, feel free to update the Wiki page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor_%28pistol%29

Your right, the op did not mention power factor. I got it from imashooter2's response. My mistake. Perhaps I should have said that if you do load for major with Red Dot/Promo you will not have much leeway to tailor your load.
I stand corrected!

[Tazman1602]

Never used Clays my man but for cast OR jacketed in my .45's Bullseye is my goto powder. Some BE behind a 200 grain MIHEC HP is just dandy for a cast load.

For jacketed it's almost always BE, but when I was pin shooting I used an AWFUL lot of Unique behind cast. Red dot is also pretty fair with cast.

I didn't mention weights of grains because it really is best for you to go to a manual and work up your own loads in your own guns, just a safety factor.

Now some people think I'm nuts, but when I work up a new load in a caliber I'm not intimate with I consult a MINIMUM of three different manufacturers manuals from a spread of 40 years of manuals before I throw a single grain. Every couple of years I buy another new powder manual as they're released and add to the "Library" as my wife calls it.

35 years of reloading can get you a helluva bunch of manuals man!

Good shooting and be safe!

Art

[geargnasher]

I think I'll start with the 3.2. I appreciate the straight answer.

Ok,you got what you were looking for in that post, but you also had a LOT of responses addressing what you NEEDED, even though you don't want to hear it. As a reloader, you NEED to educate yourself and not ask to be spoon-fed loading recipes. If you can't come up with a safe starting load on your own, you are seriously lacking in the education and data resources that are necessary to have before you start playing with explosives. This is BASIC.

Gear

[MtGun44]

+1 on geargnasher

Bill

[snoopy]

All good advice, I suspect op is new to reloading as am I. HOGDON puts reloading data on the labels and as someone w/o much experience and with not much of a selection on the shelves, he probably read the label and grabbed it. I did the same, I did consult 2 manuals before I loaded however. Nothind wrong with some positive reinforcement, there is a learning curve in everything we do. I found the 3.5 gr/230 tc very accurate with my Star pd, at least to my ability. Is it the best load for 45acp, I doubt it, but HEY, I RELOADED MY OWN AMMO WOOHOO! Sometimes we use our electronic gadgets because they are so handy, and instead of going slow and researching, we ask questions, just did it myself a day or two ago on an alloy thread/question. Anyway my 2cents.

[Char-Gar]

New to this site, this is my first post. Could someone give me a good load to use for 45ACP using brass cases, Large pistol primers, 230 grain Round nose bullets and clays powder (it just says Clays on the can, not Universal Clays, I guess this is what they also call International Clays?)? Thanks for the info. I was thinking around starting at 3.5 grains.

Ahh, somebody else to cheap to buy a loading manual or to lazy to go to the powder manufactures web site. Also willing to trust life, limb and eyesight to a bunch of strangers rather than proper pressure tested data.

Don't bother chiding me for being rude as I won't see it. But if it will make you feel better, flail away.

[mdi]

OK, starting low to work up. Good. But, why are you starting .3 gr. under suggested starting load? The starting loads are there for a purpose...