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jjamna
11-07-2007, 12:40 AM
I use a lot of Trail Boss powder for 30-30 and 357 mag lite loads. I would like to get some data for 300 Savage, 35 Remington and maybe a 308 win. Anyone know where to get such data. I have emailed IMR and Loaddata.com (over two weeks now) No replies from IMR and load data said they would get back with me. I have worked up some loads on my own but keep em lite to be safe.

Powderpacker
11-07-2007, 06:35 AM
I called IMR tech support a while back (I think 913-362-9455 is/was their number) and was told to fill the case in question with Trail Boss up to the point where I expected the base of the boolit to be. Pour the powder out of the case and weigh it - this will be your max load (can't compress Trail Boss) . The start load is 70% of the max load .

dmftoy1
11-07-2007, 12:28 PM
Wow .. .I'd like to see that one in writing. (could be true) The max load for 45-70 is way below the base of a bullet. I know they judge those for the old trapdoor's, so I'd be interested if that was true for say an 1895.

Ed Barrett
11-07-2007, 02:08 PM
Trail boss is so light and fluffy I could see that using 70% of a full case as a good method.

Harry O
11-07-2007, 02:33 PM
I did some experimenting with Trail-Boss and the 32-20. The maximum listed load is 2.8gr that is supposed to be about 16,000psi. I have an old Colt Police Positive Special that is probably the lightest handgun ever made for the 32-20. I bent it once (back when I was a teenager) shooting "rifle-only" loads in it. After it was fixed, I have been VERY careful about NOT shooting anything over lead-handgun loads in it. The problem is that with Bullseye, Red Dot or other similar powders, they only fill the case 1/4 to 1/3 full.

I loaded up some 98gr RCBS round-nose with a flat-tip at about Bhn 9 (not because it needed it that hard, but because I had them laying around) and 2.8gr of Trail-Boss. Accuracy was good, felt recoil was about the same as factory lead-loads, and it filled the case a little more than half full. Looks like a winner for that.

I also have heavier duty 32-20 handguns around. I loaded up a progression of cartridges until the powder was even with the base of the seated bullet (no compression). That was 4.8gr of Trail-Boss. In a heavier gun, it was accurate, felt recoil was about the same as my handload of 6.0gr of SR4756 and a 100gr Hornady XTP. I did not chrono either load, but I know from the past that the SR4756 load is somewhere around 28,000 to 30,000psi. It cost more than the SR4756 per shot, so I won't be using it for that.

For light loads, however, I will be using more of it.

dubber123
11-07-2007, 05:43 PM
Wow .. .I'd like to see that one in writing. (could be true) The max load for 45-70 is way below the base of a bullet. I know they judge those for the old trapdoor's, so I'd be interested if that was true for say an 1895.

This was what they told me also, but they said for "straight wall cases" only for that formula. The no compression thing is also what they told me. Compressing it breaks the flakes, and dramatically changes the burn rate. I don't know of any given formula for bottleneck cases. Start low and work up I guess. It has a pretty narrow range of application, but is super useful in alot of different cartridges.

1Shirt
11-08-2007, 12:31 PM
Seems to me that if it works well in 30-30 for Cowboy Action Loads, that it ought to be the cats whatever for a hornet with cast. Has anybody tried it in a hornet?
1Shirt!:coffee:

KCSO
11-08-2007, 12:39 PM
I am currently using 6.5 gr of Trail Boss in my 35 remington to push a 158 RNFP bullet for small game and plinking. 50 yard groups run right at 1" with peep sights in my Model 8.

Powderpacker
11-08-2007, 02:11 PM
Seems to me that if it works well in 30-30 for Cowboy Action Loads, that it ought to be the cats whatever for a hornet with cast. Has anybody tried it in a hornet?
1Shirt!:coffee:

I tried it in my k-hornet with cast . Ran the whole 70 -100% load gamut with a Lyman and a RCBS sized .224 &.225 and unsized with mediocre results. I could not get a clean burn with any load - the bore always looked like the inside of an oil burner that was out of adjustment. This really surprised me as Trail Boss is extreemly clean in my .41 mag and .357 mag and almost as clean in my .38 spl and .32 mag. In other calibers I've tried, Trail Boss burns at least as clean as 'regular' powders . Accuracy in all of the above cartriges (with the exception of the k-hornet) ranged from acceptable to very good without a lot of experimentation .

Powderpacker
11-08-2007, 02:24 PM
This was what they told me also, but they said for "straight wall cases" only for that formula.
The tech rep I talked with didn't make that distinction. Actually, he gave me that formula for the hornet and k-hornet . Maybe the larger capacity cases with small necks are a problem .

Swagerman
11-08-2007, 02:53 PM
I was really impressed with Trail Box powder.

While trying out some new loads that had Bullseye and Unique powder they really dirtied up my revolver...plus, the Lyman alox lube didn't help either...the barrel and cylinder chambers extremely fowled.

Shot some new loads with the Trail Box powder and couldn't believe how clean the barrel suddenly got...it seem to blow out all the crud the other powders built up...now that is amazing. :drinks:

Only thing is, haven't found a good accurate load for my .44 specials with TB yet, but will step up the grains until I do. I started with 200 grain RNFP HB bullets with 4.3 grains of TB, this gave about 725 fps...pretty mild stuff.

My Hodgdon's Clays is another good clean burning powder.

Plus it helps to not use that damn Alox Lyman lube grease. Got good results with Hornady powder coated 240 grain swaged bullets with velocities not going over 850 fps. No leading or fowling.

Jim

dromia
11-08-2007, 03:24 PM
Same formula for .577" Snider loads ????

dubber123
11-08-2007, 05:40 PM
Same formula for .577" Snider loads ????

The Sniders a BIG bottle neck right? If so I don't know it the formula applies. I have used it alot, (now exclusively) in my 50-70 Government Contender, that is the biggest case I have used it in.

dromia
11-08-2007, 05:50 PM
Nope the Snider is near enough straight sided as to make no difference.

You might be thinking of the 450/577" Martini round which is a necked down 577" Snider case to take the PP'ed "Small Bore" .450" bullet.

1Shirt
11-08-2007, 09:44 PM
Ok, so much for the hornet! Anybody try it in 444 yet? Or for that matter
7.62x54R!
1Shirt!:coffee:

freedom475
11-09-2007, 02:02 AM
I tried it in all my straight walled pistols, filled the cases right up to the bottom of the boolit. Have had good results, but I did have some Bridgeing of the powder through my Reding powder measure.

Trust the guys that tell you TB CANNOT be compressed, the preasure goes WAY up with just a little compression. Don't ask me how I know[smilie=1:

Powderpacker
11-09-2007, 09:33 AM
Ok, so much for the hornet! 1Shirt!:coffee:

I probably should have added a disclosure to my post stating that I have had less than stellar results with cast boolits in a vareity of .22's using 'regular' powders, etc. If you have had good results with cast boolits in your Hornet I would certainly try Trail Boss for that application. And if you can get Trail Boss to burn clean in a .22 Hornet please let me know how to do it .

KCSO
11-09-2007, 12:05 PM
This load is above MAX in the book, follow this at your own risk and NOT in trapdoor rifles.

I am using 15 grains by weight of Trail Boss in my 45-70 Sharps carbine. This load give excellent accuracy and prints dead on with the B/P load. Max load listed for the 45-70 is 13 grains. Velocity is 1200 same as the b/p load. Pressure listed for 13 grains is 24,000.

kodiak1
11-09-2007, 07:41 PM
Anyone here tried in a 50-90 or 45-100 yet?
You guys peeked my intrests a little here.
Have used the 5744 and like it.
Ken.

hs45/70
11-12-2007, 02:13 PM
Have tested Trail boss with " J " and some cast in .222 rem . 223 rem. .308 30/06 .338 win mag .416 Rem Mag. and 444 Marlin and a bit of 45/70 loadings. Found good to excellent accuracy with each cartridge at 50 yards and haven't tried the same loads at 100 yds yet.

If any of these ctgs. interests you.... can provide load data/velocities/results ( unsanctioned by Hodgdon Powder company) for these calibers.

jjamna
11-13-2007, 02:03 AM
Yes what do ya put in the 308 for 120 grain and 150 grain bullets

94Doug
11-13-2007, 02:18 AM
I confess to using Trail Boss in 458 Lott. I emailed Hodgon for ideas, they emailed me back asking for a phone number. The tech explained the whole 75% thing, wanting to make sure I understood. I have used 385 and 350 cast with good luck, they are quite on the light side, but fun, and shootable even by my kids.

Doug

94Doug
11-13-2007, 02:23 AM
....By the way, I believe the technique is the case full of powder to the bottom of the base of the bullet X 75%... which is the MAX load, you would start with less. This applies to straight walled cases only.

hs45/70
11-13-2007, 10:08 PM
In load work up for all the ctgs. I started at about 50 % of the empty case capacity and worked up from there. In nearly all instances accuracy and velocity peaked at or before about 68% of the empty case capacity. anything beyond did not prove accurate and groups got "much larger" and signs of pressure were noted.

"as usual,....these loads do not exist in any loading manual..they are safe in my rifle"

Rem 788 .308 18.5 in/ brl. Lyman 155 gr. #311466 gc. wc / wwts.
IVI Canadian Military cases win. lr primers

Case capacity is 18.1 grains Trail Boss

8.0 gr. Tboss 1077..1033..1046 fps..3 shots/50yds...1.05 inch
9.0 gr Tboss 1131..1129..1134 fps.....0.475 inch
10.0 gr Tboss 1220..1211..1193 fps.....0.88 inch
11.0 gr Tboss 1299..1324..1290 fps.....1.45 inch
12.0 gr Tboss 1351..1348..1349 fps.....1.09 inch
13.0 gr Tboss 1395..1411..1394 fps.....0.84 inch

Lee 120 gr fn gc wc wwts. same components

8.0 Gr Trail boss.1208..1186..1202 fps 3 shots/50 yds..3.0 inch
9.0 gr Tboss 1277..1284..1320 fps 2.90 inch
10.0 gr Tboss 1378..1369..1363 fps 2.20 inch
11.0 gr Tboss 1437..1448..1454 fps 0.97 inch
12.0 gr Tboss 1542..1547.. no reading 2.0 inch
13.0 gr Tboss 1615 n/r nr fps 1.53 inch

In jacketed I shot 95 gr Rn Norma fmj , 123 gr (.309) Lapua fmj spz. 150 gr rn Norma and got many sub one inch groups at 50 yds also..usually at the 10-13 grain range.....I found this accuracy with similar weights of Tboss powder to be consistant in the 30/06 with the same J bullets that were used in the .308.

If this process seems unsafe to you ...please disregard.....

hs45/70.....

.

jjamna
11-14-2007, 01:46 AM
HS45/70 They look good to me My IMR Book say's min 6.6 grns and max grns 9.0 for 30-30- Win I think I will start at 8 or 9 and work up to 10 or 11 grs If I need more speed than that I will just use a different powder. I have quite a bit of Trail Boss on hand and was just checking to see if anyone had gotten any info from IMR. I sent an email over 2 weeks ago and still have no reply. A GREAT BIG THANK YOU to all who have replied. I have learned more just reading and asking on this site than you can imagin. Also A GREAT BIG THANK YOU to all military personel because of them we have the freedom to post our beliefs in public and not have fear of being arrested.
Jeff McBride