Is this leading?

[el roboto]

Sorry guys complete noob here working on and shooting my first loads. Does this stuff coating my rifleing look like lead? Or could it be the LLA/JPW lube? Sorry for the crappy cell phone pic.

86218

[AlaskanGuy]

Time to get the scrub brush out... Looks like leading to me... Most common ways to get that is to much powder, or a bad fitting bullet.. Alloy can also be a factor... Get the brushes out...

[el roboto]

The reason im wondering if its the lube and not lead is I seem to have a good amount of it on the barrel throat too.

86220

[jcameron996]

It is hard to tell from your picture. Try running a patch soaked with Hoppes #9 through the barrel and let it sit for a few minutes. Then swab it out with clean patches. If the streaks are gone, its probably not lead.

[el roboto]

patched a couple times. It did not remove all of the material but it removed a lot of it. Sorry i just cant get good photos with this phone and my camera is dead as usual. I do know that brushing will remove all of the material.

86225

[el roboto]

Another post patching picture. Hard to get good pics of this 86227

[AlaskanGuy]

I am pretty sure its lead, but it is hard to tell for sure. If you could use a real didital camera, that would help. Sure looks like lead to me.... If it is lube, i would be removed with a standard copper barrel brush pretty easily in my experience. It it is lube, it is dang hard, time to switch to johnsons paste wax and bee's wax 50/50 with a colorful crayon thrown in for color.

[el roboto]

I brushed the barrel then ran a patch through. This is the materials appearance on the patch. It does sparkle some when the light hits it, im not sure if the excess unique powder in the barrel could be reflecting or it it is in fact tiny lead specs

86229

[el roboto]

I am pretty sure its lead, but it is hard to tell for sure. If you could use a real didital camera, that would help. Sure looks like lead to me.... If it is lube, i would be removed with a standard copper barrel brush pretty easily in my experience. It it is lube, it is dang hard, time to switch to johnsons paste wax and bee's wax 50/50 with a colorful crayon thrown in for color.

The copper barrel brush will remove the material. The lube im using is the Johnsons paste wax/ Lee allox and mineral spirits. The last pic is taken with a digital camera. The problem im having is if i insert a bore light into the end of the bore it lights the barrel completly and you cant see the material slicking the rifleing, it causes it to appear like a clean barrel. So im having trouble getting pics with natural light in the end of the barrel. What would happen if I ran a dozen or so unlubed rounds through the gun? Guess that would let me know for sure if it was the lube or not.

[waksupi]

Looks clean enough to me. Get it spotless, you will have to shoot a bunch to recondition the bore. I have no idea how long it has been since I've cleaned any of my barrels. Years for some, I'm sure.

[realllynow]

it looks like it is slight leading prolly because of not enough lube.
ask me how i know:D

[el roboto]

it looks like it is slight leading prolly because of not enough lube.
ask me how i know:D

The first time it happened I single lubed. Then for todays bullets I double lubed to where my bullets where almost bronze to try and eliminate weather or not it was underlubbed leading.

[el roboto]

I've got metallic looking grey gunk on my bolt face and even some places in my slide. Im almost convinced its lube all in my gun.

[geargnasher]

The real question is how does it shoot? If that's a little lead or antimony wash, and it doesn't keep building up to an unacceptable level where accuracy goes south, don't worry about it. If it isn't any worse than that after, say, 1-200 rounds, I'd forget about it. Run a patch through it once in a while and call it done.

Gear

[runfiverun]

that does look like some leading to me.
the lube isn't to blame..
look to diameter for the real culprit.

[el roboto]

The only thing comfusing me is the metallic gray gunk on the bolt face. How could lead get there

[JayinAZ]

You might not have belled your cases quite enough and shaved a lead ring while seating the bullet. If not noticed and left hanging on the case mouth when you shot the I think it could stick anywhere in the barrel.

[el roboto]

Nope i made sure that didint happen im inspecting these cratridges so much im loading maybe 50 an hr. Im being veey carwful since these r my first rounds

[runfiverun]

gas cutting.
and the cases are work hardened they ain't sealing.
try another bunch of brass and see what happens.

[45-70 Chevroner]

The copper barrel brush will remove the material. The lube im using is the Johnsons paste wax/ Lee allox and mineral spirits. The last pic is taken with a digital camera. The problem im having is if i insert a bore light into the end of the bore it lights the barrel completly and you cant see the material slicking the rifleing, it causes it to appear like a clean barrel. So im having trouble getting pics with natural light in the end of the barrel. What would happen if I ran a dozen or so unlubed rounds through the gun? Guess that would let me know for sure if it was the lube or not.

Please! do not shoot unlubed boolits, you will regret it, you will have a lot of leading. I have heard of guys shooting unlubed boolits in rifles, but only with COW (cream of wheat) over the powder to the base of the boolit and they were not getting leading.

[psmokey]

Thanks for the post Learned a lot.

[el roboto]

You might not have belled your cases quite enough and shaved a lead ring while seating the bullet. If not noticed and left hanging on the case mouth when you shot the I think it could stick anywhere in the barrel.

I am belling the cases as much as I can however I may be over taper crimping. I inspected the rounds and it does seem like after tape crimping I am sometimes ending up with some small slivers of lead just inside the case mouth. I am wondering if I am blowing these slivers down the barrel. I taper crimped until the round would easily fall out of the barrel, per the instructions I read from another user.

[ultramag]

I am belling the cases as much as I can however I may be over taper crimping. I inspected the rounds and it does seem like after tape crimping I am sometimes ending up with some small slivers of lead just inside the case mouth. I am wondering if I am blowing these slivers down the barrel. I taper crimped until the round would easily fall out of the barrel, per the instructions I read from another user.

Are you seating and crimping in one step? If so, what you are most likely seeing is a little lead shaved and disturbed at the very end of the presses upstroke. I would try crimping in a separate step. Adjust your crimp to measure .468-.470" at the case mouth. Check that with your chamber as a gauge of course. (plunk test)

[el roboto]

Are you seating and crimping in one step? If so, what you are most likely seeing is a little lead shaved and disturbed at the very end of the presses upstroke. I would try crimping in a separate step. Adjust your crimp to measure .468-.470" at the case mouth. Check that with your chamber as a gauge of course. (plunk test)

Nope I am seating with a redding seating only die and crimping with a redding taper crimp die. My case mouth measures .472 I am setting the taper crimp to allow me to plunk the bullet in then upturn the barrel and allow the round to slide effortlessly out.

[btroj]

What size bullets? Undersized will do this.

[Dan Cash]

You have lead. Try a tight fitting patch soaked in turpentine. Patch should be tight enough you need to tap rod with a mallet. the lead will come out. fairly painless.

You bullet is likely too small; check with bore slug. Bee wax 50/50 by weight with vegetable oil (canola is best) or neatsfoot oil (not good for long term storage of loaded ammo) is a far better choice for lube than Liquid Alox or Johnson paste wax.

[Bret4207]

I am belling the cases as much as I can however I may be over taper crimping. I inspected the rounds and it does seem like after tape crimping I am sometimes ending up with some small slivers of lead just inside the case mouth. I am wondering if I am blowing these slivers down the barrel. I taper crimped until the round would easily fall out of the barrel, per the instructions I read from another user.

If you are over crimping you may be reducing the diameter of your boolits. Under size boolits are the first ingredient in any recipe for leading! Go with as light a crimp as you can, or pull couple and see if they are the same size as before loading.

[Lance Boyle]

That's what I was thinking, got a perfect and careful set up all the way, right up to you crimp or over crimp and make your bullet a couple thousandths smaller in the crimp die. BTDT.

Try taking one of your loads and with a kinetic puller, remove a bullet and measure diameter. If it's still .452-3 or whatever your bore calls for then keep looking. If it's now .451 ish you know you need to back off your crimp die.

[Bret4207]

Why aren't you out chasing hunters this AM Tommy?!!

[el roboto]

I slugged the bore which was 452, bullets are unsized as they are falling out at 453. I will try pulling a bullet and measureing it, problem is, I have them crimped just to where they will fall easily out of the barrel, if I am over crimping and forced to crimp less they will not fall out on their own when the barrel is turned upside down.

[el roboto]

Today im going to try and cast a few bullets out of some soft roofing flashing a buddy brought me. Perhaps my strait air cooled WW alloy is to hard.

[Larry Gibson]

Today im going to try and cast a few bullets out of some soft roofing flashing a buddy brought me. Perhaps my strait air cooled WW alloy is to hard.

Rather than adding lead you might add 2% tin to your "strait air cooled WW alloy". It will be a better alloy then and if antimonal wash is part of the problem it will eliminate that. You also might want to try the LLA straight and applied as per Lee's directions. It also may be the home made lube (The lube im using is the Johnsons paste wax/ Lee allox and mineral spirits" that is the cause of the leading problem.

Before we get all the "that lube works for me" posts let us consider that what one person mixes very well may not be what the OP has mixed via internet instructions no matter how diligently he attempted to follow the instructions. Obviously the lube is not working for the OP. LLA is a consistently made product that does perform very well when used as directed.

Larry Gibson

[mdi]

Not using a Lee Factory Crimp Die, are you? If your bullets are .453" they may expand the case a bit and when they are post seating sized they may be swaged a bit making them too small for the barrel. I had a new 9mm that exhibited the same leading, but I had to go with a bit harder alloy (to mebbe 16-18 BHN), sized to .358", and lubed with Lar's Caranuba Red. I didn't see you mention what caliber/gun you're shooting.

I use alox on occasion and 45-45 10 and so far haven't seen any noticeable alox deposits in the barrels, and the "fastest" cast bullets I've shot were in my 30-30. I also pan lube and push through size a lot of my bullets.

[el roboto]

Not using a Lee Factory Crimp Die, are you? If your bullets are .453" they may expand the case a bit and when they are post seating sized they may be swaged a bit making them too small for the barrel. I had a new 9mm that exhibited the same leading, but I had to go with a bit harder alloy (to mebbe 16-18 BHN), sized to .358", and lubed with Lar's Caranuba Red. I didn't see you mention what caliber/gun you're shooting.



I use alox on occasion and 45-45 10 and so far haven't seen any noticeable alox deposits in the barrels, and the "fastest" cast bullets I've shot were in my 30-30. I also pan lube and push through size a lot of my bullets.

Sorry its 230 grain .45acp loaded with 5.7 and 6.0 grains of unique. Im using a redding crimp die. I avoided the factory crimp die because of the swaging reports. The gun is a springfield mil-spec.

[el roboto]

just shot off another 100 rounds, this is the barrel. The rifling still appears to be slicked with the material. I've yet to see the accuracy suffer.

86300

[el roboto]

To me it would seem like gas cutting would leave material inside of the grooves rather then slicking the rifling. If the bullet is to small for diameter its going to be to small inside of the grooves which is where the gas would escape and cup wouldnt it?

[el roboto]

just reslugged and confirmed barrel is 452 mold is dropping 453

[DrCaveman]

No accuracy suffer, no problem

I fretted about a similar thing in my sti spartan, with similar bore and boolit dimensions

Decided to stop worrying about it, proceeded to clean my barrel as normal after a few hundred rounds shot

It has never shot better than it does now

[el roboto]

No accuracy suffer, no problem

I fretted about a similar thing in my sti spartan, with similar bore and boolit dimensions

Decided to stop worrying about it, proceeded to clean my barrel as normal after a few hundred rounds shot

It has never shot better than it does now

Definatly no accuracy problems. After 100 rounds when I starting thinking accuracy was being affected,I took a rest and shot a 1" group at 5 yards. Turned out the accuracy problem was me :oops: After pouring over every leading picture I can find I am almost sure its not lead but perhaps antimony wash. The stuff just doesnt act like lead. Its crumbly and it isnt that hard to remove and its the same amount weather I shoot 20 or 100 rounds.

[Larry Gibson]

The stuff just doesnt act like lead. Its crumbly and it isnt that hard to remove and its the same amount weather I shoot 20 or 100 rounds.

Sounds just like antimony wash to me.

Larry Gibson

[btroj]

I am in agreement with Larry. Not leading, just antimony wash.

[mdi]

I am in agreement with Larry. Not leading, just antimony wash.
Now that's interesting. In my case I was shooting wheel weight alloy and that has antimony in. Mebbe that was my 9mm's "problem"...

Thanks fellers.

[62chevy]

I am in agreement with Larry. Not leading, just antimony wash.

Okay how much tin does one need to add to lead to counter act the antimony wash.

[Wild Bill 7]

Wrap a chore-boy around a smaller caliber brush that is worn out. Make it tight and put your choice of bore cleaner on the brush and your problem will go away. I use that method only now and it is fast. I got this tip on Wilson's website a long time ago. One of the best tips I have ever learned.