Impending Failure

[pearcetopher]

Hi guys,

Recently I tried shooting a .309 cast at 1500 fps with no gas check and the bullets had a bout a 12 inch pattern at 50 yards :( the mold im using is a gas checked mold.

When I normally attach gas checks the bullets shoot very very accuractely. Obviously the accuracy loss is due to no gas check. Fine no big deal on my rifle that I barely shoot

, my question is this

I also shoot 44 mag with a gas check mold at 1500 fps and they are very accurate

If I load a few 44s with no gas check is the same thing going to happen? Running gas checks increases my cost of shot by 6 cents and 44 gas checks are hard to come by where I live.

Any expierienced input would be greatly appreciated,

Thanks again,

Chris

[bhn22]

You'll find that each combination is a rule unto itself. Some things work under some circumstances, some don't. The only way to find out for certain is to try it yourself, with your components, under your conditions. There are very few hard, fast rules with cast bullets. Often times, there are many different ways of achieving your goals.

[Cherokee]

Only your gun can answer that question. I have pushed PB CB's that fast in 44 mag without any leading with good accuracy. Might try another mold.

[shadowcaster]

Running gas checks increases my cost of shot by 6 cents and 44 gas checks are hard to come by where I live.

Purchasing gas check makers will solve all/most of your GC boolit problems, and will pay for themselves in very short order.

Shad

[kbstenberg]

But don't make the same mistake I made. Brainstorm!!! Buy a check maker, make enough checks that you figure will last your lifetime. Sell the checkmaker (with a little monetary loss) and by another in a different size you need. Flip it again.
You Becha! Whana guess who has used 1/3 of a lifetime supply of checks in 2 years!!!!!!

[Ben]

I continue to be confused as to why people want to buy molds that have a gas check shank on them and shoot the bullets that are cast with them without a gas check.

98% of the time poor results occur. ( Like a 12 inch pattern at 50 yards )

[btroj]

Because they can?

I Don't get it either Ben. But a plain base mould or buy checks. Buying a check maker makes some sense too, far more than trying to go check less.

I just buy checks, I don't use enough to fret the cost. Powder and primers cost far more.

[dilly]

Just thought I'd put a plug in for some of the vendor sponsors here that sell checks at pretty reasonable rates. Less than $.06 each, for sure.

[btroj]

Blammer lists Gator checks in 44 cal at 29 per thousand. Not even close to 6 cents a pop.

A 44 can easily work quite well with a plain base, just buy a plain base mould.

A 30 cal can shoot well with a plain base, ask Ben, he can tell you how. Just don't expect good accuracy at much over 1500 fps without a check in a 30 cal.

[pearcetopher]

I looked up once how to make your own checks and apparently they either didn't work properly or the tools used to do so were garbage and it was cheaper and more time efficient to simply buy your own

Can you guys point me to a gas check making instructional on this website that actually works?

[btroj]

Wow, that amazes me. Many here make their own checks. Pat Marlin has a good following, my father in law has a maker from him.

[myg30]

Chris, you did not mention what lead mix your using ? You can try a harder mix to see if that fixes your non checks.
You might want to try some of the aluminum checks sold on the forum here by our members, little cheeper than copper.

Just me $.02 worth, Mike

[44man]

It depends on the boolit, some NEED the extra length and leaving the check off can make a mismatch to the twist. Less velocity might stabilize it.

[bhn22]

It depends on the boolit, some NEED the extra length and leaving the check off can make a mismatch to the twist. Less velocity might stabilize it.

I was always concerned about the gas check shank getting deformed at ignition, and destabilizing the bullet base. As we know, the base end is the steering end of a bullet. That's my guess anyway.

[bhn22]

I looked up once how to make your own checks and apparently they either didn't work properly or the tools used to do so were garbage and it was cheaper and more time efficient to simply buy your own

Can you guys point me to a gas check making instructional on this website that actually works?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?60-Gas-Checks

[pearcetopher]

I am using wheel weights that I bake at 450 and have a BHN of 42
Chris, you did not mention what lead mix your using ? You can try a harder mix to see if that fixes your non checks.
You might want to try some of the aluminum checks sold on the forum here by our members, little cheeper than copper.

Just me $.02 worth, Mike

[waksupi]

I am using wheel weights that I bake at 450 and have a BHN of 42

No, you don't.

[jmort]

Hopefully a typo.

[codgerville@zianet.com]

True enough, waksupi. Maybe 15. Knew a fellow who insisted on shooting 358156 without checks, a glob of lube on the base, couldn't hit a barn door at 25 yards.

[rintinglen]

If you are only interested in plinking ammo for your .44, you may find that doing without a gascheck is ok. I have found that "checkless" GC boolits generally group somewhere between 3 and 3 times as large as they do when they have their pants on. I shot a lot of RCBS 38-162 SWC's back in the day and found they were good for about 6 inch groups at 20 yards when plain based, but would do 2 inch groups with gas checks.

[leadman]

Check the vendor listing for 338REMULTRA (SP?) for his gas checks. They are mostly aluminum with some available in copper. Way less than the Hornady or Lyman checks, and also Blammers. I have shot them and they have worked just fine.

If you don't want to use checks at all have one of our vendors cut the shank to a plain base. I don't know who does this but others probably do.

[RoyEllis]

I am using wheel weights that I bake at 450 and have a BHN of 42

Only if you're casting with zinc WW's :coffee:

[44man]

84855
I was always concerned about the gas check shank getting deformed at ignition, and destabilizing the bullet base. As we know, the base end is the steering end of a bullet. That's my guess anyway.
No deformation, just boolit length to twist rate with proper velocity.
The GC is very important with softer alloys and is why it was developed, so it stopped skid at the base but the PB hard enough will do the same. The problem is that if you leave the check off with the right alloy the boolit drive length can be too short for how fast you want to shoot.
The picture is from a TC 30-30 Contender at 100 yards, shooting pennies. I ran out of GC's and shot some bare and they went through paper at 50 meters sideways. Yes the tiny more amount of drive length was needed. The boolits were hard and would not deform. Recovered boolits showed no base damage.
Why is twist so hard to understand?

[capt.hollis]

I am using wheel weights that I bake at 450 and have a BHN of 42450• huh, ? Lol. No no .

[Baryngyl]

I continue to be confused as to why people want to buy molds that have a gas check shank on them and shoot the bullets that are cast with them without a gas check.

98% of the time poor results occur. ( Like a 12 inch pattern at 50 yards )

I can not say why others buy a mold for a GC bullet and then shoot with out the GC, just why I do, it was the only mold available for the bullet I wanted and could afford.
I am thinking of trying to use a fluted reamer type thing and remove the GC shank part of the mold.



Michael Grace

[dilly]

Sorry to be distracting but when I read the title of this thread I thought it would be about Obamacare.

[popper]

pearcetopher - I have been testing PB vs no GC in 30/30 with a RD311 regular lube groove, shank removed on 3 cavities. Results indicate that with slow powder (LeverE) I get a tad better accuracy without the GC, at ~ 1350 fps (~1"@50yds). With fast (2400) powder neither are accurate (1600fps, 4-5"). Add GC to the 2400 load & ~1" @ 50. These are all coated with either PC or HiTek. Comparing to earlier tests with 4895 & LeverE, lubed, 1 1/2" @ 50, sans check. Adding a GC and running close to 2000 gives an easy 1/2-1" @ 50. My theory is that sans check gives a cleaner exit, if the rear band and alloy can take the pressure spike. The FB adds ~ 4 gr and the rear drive band is 60% longer. I think I am seeing the same thing in 40SW, FB vs BB (Lee 175 TC & SWC). I purposely damaged the base in the 40 and results were spectacularly BAD. My next 30/30 test is to BB the FB (post casting) to see if it is just the poor FB. My hypothesis is that I can't make a FB edge as good as a shanked CB. Not sure I can apply GC square enough to guarantee exceptional accuracy(any bump on the base is bad).