What the #%@$!^%!$???????

[JohnH]

Just ranting, need to blow off some steam before I go and look at this some more...

Got an RCBS 35-200-FN from a friend over the weekend to play with in the 357 Max. Cast some yesterday afternoon, went and shot 5....nicely formed group 1 1/4". I had water dropped the bullets, but these were from test drops along the way to see how the bullets were doing. I'm happy all day thinking about shooting this thing again. One of the best looking first load groups I've seen from the gun. Get home, load up 10, fire 2 five shot groups, one is 1 1/4 and one 5/8!!!!! Feeling good now, I decide to load ten more but try small rifle primers. Bad, Bad idea. Group went to 3". OK, won't try that again, load ten more, switch back to small pistol primers, group is still at 3". Crap is getting old.

Bullets are dropping at 360-361 but the mold doesn't close completely (looks warped, closes on ends, light in center) but it casts ok, though it leaves some fins. Doesn't leave flash. Tried setting the locator pins back slightly, but even with the blocks rocking on the pins, it still shows light. Looked closely using 10x magnifiers, no burrs.

I don't know what to make of the gun. I have 2 1/2 years of todays experience behind me, and apparently don't know how to get any improvement. Damn thing shoots jacketed fine. Shoots cast fine occasionally, just don't know on what occasions it will or won't. I admit that I have not made a casting of the chamber, so I do not know what the throat looks like, and this could easily be the root of the problem, but by the time I get into a custom mold and sizing die overhaul to fit such a bullet, I can rechamber to 357 Herret or even 356 Winchester for that matter. But neither of those is what I want either. Grrrrrrrrr....

Thanks for listenin'

[David R]

I would take a dial calper, put an unsized boolit in the jaws longway and turn the boolit to see how out of round it is. You could stone the mold flat and re do the vent lines.

Good luck

[Bass Ackward]

Crap is getting old.

I admit that I have not made a casting of the chamber, so I do not know what the throat looks like, and this could easily be the root of the problem,


John, John, John,

I'm a feelin for ya buddy, but not too much. You ain't thinkin here. Maybe you just need to walk away for a bit. Go sharpen a stick. Search for some internet porn. Something. Then come back.

Before you go though, didn't you just say you shot 38 Special brass and it did great? Well that throat had to be 1/2" of chamber freebore. That bullet was going clinkity clunk down that chamber until it walked up the throat ramp so to speak. Can't get much worse than that. Your throat may not be ideal, but I doubt its changing on ya either.

Water dropped huh? Shot good right away, but later when they got harder things changed? You know that hardness on a water dropped slug isn't linear because of temperature right? A few will harden to 90% of final hardness in an hour. Most will harden to 90% in 24 hours. But .... a few will harden gradually and take two weeks get to final hardness.

What hardness were the ones that shot great? That's the hardness I would aim for.

[Willbird]

If this is a TC contender, the throat they use for 357 max is a longgggg shallow taper, I never shot cast in mine but with a 4x scope it shot 3" at 100 with the hornady 180 grain single shot pistol bullet.

TC bbls arent the best IMHO, they make everything themselves BUT the 22 centerfire bbls, and those seem to have a real reputation for accuracy, several other cfire calibers I have owned the bore was very very rough with visible reaming toolmarks on the tops of the lands, they jacket fouled heavily.

I always wanted a bullberry 357 max bbl with a nice rifle type throat, or another idea would be to re-chamber a 357 mag TC to 357 max and get a nicer throat.

I read (in a BOOK) that TC does not use a rifle type throat on their pistol caliber bbls, and the author re-throated his in several calibers and accuracy improved, that isnt gonna fly with the throat TC uses for 357 max tho because it is too far out there now.

Bill

[bdoyle]

I slugged my TC 357 max barrel last week. Has a long taper (.180-.200) from the brass dia to what you might call a throat. It stays at .361 for another .200 and tapers to a bore dia .357. Glad it is a 14 inch barrel so they could fit that all in! I have the rcbs 200 and it might work if I can get them to reach out to the .361.
Brian

[Willbird]

I have heard differant theroies on that throat, one being they did it so 38 special would work (38 hbwc btw in mine shot GREAT over std. bullseye type loads). The other theory being that it was to lower pressures, a revolver kind of already has that type of throat going on, and it may be that saami ammo in a rifle type throat would be a touch too hot for the TC action ??

A 10" bull bbl with rifle sights rure rocks and rolls in 357 max with factory grips....little buck and roar going on there hehe.

I really like the ctg. as it offers impressive downrange ballistics compared to some other pistol ctg. I would like to do up a bolt action single shot pistol someday, 357 max is an oHIo legal pistol deer ctg. 357 max has the same rim dia as 7.62x39. a non rotating extractor would be best, maybe a mini mauser action would work out nice (you can legally make a pistol from an action that was sold as a bare action and has not been made into a gun yet)

Bill

[JohnH]

John, John, John,

I'm a feelin for ya buddy, but not too much. You ain't thinkin here.

What hardness were the ones that shot great? That's the hardness I would aim for.

You're right, I ain't been thinking. But first, the 5 that shot good were dropped onto the same cloth I drop my sprues on, they were not water dropped. I would be surprised if the BHN was 8 as they were shot within an hour of being cast (WW+1.6% tin) So yeah I am going to try some 20:1 Ihave and I can make some softer if that don't help.

I also brought home a set of telescoping bore gages and proceeded to go over the barrel dimensions real good. Chamber is .384, Throat is .379, app 3/16" long, the bore at the chamber and muzzle is .351. Based on measuring bullets I have recovered over the last two years, the groove diameter is .356/357. At the moment I firmly believe the throat is the culprit, and I don't think there is any resolution but a rechamber, or possibly boring the old chamber out and making a sleeve that can be pressed in the bore and the chamber recut. Even then, the barrel may not perform well at low velocity, but a proper throat would go a long way toward helping.

I am going to spend some more time with it as is, change the bullet hardness and wring it out at full velocity. I've really enjoyed this cartridge, and really don't want to rechamber, but that may be my best overall alternative. Least I moved off center and quit making the same mistakes expecting different results. Seeing the dimensions has made it a lot easier not to expect so much from the little rifle and goes a long way toward seeking some real solutions.

Thanks for your help.

[jeff223]

John that sounds like my 357max contender.did you rechamber your barrel with leftoverdjs reamer?i did when i got my new 357mag contender barrel.my barrel is a great shooter with jacketed boolits but just so so with the cast.sometimes it shoots them so so then it shoots them real poor.in fact my tc contender barrel will out shoot alot of rifles at the range with a jacketed boolit.i would never rechamber it.i will keep tring to get results with it but if it doesnt come around i will just shoot jacketed boolits and let her shine.

hows the 180gr lee boolits shooting for you?and hows that new mold working out for you?

ha i got my 14inch 44mag barrel rechambered to 445 super mag.maybe that barrel will shoot cast for me.i will try some for sure.it should be a real thumper.i hear the Lee 310gr boolits shoot good out of some of the rechambered 44mag barrels that have been rechambered to 444.they should work out of the 445sm too.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif