Martini Henry muzzleloader

[ppg1949]

Hi, I'm new to CB but a long time reader. I have a Martini Henry
Long Lever muzzleloader. I can't find out anything about these firearms.
It appears to be factory made or at least a professional conversion of a
Mk 3 or Mk 4 MH. It is 45 cal but here lies my problem. What weight should
the bullet be? Since I can't find any info on this rifle I'm thinking
about 485 hrs. like a 450/577. The only marking on gun is PAK.
I think it was probably a "Home Guard" weapon.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

[Goatwhiskers]

First of all, it is not a muzzleloader, it is a cartridge weapon, possibly in the old 577-450 caliber. I will caution you strongly that if PAK is the only marking on the gun to think three or four times before you consider shooting it. A whole pile of "Khyber Pass" copies have surfaced in recent times. These are copies engineered in Pakistani "gunsmith" shops, usually made completely by hand out of whatever metal is convenient and ARE NOT SAFE to shoot under any conditions. Amazing what can be done with time, a hacksaw, and a file. A genuine Martini will have the maker's name along with British proof marks. Details of these can be found on Martini forums. Lacking these I would strongly advise you to weld up the chamber or muzzle and hang it on the wall. Good luck. GW

Edit: FWIW, I have a Martini-Enfield receiver, the s/n is in the center of the left receiver wall, proof marks are on the upper left corner of the left side. Be advised that some of the Khyber Pass rifled are fairly good copies where they even tried to copy the proof marks. Do diligent research and be on guard. GW

[waksupi]

Yep, that sounds like one of the dangerous ones.

[ppg1949]

Thanks for the quick response & MH info.
This rifle is already a muzzleloader. It appears
this this a professional conversion as opposed
to a cobbled together copy. But I will check for
the sn# now that I know where to look.
I did have a gunsmith check it out. I trust this
guy. 40 plus years experience. He had barrel
X-ray's for cracks etc. & said AOK. But since you have
told me about knock off's I'll check for proof
marks etc. I have had this rifle more than 5 years
but I'm just getting the time to play with it.
I'll post sn# , if I find one. If not it's a beautiful
rifle & will make a great conversation piece.
Thanks again to Boolit Master & waksupi.
It's nice to know someone has your back.

[Reg]

Might be interesting to see some closeup pictures of this critter.
Never heard of a muzzle stuffer Martini but then again, not saying they are not out there.

[Goatwhiskers]

I'd like to see pics also. The Martini is a breech loading rifle of tilting block design most commonly found in 577/450 or 303Brit. It has no external hammer so would be very difficult to convert to a muzzle loading cap lock design. Could be done by making a breech plug as in modern in-line types, possibly to salvage an otherwise unusable gun. I certainly wouldn't fire it with anything other than mild loads of holy black, not even the modern substitutes. The inherent dangers of the Pakistani copies cannot be overemphasized. GW

[fouronesix]

Most unusual for certain if it was "retro-converted" to a caplock ML. But makes sense given the origin (if it is a Khyber Pass gun) and lack of available cartridge ammo.

I'd go with your gunsmith's recommendations. If he has gone to the trouble of x-raying the thing, he has some interest and skin in the project. Maybe you and he could go out and shoot it. I'd start with the "tire and string" method.

Slug the bore, then try a shorter, lighter conical of pure lead, sized to bore diameter over maybe 50 gr FF blackpowder.

Closeup pics of the action would be super. Very interesting project!

[johnson1942]

watch the old but action packed movie ZULU. it will show your type of rifle in action. it is also a true story. if i had the money i would like to have a good one like it to shoot paperpatched bullets in. if wishes where horses beggers would ride them.

[Goatwhiskers]

Well, shshshooot, guess the OP doesn't have any pics. Really wanted to see how the conversion was done. GW

[ppg1949]

Back in Oct I posted on a Martini Henry muzzle loader.
Some people asked for photos. If someone will tell me
how to post a picture, I will attempt photos.
Thx

[mikeym1a]

In the reply box, at the top center are a group pictographs. If you hover your cursor over them, the third from the right is '...insert image...' . Click on it. you will get a dialog box, click on the tab '...from computer', then click '...basic uploader...'. You will then have to choose the location in your computer to draw the file from. From there, you double-click on the selected file, and it will be displayed in the 'reply' box as a quote......quote. When you click 'post quick reply', the photo will be displayed. Or something like that. I hope I didn't omit any steps. It gives me a problem occasionally, also. I do hope this works, as I would also like to see your firearm. Cheers! mikey

[BrassMagnet]

I want to see it.

[Tackleberry41]

104094

This is one I had on my computer poking around at one time or another in a martini forum.

[BrassMagnet]

104094

This is one I had on my computer poking around at one time or another in a martini forum.

Wow! Wow! Wow!

[Tatume]

In the reply box, at the top center are a group pictographs. If you hover your cursor over them, the third from the right is '...insert image...' . Click on it. you will get a dialog box, click on the tab '...from computer', then click '...basic uploader...'. You will then have to choose the location in your computer to draw the file from. From there, you double-click on the selected file, and it will be displayed in the 'reply' box as a quote......quote. When you click 'post quick reply', the photo will be displayed. Or something like that. I hope I didn't omit any steps. It gives me a problem occasionally, also. I do hope this works, as I would also like to see your firearm. Cheers! mikey

Hi Mike,

I've been trying to get this to work and cannot. All the steps are okay, but they don't actually do anything in the end.

Take care, Tom

[fred2892]

I know of one very similar to the one pictured in post 13. It doesn't work well and never will. Here's why. The first 8" from the breech of the martin henry are oversized and taper down to actual bore size. You will find when seating your patched ball/bullet that it will be a nice snug fit until the last 8" end it will literally fall away into the breech. Groove diameter of Martini mk I II or III will be around .468". The mark IV will be larger.

[Tackleberry41]

Yea I dont imagine simply threading in some sort of breech plug to use a cap would do so well in an original barrel. One in the pic has an octagonal barrel, gonna say a replacement. Considered doing it to my extra one but figured just easier to go buy a muzzle loader, keep the extra rifle for spare parts.