a few newbie questions..

[goste]

Hello all,

Long time lurker, really like the vibes, on this forum. As a long time shooter, and a long time reloader, I'm new to casting bullets. I have loaded thousand's of cast bullets, but have never cast any.

I want to start casting, for a Makarov pistol. I have watched 9x18 go from $2.50 a box, up to crazy.....I don't have a Mak mould yet. I have some moulds, given to me some years ago, but I don't know what they are. they are at home, and I'm not, at the moment, but if I post the name, and number of the moulds later, maybe someone can tell me what they are...:-D

Anyways,





1. when ya'll flux the lead in the pot, what type of flux do you use? Is it like plumbers flux?

2. I know what antimoney(sp) is, but what form is it in, and where do you get it?

3.when you add tin to lead, what form of tin is it? is it a form of solder?

4. I have a bunch of wheel weights, will these be hard enough, for a 9x18?

5. when you drop from a mould into water, is it ice water, or tap water?

Thanks in advance guys.........Caspar

[medic44]

Welcome, I can help w/ some of these.

1) Many things can be used for flux. Part of it depends on where you working at. I use candle wax because I work outside. Many of the fluxes produce smoke. Sometimes it helps to burn the smoke off. If you are worried about smoke and flames inside then you might consider Marvel lux (sp). Be careful w/ Marvel Lux because if you leave the container open it will attract moisture and that can cause the hot lead to splatter. Some guys use wood shavings or saw dust. Check out some threads on fluxing.

3) solder is one source of tin another is linotype

4) If you keep you fps slow there is no reason to need to harden WW

5) tap water will work fine. BE SURE to keep the water from splashing into the molten lead or you will cause an explosion and splatter molten lead all over the place. This is known as a visit from the Tinsel Fairy. Do this and you might get a visit from me to help w/ the burns.

hope this helps some Medic 44

[mooman76]

Welcome Goste

I can answer a couple of your questions.

1. You can use about anything that burns for fux. Allot of people use parafine, beeswax or even sawdust. You can also if you choose buy commercial fluxes.

2. Antimony is found in other metals and added to your lead to harden it. It is already in wheel weights and used lead bullets you might find from gun ranges. It also helps the lead fill out the mould better and I think it is also in chilled magnum shot. Chilled magnum shot does have arsinic in it which also helps harden the lead.

3.Tin is in many scrap forms but sometimes difficult to find. Tin soider, old toothpaste tubes, the metal seals on wine bottles sometimes. and Linotype which has a high content of Tin and antimony mixed with lead.

4. Wheel weights (WW's) are hard enough or can be made hard enough for most pistol bullets and rifle bullets too if you don't try to push them too hard and you can add fillers and gas checks to help push them harder or harden them with additives or the whater drop which brings us to your last ?

5. When you water drop it just needs to be cool tap water. I believe someone here tried ice water and reported little or no difference beween the two.

Happy casting!

[waksupi]

If it is carbon base, it is flux. Some say cats work well.

Water on top of your pot is no problem. Water below the surface, brings big problems, fast.

Welcome aboard!

[corvette8n]

I also have E. German Mak but have yet to shoot cast, I have been thinking about the Lee mold, cheap enough to get started with, I currently only have Lee alum molds and they are easy to cast with. You can mail order from Midway, Midsouth, Natchez etc.

[Topper]

I too have an E. German and use the Lee mold.
Only reason to add tin to your wheel weights is to get a better pour/fill, but it really isn't necessary if the temp is right.
I've used paraffin, candle wax, and beeswax in the past, but have learned from the experience offered on this forum to use plain saw dust. (I cast outdoors so smoke is not an issue).
One small plus about saw dust is it doesn't flame up on you like the waxes do.
I have a saeco sizer, but don't even use it for the cast Makarov boolits.
I tumble lube them twice and load.
Try one or two before you load a bunch and make sure they chamber.
If so, you can save time and skip the sizing;-)
Oh, be sure to do a search for "speed casting".

[Buckshot]

.............Hey Goste, welcome to the board. So far as that Mak goes and the price of the ammo, I'll bet that whatever else you shoot has gone up that much or even more. I might as well add my dos centavos to the questions:

1. when ya'll flux the lead in the pot, what type of flux do you use? Is it like plumbers flux?

I'd suppose it's 'like' plumbers flux, as I imagine plumbers flux is for the same reason. That is, to eliminate crap, crud, and rejoin the metallics to the melt that have oxidized. I've personally used Marvelux, boolit lube, candle wax and parrafin which may be redundant, as that might be what the candles were made of :-)

2. I know what antimoney(sp) is, but what form is it in, and where do you get it?

Antimony is most easily added to your melt via an already alloyed mix containing it. Linotype is the most common highest antimony content alloy around. Since this is used in hot typeset machines, and technology passed this by a couple decades ago so it's becoming scarce. Antimony by itself melts at a temp much higher then any of us EVER run our lead alloys at. As a consequence you cant just drop a hunk of antimony in a pot of lead and swirl it around.

Bill Ferguson, "The Antimony Man" in Sierra Vista, AZ sells powdered antimony and a special flux for use in adding it to a lead melt. But then you might have to add a bit of tin, too!

3.when you add tin to lead, what form of tin is it? is it a form of solder?

Solder is the most readily obtained as you can run down to the local do it yourself store and pick some up. It's currently fearfully expensive (comparatively. Thankfully it doesn't take much to improve the fluidity of most any junk/scrap lead you run across.

4. I have a bunch of wheel weights, will these be hard enough, for a 9x18?

Should be just fine. Just remember, there are no federal standards for WW metal nor are they a "Glamour" item, so the makers aren't going top ritz them up above the minimum it will take to do the job. Up until the '70's they were more better :-)

5. when you drop from a mould into water, is it ice water, or tap water?

It could be ice water. Wouldn't hurt anything. I don't know how much more hardening would take place with water 40* cooler then room temp. I don't water drop, but maybe some guys who do have checked this out?

Now, we have to start casting for those other guns you mentioned having, If it's all going to hang on that 9x18 we're going to run out of material real quick!

...............Buckshot

[38 Super Auto]

...splatter molten lead all over the place. This is known as a visit from the Tinsel Fairy.
Medic 44

I have been visited by the tinsel fairy, although, I didn't know her name at the time.

I wanted to add w.r.t. fluxing: I have used marvelux - in my experience, it tends to be hygroscopic (it will attract water). I have used sawdust (pine resin is good flux), and paraffin.

Paraffin works for me, because it leaves very little behind. Gulf wax in your grocery store is a good source. I place a small piece in the lead pot and immediately light it off. This will greatly reduce smoke. If you don't light it, it will very likely flash. You'll feel like an alchemist as you stir your flaming vat of molten metal (use a glove)

If you're stirring it and it flashes, keep your eye out for the tinsel fairy...


:coffee:

[Char-Gar]

Fluxing can be nasty, smoky and bad smelling work. I have found Pat Marlin's California Flake which is just pine shavings to produce far less nasty stuff than others fluxs I have used. I stir the pot with a 3/4 wood dowl which also help the flux.

[Single Shot]

See this link: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=243542#post243542

I just posted some comments there and a zipped file of information.

Just look for my avatar to find the files quickly but be sure to read the whole post.

You will find that this is such a great site that there is usually many answers to a request.

Welcome aboard. And stay away from the "Tinsel Fairy"

I wear a leather welders apron, gloves, and a clear face shield for casting. Just in case.

And dip your fluxing tools into the hot lead slowly because some fluxes attract water. This can cause the hardened flux on a cold tool to contain enough moisture to boil as it is inserted into the hot lead.

No problem if this happens on the surface but if you just shove a cold tool under the surface it can toss the hot lead out of the pot.

[Wayne Smith]

You've got some really good answers to your very specific questions. Underlying these questions I sense insecurity around casting for the 9x18. Don't worry, wheel weights are fine and you don't have to water drop. The only mold for the 9x18 that I know of is the Lee. The round shoots a .366" bullet, not a .357". I'm casting and loading for two Mak's and for a CZ82. My only problem is finding the brass after shooting!

[9.3X62AL]

I can't add much to the good info above, other than to agree wholeheartedly with its content.

I have well over 15 years with the Mak, scamming an East German one right after they landed in the early 1990's. No bullets were available for the caliber at that time, so I got a RCBS 100 grain mould to top off the 9 x 19 cases I trimmed to length and expanded to fit the .365" boolits. The RCBS die set and the RCBS sizer die were all "limited production" at the time, and priced accordingly. A tungsten-carbide sizer die came along a few years later, and later still component brass became available. Starline is best of breed in that category.

I think the 9 x 18 Makarov is one of the finest blow-back service pistols ever designed. It is basically a Walther PP on steroids, and its cartridge is the 380 ACP with a gym membership. 380 ACP data +10% is the usual recipe for loads in a given bullet weight in the respective calibers, and in most loads a 380 ACP mid-range powder weight will function the pistol reliably and keep ejected casings within the toll-free dialing area.

In my pistol, the RCBS castings have shot better than any jacketed bullet I've tried. Be advised that Sierra bullets for this caliber run .363"--Speers are at .364"--and Hornady bullets are .365".

[goste]

Thanks all, for the welcome, and the expert advice...Many thanks also, for all the safety tips....I will adhere to them..:-D

All my questions were answered WAY beyond what I was expecting.

Later, I'll try casting for some other calibers. I own 4 Bulgy makarovs, and have been doing all my pistol shooting with them for the last couple years.

anyways, thanks again. you guys are awesome..:drinks:

[Ghugly]

I can't add much to the good info above, other than to agree wholeheartedly with its content.

I have well over 15 years with the Mak, scamming an East German one right after they landed in the early 1990's. No bullets were available for the caliber at that time, so I got a RCBS 100 grain mould to top off the 9 x 19 cases I trimmed to length and expanded to fit the .365" boolits. The RCBS die set and the RCBS sizer die were all "limited production" at the time, and priced accordingly. A tungsten-carbide sizer die came along a few years later, and later still component brass became available. Starline is best of breed in that category.

I think the 9 x 18 Makarov is one of the finest blow-back service pistols ever designed. It is basically a Walther PP on steroids, and its cartridge is the 380 ACP with a gym membership. 380 ACP data +10% is the usual recipe for loads in a given bullet weight in the respective calibers, and in most loads a 380 ACP mid-range powder weight will function the pistol reliably and keep ejected casings within the toll-free dialing area.

In my pistol, the RCBS castings have shot better than any jacketed bullet I've tried. Be advised that Sierra bullets for this caliber run .363"--Speers are at .364"--and Hornady bullets are .365".

So far, I've yet to find anyone who's tried a Mak that didn't like it. My only gripe about reloading for it has been the cost of the brass. Not that it's any more expensive than any other brass, it's just hard to find used and I hate crawling around the range trying to find that last, lost case. Did you find a quick, easy method for trimming 9X19 brass? I can get 9X19 by the bucket for almost nothing. If I could trim the stuff easily, it would really make my shooting a lot more pleasant.

[nicholst55]

Dad gum it! Reading this thread is causing me to want to start casting and loading for my East German Makarov! And that's the LAST thing I need to do, is to add yet another cartridge to the mix!

I rationalized against loading for it so far because I seldom shoot it and ammo has been relatively inexpensive for it until just recently. Now though, I don't know... After all, what's another set of dies, another mould, another sizing die, and another box of brass?

Next thing y'all will have me loading for my Walther PP .32 ACP!