Cream of wheat in vintage 38-55

[SgtDog0311]

I've got a 115yr old Marlin Model 1893 in 38-55 I'm starting to work with. Green Lizzard (of this forum) gave me some Lee 250gr plain base bullets before I invest in a mold. Right now I'm trying to eliminate leading. It slugs at .3785 and trying bullets sized to .379 and .380 so far. But my question is about filler and pressure. I'm wanting to try some cream of wheat without pushing pressures. 16.5 gr of 4759 without fill produce just under 1200fps. So would a CoW filler be safe over this or be too risky? Thought to measure the delta in similar loads with and without CoW in my more modern 375 but would be interested in comments in the mean time. Appreciate feedback with anyone using CoW. Thanks

[John Boy]

If it says "smokeless powder steel", or something similar on the barrel, then a minimum smokeless load ... WITHOUT a filler that will increase the psi
Otherwise, 45grs of Fg black powder
PS: I never recommend a smokeless load for a vintage rifle with the caliber designed to be loaded with black powder. Especially when it is obvious that the poster is not an experienced reloader

[45-70 Chevroner]

What John Boy said.
The load you are using is well below the minimum for 4759. I don't use fillers at all. I think your leading problem lies inside the barrel its self.

[SgtDog0311]

Thanks for the reply John Boy and 45-70 Chevroner, this barrel is a Smokless. I've got a 32-40 that is BP but no leading problems there; and wouldn't entertain filler there anyway. This 38-55 bore is excellent for its age, even in the throat. Tapping a bullet into the lands from the chamber and then removing shows no mismatch in size and shows gradual swaging as opposed to anything abrupt or any lead shaving, with a good seal judging from inspection. I'm .002 oversize and using the same lube that I use elsewhere with no issues. I read cautions about pressure but no quantifying of the bump. Dacron usually produces an additional 50fps in my experience but I've not chronie'd the delta with a more solid filler.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I think your load of 16.5gr of 4759 will be ok with a filler but just to the base of the boolit. The minimum load for 4759 in my Lyman #47 says 21.0gr. I have read on here that COW will stop leading. I haven't tried it though.

[MarkP]

Try some Trailboss 7 grs will keep pressures low and fill the case up to a decent load density.

[SgtDog0311]

Mark, thanks. I'm thinking Trailboss would keep "velocities" low, not so much "pressures". It's the filler info I'm interested in anyway, more than a powder change at this juncture. Just loaded ten rounds for the not so vintage 375 (5rds not filled and 5 rds filled - 16.5gr SR 4759 under 11gr cream of wheat - right to base of bullet). When it quits raining I'll chronograph and that will be the basis for going forward or not with the 38-55.

I thought this post might flush out a reference if anyone has ever graphed pressure curves using CoW and might know of spikes hiding in there somewhere. Or maybe just the bump i might expect in velocity. Or any other caution. I often fail to be clear!!

FWIW, I won't be leaving this set long so not worried about a solid mass forming from the CoW- just trying to eliminate some causes right now since I'm just starting on this one. Appreciate your taking the time.

[bbqncigars]

I've had good results with 17gr of 2400 under a 250gr boolit in my non-smokeless 1893. No filler, just fun.

[SgtDog0311]

I've had good results with 17gr of 2400 under a 250gr boolit in my non-smokeless 1893. No filler, just fun.. I'll make note of that bbq. I like 2400 and will no doubt give it a whirl once I've solved the leading.

[SgtDog0311]

Figured I ought to post results since I posses the question here.

I did test the velocities in the 375 it get an idea what the vintage 38-55 was going to sustain. And glad for Green Lizzard's cautions since the velocity increase was 256fps on like loads of 4759, measuring averages. That is enough of a delta to warrant a reduction in loads. Still have one more size change before I resort to the CoW but at least now I have an idea of pressure changes I'm likely to experience.

[Muskyhunter1]

I shoot 2 old 38 55's. A Mod 94 and a Marlin 36. The powder that is just awesome for me is IMR 4227. I keep it on the light side and it is just a fun caliber to shoot and really accurate.

Good luck.

[SgtDog0311]

Been a while since I posted this and just now seeing your post Muskyhunter1... Thanks! I've shot a bit of the IMR 4227 since this was posted and like it quite well myself. I think the last batch of 32-20 was loaded with that. That load shot about equal to 2400 for accuracy.

[webfoot10]

I use 38/55 loads in my 375 winchester . 16 grs imr 4759 with a few Rice Krispies to fill the case.
Seat the bullet and crush the cereal. Keeps the barrel clean and there is no pressure issues. The
rice krispies crush to a powder and blow out the barrel. I get no leading and is very accurate. It
will tend to polish the bore. Try a few and see how you like them.
webfoot10

[rbertalotto]

I shoot a bunch of 38-55 rifles. I've won a couple 200 yard off-hand matches with 9g Unique, a 3/4" X 3/4" single ply of toilet paper pushed over the powder with a pencil and a 250g - 265g lead bullet (depending on rifle and bore diameter)

This load is stupid accurate in any of my 38-55 rifles. And recoil is like a 22 magnum! Very plesant to shoot.

[Virginia John]

You could also try oatmeal. It works well.

[SgtDog0311]

Appreciate the load & filler suggestions Fellahs. Occurs to me how funny it would be to watch a newcomer's face as he read these suggestions. He'd be wondering "WTH, these people put all kinds of breakfast food in their guns"???

Nothin is ever completely wrung out but I've shot all the powders mentioned in the last few posts since this thread's start. Might give the rice crispies and oatmeal a try though and a lighter 4759 load as well.

For this particular rifle IMR 4227 and 4198 (AND NO FILLER) gave me the best targets. These targets were right around 1375fps but I'd like to be 1250-1300. My machine and Castboolits are not shaking hands well but I'll try and post the targets from the shoot-off between those two powders.
124075

124074

And now I've got a do-over but this time with a Ballard in 38-55 and 4 more inches of barrel. Should be interesting to see how the loads compare.