Need your opinion on .22 PB stuff.

[fido]

I’m looking at casting some .22 cal gopher getters, yote getters etc.
I am experienced in the larger non gas checked stuff, it will be my first try at a gas checked bullet.
I’m looking at:
225646
225438
225415 moulds.

Which one is the most accurate In a REM 22-250 Heavy barrel and a mini 14. Yes I know the mini isn’t very accurate but it makes up for it in number of projectiles. O since we are on the topic has anyone made a brass catcher for the mini. I hate looking for brass.
Is a gas check seater needed? I use an RCBS sizer. Dies? .224 or .225? Havent sluged yet.
What speed can I run these at? I take it they will have to be down loaded?
Anyone running non checked and how fast? Should these be water dropped? I use 100% WW.
Thank you very much for your time.
Stephen
Ps if anyone is interested in chatting about a mould design that will fit a used rifle primer as a gas check I am thinking of making one.

[PPpastordon]

fido;
Sorry; only one response.
For plain based .22 caliber (no GC applied) I have been stuck at about 1600-1650 fps. Shooting straight WW.

[mooman76]

I have seen brass catchers for autos. I think some are universal and if I remember correctly I seen them at sportsmanguide.com

[HORNET]

fido,
The current 225415 is, IIRC, about 55 grains as is the 225646. I think that you'd be at the limits of accurate velocities for plain-based just about the time that they started to stabilize in a 14" twist. Not a good place to be and you might start leading before they go stable. The 225438 you could probably get to stabilize at PB velocity limits but I've never had any luck from mine without GC's. Some have reported being able to get good groups above the normally accepted velocity limits for PB by using wads, but I haven't tried it. I just bite the cost of the checks and crank the speeds up around 2000-2200 fps. I don't know if even the 55 grainers would function your mini-14 at those speeds.
You can probably get by without the seater ( I've never had one) and .225 is probably a good starting point. LEE makes a push-thru in .225 if you want to try cheaply.
I think that a LR or LP primer casing would be too small to be a good .22 gas check. They only go about .210 outsuide diameter and I wouldn't be very fond of trying to get them thoroughly cleaned out and then evenly expanded by .015".
It could possibly be done but wouldn't be fun. Now if you wanted to use SR or SP after molding for your pet .17 cal, they check about .172" dia which would be about perfect. (And some of you think the 37 gr 225107 is a beast to hang onto...)
As to the best design, the 225415 has a nice meplat for hunting but the 225646 has a better B.C. for long range and target (less wind drift) and the 225438 holds lots of lube to thrive at high speeds.
IIRC, on a different topic long ago and far away (group buys) Felix and Sundog were supposed to gather together bunches of about every .22 design made and run some tests to figure out which worked the best. I don't believe that I ever saw the results or if any testing had actually been completed.
Good luck but them .22's get addictive.

[felix]

Corky and I were just thinking about it again via PM/email. We have both been out of kilter for this project. We have many boolits made and ready to go, but we never have made the final effort to "just get-er-done". We have to be in a mutual mood, otherwise it would all be for naught. If someone has a boolit mold that we don't have, please ante it up. We don't care if it is a gas check dealie or not because we will tune the loads appropriately for each gun as per normal operations. If the mold is an odd-ball, we prolly do not have it. Mention on this thread what you have for this trial. If we don't have it, or something almost like it fairly closely, we will ask you to foward it to us. ... felix

[Powderpacker]

Good luck but them .22's get addictive.

They also get very frustrating and downright exasperating.

[mooman76]

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000622BATOR

I have kind of a oddball. You can see it at this link. It's a custom Lee mould sold by midsouth shooters but they are currently out of stock. It is a flat point gascheck mould. They say it's 55 grain but mine came out to 50g almost on the nose with straight WW's. I think they averaged 50.1g. They did come out to .224 or at least most of mine did. Some came out to .2235 and some as big as .225 but most to .224. I have not shot any yet as I have too many projects and I have not gotten to it in fact I'm not sure why I even got the mould but someday I'll use it.

[Larry Gibson]

fido

"225415 moulds."

This will be the most efficient killer in either cartridge.

"Which one is the most accurate In a REM 22-250 Heavy barrel and a mini 14. "

225462 is generallly the more accurate by a small margin in both cartridges but does not kill as well

"Yes I know the mini isn’t very accurate but it makes up for it in number of projectiles."

Accuracy will pretty much depnd on the model of mini14 and the velocity. In the older original series with 10" twists I got respectable accuracy up through 2200 fps but best accuracy came in the 1900 fps range. Above 2300 fps accuracy went to 6+ MOA. In the Mini14s with 7" twists I did not get any accuracy under 6 MOA with any load that functioned the action including very slow powders at case capacity. In the newer Mini14s with 9" twists I imagine 225415 at 1800-1900 fps should be accurate and in the 2200 fps range should hold MOC (Minute Of Coyote) out to 100 yards or so. 4895 powder gave reliable functioningeven down to 1700 fps with 225415

" O since we are on the topic has anyone made a brass catcher for the mini. I hate looking for brass."

There were a couple available commercially. I had one of the solid plastic ones that worked ok but let it go with the Mini14 (mistake on both counts). I've still got one for the M1 Carbine, not sure if it has a name on it but I could look.

"Is a gas check seater needed? I use an RCBS sizer. Dies? .224 or .225? Havent sluged yet."

If the GCs fit all the way on the shank before crimping a GC seater is not needed. Obviously if they don't then a GC seater might be good to use. The .225 sizer will work but a .227 is better (a Lyman will work).

"What speed can I run these at? I take it they will have to be down loaded?"

Already covered the speed for the Mini14. For the 22-250, presuming a 14" twist, you should be able to develope an accurate load up through 2400+ fps. In my M700ADL the best accuracy came right at 2400 fps. Yes it was down loaded and I used 4895 with a dacron filler.

"Anyone running non checked and how fast?"

I tried the 225438 with out GCs for a short range .22LR type load in the 22-250 and a 12" twist .223. Gave up in short order as accuracy basically sucked.

"Should these be water dropped? I use 100% WW."

That's what I did except I used WWs + 5% tin (with that little bullet I got better fillout with less rejects). The harder WQ'd bullets helped with accuracy at the higher end and the bullets also shattered in larger varmints givng an "explosive" varmint kill.

"Ps if anyone is interested in chatting about a mould design that will fit a used rifle primer as a gas check I am thinking of making one."

Are you looking at swaging the fired primer cup out to .224/5?

Larry Gibson

[trickyasafox]

will the results of this test result in a Group buy felix?

[felix]

At this moment in time, I can honestly say "prolly not" unless we can come up with something that will truly shine within a reasonable range of twist, ignition, etc. In other words, we need a boolit design that is an apparent winner. And, even so, we need a mold maker who can make a mold that will make such a small boolit with utmost uniformity and ease. We would almost require a mold that is the size of a typical two banger, but makes more boolits per throw in order to make the mold keep an effortless temperature range. Us older farts cannot sling a typical iron mold fast enough when it is cool outside to make exquisite boolits. ... felix

[felix]

Yeah, Moon, we have a couple of those Bator molds already. He sent me the total design parameters of that boolit and recommendations for a change should we so desire. But, who knows how this design really compares. I know that I really like it, but that is because I like all 22 boolits. Which one is the best? Who knows (as of right now). ... felix

[Ricochet]

You'd have to do some sort of swaging operation on the primer cup to get the firing pin dimple out, anyway.

[fido]

Thanks for all the imfo guys.
I was thinking on annealing the primer cups and swaging them out to the correct size then install them as a regular check. The bullet would have to be designed for a longer check.
One may be able to change out the spring in the mini or opening the gas bushing to get semi.
I have looked at the .22 group buy thread, good read.
I have looked at the bullet design and may try making a cherry and cut on a CNC bridgeport mill.
I will get back If I make any progress.
Keep up the work on the mold testing fellas.
Stephen

[drinks]

I have the .22 Bator, I have had decent results at 2400fps, past that, even waterdropped or oven treated did not help much, went from about 1" at 50 yds to 3-4 " at 50 yds when going from 2400 to 2600fps.
I used LBT soft blue and Lar's high speed red, no noticeable difference, except price!

[felix]

The meplat will get us shooting the Bator above 2400. At least that is what jumps out right now. What was the twist you used? ... felix

[drinks]

NEF Handi, 1/9", .223, IMR 4198.