Lead of wheelweight in sabot

[Crowkiller]

Hi folks,
I'm shooting an H&R Huntsman this year for muzzleloading season, and I have found a good load using sabots and Lee 310 grain .44 round nose flat point bullets. I've always used pure lead with roundballs and conicals, but was wondering if I needed to cast some lead .44 bullets? The load is clocking about 1400 fps from my chronograph. Is that fast enough for reliable expansion in wheelweights? Is it too fast for lead in this design?
Thanks,
Crowkiller

[Buckshot]

................I'd think that you'd get some expansion at an impact velocity of 1200 fps. Definately get penetration. If it were me, I think I just might make up a pot of 1/2 lead, half WW. It'd make just a bit heavier more co-hesive slug that would for sure expand at that velocity.

If you were to cast some up, run a part of the part with the WW and then just add some lead for a partial refill and cast some of those up. Take'm out to the range and see what happens.

............Buckshot

[Crowkiller]

Well, I tried the 310 grain wheelweight bullets in dry phone books. The bullet penetrated 8 inches, and turned sideways. It lost almost 100 grains of weight. I've cast up some pure lead samples and some lead softnose/water dropped wheelweight shank bullets. I also water dropped some wheelweight bullets, just to see their penetration. I will test them in a few weeks.
I used the dry phone books because I think they are a tougher test than wet newsprint (and much easier to transport to the range). A few years back, I had a 30/06 bullet destroyed by a deer shoulder. It performed well and penetrated well in wet newsprint, but came apart and did not penetrate in dry phone books. The muzzleloader launched bullet out penetrated any 30/06 bullet I have tried.

[carpetman]

Crowkiller--Those bullets penetrating 8 inches of phone book would work in most instances. But what happens when you get a 9" grizzly phone book attacking you? You obviously need more gun. No way are you secure with whatever you are shooting,for sure you need a magnum. Anything less and you wont stop an attacking 9 incher even a mere 8 1/4" and they don't even make Boone & Crockett. I only use magnums for carry when in areas of thick phone books,and have several books mounted on my walls that go over 10". I'll not mention what size the largest is as I'm sure someone ----------perhaps from Tn would surely top it,so I'll leave the door open,otherwise I wouldn't have a chance.

[Buckshot]

............Ray, please forward a bottle of windex and a bundle of paper towels so I can clean the Coke of my moniter. That's a nice fellow :D

...............Buckshot

[StarMetal]

When I hunt deer with my 45-70 Browning 1886 Winchester reproduction carbine I cast my bullets of just WW's and don't water quench them or heat treat them. I got really good results with a muzzle velocity of 1850. I had posted a pic of one of the RCBS 405 grs that I took a nice large doe at 200 yards. I would imagine at that distance the slug had slowed down conciderably, but it's expansion was more the I could have asked for. I recovered the bullet from the deer and she was shot angling away from me so at that distance I know the bullet slowed enough not to penetrate totally and plus it expanding slowed it down even more. Funny things bullets are. You never said what kind of bullet it was you had blow up on a deer's shoulder with that 30-06. I can't imagine a name 150 gr and up bullet doing that out of a 06.

Joe

[Crowkiller]

Starmetal,
The bullet was a Hornady 150 grain SST. I have killed four deer with the bullet, all wonderful one shot kills (One was a nice ten point buck) except for one.The doe that stopped my winning streak was shot slightly quartering to me at 50 yards. I hit the leg bone in the shoulder area (not the scapula). She fell, lay for about 30 seconds, then got up and ran about 100 yards. I dressed her and found no entrance into the chest cavity. The bullet had shattered the bone, and I could find no trace of it. I skinned her and quartered her, and still found no penetration into the chest cavity. The bullet's path should have taken it there, but it may have been deflected. All the other deer were hit in the chest with through and through penetration.
In my phonebook testing, the 150 grain SST penetrated 5", the same as the Hornady Interlock spire point 150 grain bullet. The Interlock bullet was in one piece, whereas the SST suffered a jacket seperation, and the core was the only thing that got past 4". Granted, they are examples of one, but it did fit with my experience. I shoot them out of a 7.62X39 bolt action now.
The bullet did work. It killed the deer. But I just cannot trust it anymore in the 30/06.

Sorry for the digression. This IS a forum about Muzzleloading and Cast Bullets.

[carpetman]

Crowkiller--The only thing I have found to be consistent about shooting game is that you don't know until you have pulled the trigger. For the past several years, I have been using 100 grain Winchester bulk packed(read cheap)in .243's. I have supplied all the ammo for my son in law,grandson and myself. That load has accounted for several deer--I think with that load they were all one shot. I know last year grandson was 4 shots 4 deer and his dad was one for one.

[jeff223]

here is a 250gr SST that i recovered last year from a buck i shot.the boolit enetred in the ham and traveled up through the deer and was recovered in the front shoulder just under the hide.i have a unshot sst beside the recovered boolit just for campairson.the sst lost most of it weight during its trip through the buck.all the others are Barnes MZ Expanders that i recovered through the years.they hold there weight and penatrate very good.you will be lucky to recover a boolit fires from a muzz loader.end to end shots are about your only chance of that.

i know this doesnt have anything to do with your post but i thought you might find it interesting seeing how someone mentioned the SST boolit fired from an 06.

also all the boolits i recovered were shot with max loads too.the Barnes boolits were shot with 3-50gr pyro pellets and the sst boolit was shot using 130gr of 777 loose
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid149/pcf56c154dd70fc60635688d61ee68e02/f605d8c9.jpg

[shooter575]

Only experence with a sabot was when a buddy came out to my place last year to help him sight in his inline.Nothing would work worth a damm.A pie plate was safe at 50 yd. I doug out some old .50 Lee ashcan minnes I had laying around.80 gr of ff goex pot then into 3".This was in the AM.He had a doe on the pole by 1:00 pm that day.
Pellits and sabots... I just dont know.

[Toney]

I've tryed the undersized 45rn from my lee
mould in my cva staghorn the 4.52xtp
are almost impossible to load even with
clean barell . every one under 452 gets
put in the black power box . have only
took them out shooting once . Ken brought
over some pellets 30g pyr and some 50g
clean shot . heard about the flying pellets .
one 30g pellet might as well be shooting
pop bottle rockets . pellet sounded cool
hit the hood right behind the bullet we picked
up the bullet and sabot and tryed two 30g
pellets it spit them out burning to . it takes three
to make a load for a woman . 4 adout knock
Ken over he's small . 5 is just to much hard
to keep the scope off the brow . only shot
a few of the clean shot pellets just to hot
out side about a 100 with the humidy around
the same . its about time to take'm out and
see how accurate they are