25 copperhead 25/222

[257]

i have a aquired a 25 copperhead it is made by expanding a 222 rem case to 25 calbut when i do this the case comes out .025 to .040 to short for case lenght(sammi). i was wondering if anyone here had tried opening up a 222 mag brass and giving it a really long neck and then trimming the excess off. if any body has experance with this cal. any ideas would be appreaciated

[felix]

Your situation is typical when upping the diameter of a case neck. Seat a finished boolit into the case to where you will want it for real and close the bolt gently. But, before doing so, magic mark the whole neck area. Eject the round SLOWLY keeping any marks intact. If no scrapes are on the neck, as would be expected, you are good to go. Load up a bunch and shoot them with your normal loads for the round without paying any attention to neck length. After the cases have been fire-formed well, then trim them for an exact length. But.... Check for any closure of the neck after firing each case by using a jacketed 25 caliber (or larger if necessary) bullet point first. Each case should show the SAME amount of bullet insertion based upon the neck's opening. Any tight neck sign is where your maximum case length is. Keep in mind the diameter of the case neck with boolit should be the very same for all rounds used for this test to be EXACT. ... felix

Note: Variable neck lengths do not degrade accuracy when fast powders are used. This is because the neck area is slammed open quickly to release the boolit. Of course, this would not be true for a tight neck chambering, but your gun probably was not built this way. If it was, the paragraph above would catch that. Then all the case necks will have to be turned. The fast powder of choice for this round would be 2400, AA9, N110 at 12 grains using a 85 grainer. The slowest powder would be 4227 at three grains more. ... felix

[Artful]

Why use expensive 222 mag when 1.76" long 223 should be enough longer to get 1.695 you want?

[257]

hi the rifle is a ridle rifle co single shot am going to make a modfied case for the hornady gage tryed checking the throat buy puting blue dykem on a 120 gr. bullit barly stuck in case didnot even touch the rifling gun appears to have a really long throat like the early weathbys

[felix]

Your gun has had many, many rounds shot through it. Best to have it rechambered, and possibly have an inch or so chopped off the muzzle if not kosher. The throat should exhibit a freebore close to zero with a 1.5 degree total leade. ... felix

[257]

accually i think the gun has had less than 50 rounds thru it. the fellow i bought it from shot 20 rounds thru it and said the fellow he got it from bought it new and shot a box and half thru it i accully talked to the son of the guy whose grand father made these rifles and he said that a most of the rifles they made were given very long throats on purpose.but i can't verfiy that what he said is true . i a'm going to make a modfied case this weekend so i can get a dim. for the throat thanks for info

[dk17hmr]

I have a 25-223 and love it...I agree try 223 brass before wasting expensive 222 Rem Mag brass (204 ruger brass is the same length a 222 Rem Mag). 025 to .040 case length shouldn't really make a difference though.

25-223 shooting a 110gr Accubond at 2700fps at the muzzle.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/IMG_20120917_133749-1.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/dk17hmr/media/IMG_20120917_133749-1.jpg.html)

[Uncle Grinch]

I remember reading about the 25 Copperhead many years ago. I believe it was John Wooters who developed it. Haven't heard much about it since.

Nice to see it is still around. Give us some feedback on it.

[Char-Gar]

Yep, John Wooters developed the 25 Copperhead back in the early 60's. He was looking for an updated on steroids version of the 25-20 for varmints and small game. He had a gunsmith in Houston (Jess Stark) make him the rifle and it proved to be a very good round. He used a short Sako bolt action and a 20" barrel.

I had Jess make me one with the same Clymer reamers used by Wooters. It proved to be a great rifle with either cast or jackets bullets. Wooters and I both used 1-12 twist Douglas barrels. I sold or traded my rifle after a few years in search of another firearms thrill. Kinda stupid, now that I think about it.

I had been shooting the 25 Remington in both a Remington 14 pump and a Remington 30S bolt and really like them both. I also had and still have 25-20 rifles. The 25 Copperhead sorta fell in between the 25-20 and the 25 Remington in case capacity and power.

The military has not gone to the .223 at this time, so using it was not an option. It also has a shorter neck and a little more powder capacity. It was based on the 222 Remington Magnum which was available, but Wooters liked the longer neck and preferred it for that reason. Long necks are great for folks who like cast bullets to keep the bullets feet out of the fire. The powder capacity of the 222 case proved to be optimal for what he was trying to do.

I used both 4227 and 4895 powders in the round with good results. I am certain there are others powders that will do as well, but powder choices were limited "back in the day".

Oh yes, the rifle was developed for use with 80 to 100 grain bullets. Jacketed bullets would be 87 grains and 100 grains. IIRC there were some 60 grain jacketed bullet available, but I would have to check. The powder capacity and throat did not make the use of longer 120 grain bullets attractive. I used both the 87 grain Sierra and Lyman 257312 (90 GC). I did try a few 100 grain jacketed bullets but saw no advantage as I did not use this rifle for deer. The 30S in 25 Remington made a better deer rifle.

[felix]

I lived in the Briar Village sub-division at the NE corner of Hy6-Westheimer. Yes, John Wooters and a bunch of shooters in the Sillywet game lived there as well. Also, the owner of Collectors' Firearms who I got to know quite well. One of the Sillywet guys lived 2 houses exactly right behind me and invited me to a game area slightly north of Freeport. I got to try a few gun styles and did fairly well with them at 200 and closer targets, and usually missed the rams entirely when the wind or humidity was up too high (for me). Lots of fun, but not nearly enough for me to continue the sport because by then boolit shooting at "minuscule" targets became my forte. ... felix

[Char-Gar]

Silhouette shooting morphed from a Mexican sport where by live animals (goats, turkeys and chickens) were tethered at known distances. Over time steel targets of the same critters replaced flesh, blood, hair and feathers. In due time it jumped the border and took root in this country where it continued to morph into an American version.

About this time the Army and other branches embarrassed that the Russians were whipping our tails in international shooting developed the AMU at Ft. Bennings and assigned their best shooters and gunsmiths there. To keep in competition these guys shot in every regional and state match they could and soon began to take most of the trophies. That drove many of us out of the sport as we had jobs others than to shoot all day every day.

Shooting metal critters was not an international sport at that time and it provided a way to shoot against folks just like us. The fall of the metal critter also gave instant feedback about the shot. Lots of fun.

I shot in Mexico several time while it was still a big things down there.

Somewhere along the line, folks decided that speed was more fun than accuracy and sports developed along that line. They were passed of as simulated combat, but I think we all know better. In order to have real simulated combat, the targets have to shoot back.

[257]

i checked this out with a hornday a.o.l. gauge this gun has about 1.050 inch of free bore (end of case to rifling) i did convert some rem. 223 brass to this and then trimed the excess neck down to sammi spec (nomal) now i have to load up 10 rounds to fire and see how much the brass grows after firing

[Char-Gar]

That is one heck of a long throat!

[257]

it is a very long throat will try to get some rounds loaded this week and get to the range tues or wensday and see what happens

[Artful]

Wonder if it was set up for heavier bullets for big game hunting? What twist rate is the barrel?