Maven's Day @ the Range With the 6.5 Kurtz & "Helga"

[Maven]

All, I had a chance to cast (didn't have handles until the other day) and test fire the 6.5 Kurtz that Buckshot designed today. In brief, I was impressed with it and I think you will be too. Some particulars first. Mine cast ~.270" and weigh 133gr. Sizing them to .267", which Helga ( Mod. 96, "as issued" Swedish Mauser) prefers, took bit of effort, so be prepared: Maybe a light coating of sizing lube will help? Also, after sizing a few, I couldn't wait to find out what OAL they'd come out to. It was 2.74", which struck me as too short since there were no rifling marks on any of the driving bands. (Mind you this didn't stop me from loading 40 of them at that length.) As I could feel some resistance (but no rifling marks) when chambering several dummy rounds, I had the bright idea of resizing some nose first, which made almost the entire CB, save the tiny nose, .267". These could be seated long enough to engage the rifling; i.e., 2.79". I tried this with the LBT mold I mentioned last week and was about to sell and was also able to seat those CB's so they too would be engraved: 2.94" Not to gloat, but the mold is no longer for sale!

Testing @ 50 yds.:
Results with the 6.5 Kurtz & 15gr. WC 820 @ 2.74" OAL: 8 went into a 1" x 2 3/4" rectangle, one flyer (my fault) opening an otherwise OK group an entire inch. However, 3 went into 1" while the remaining 4 went into 3/8" x 1 1/8".

Results with the 6.5 Kurtz & 15gr. WC 820 @ 2.79" OAL (engraved by rifling): I only had 11 of these, but 8 went into 2" (2 flyers due to inattention; 1 due to a just cleaned bbl.). The best 6 went into 7/8" x 1 1/8" with 3 in 1/2".

Results with LBT 140gr. SP & 15gr. WC 820 @ 2.86" OAL: 8 went into 1 1/8" x 1 5/8" with 5 clustering into 1 3/16".

Results with LBT SP & 15gr. WC 820 @ 2.94" OAL (engraved by rifling): 10 clustered into 1 7/8" x 2 1/8". One flyer (poor hold on rifle) ruined what was a nice group (9 shots) that went into 1 1/4" x 1 1/2" with 5 of them in 5/8"!

Conclusions: Sizing the CB normally and then sizing it nose first may greatly improve accuracy since you can then seat the CB into the rifling: The improved results justify the extra effort required. Moreover, I no longer consider Helga Karlina's evil twin. Last and most importantly, the 6.5 Kurtz is an excellent performer!

[45 2.1]

Good report Maven. Buckshot didn't design that boolit, I did. He is the one who Honcho'd it. It's been sitting around along with 5 stablemates since the time of the cruise missle.

[Maven]

45 2.1, You did a fine job designing it!

[sundog]

Maven, ya big wuss! Handles? I suppose you probably use a sprue plate, too, instead of just wiping the top with a finger. Sheesh. And I thought all this time you were a 'boolit caster'.

Good report, and really glad to see someone give 820 a workout, especially in the 6.5. sundog

[Mel-4857]

Posted on the Mil forum but will thank you again for your reply . Plus read your above post. What sizer are you using. Lee doesn't make a 6.5 sizer(use them alot) but have a Lyman sizer but only saw a .264 available locally and bought it to seat gas checks. Hopefully I can get one in the same range as yours .267 . Got 3 6.5's to play with 2-96s and a 38. Three times the Fun? Mel

[Buckshot]

............Wish I could get the time to cast some up. In fact, I don't have ANY cast 6.5mm's on hand!

............Buckshot

[Maven]

Sundog & Mel, WC 820 is my "do all" CB powder for all my rifles except the .45-70 (only because I haven't tried it yet!). It produces excellent accuracy and "numbers" i.e., velocity, extreme spreads and standard deviations. It also can be thrown using a pistol powder measure (I use a Lyman, but the Lee Auto Disk is also usable.), which greatly speeds up loading. Sundog, I actually was tempted to try out the mold without handles, but as you indicated, I wimped out!

Mel, My sizing die is a Lyman .264" H & I (tapered throat/new production) that I had reamed out to .267". I don't know if Stillwell Tool & Die still does this, but it's worth a Google search and follow-up. On the other hand, it isn't too difficult to lap out a Lee push-through sizer via Buckshot's method (on Castpics) or by covering your CB's with lapping compound and running them through the Lee die. You'll need to check your work with a micrometer and uncoated, unsized CB after maybe every 5 passes depending on the coarseness of the grit you use.

[swheeler]

Mel; Lee will make you a push-thru sizer for 25.00, I ordered mine @ .266 although it sizes a few tenths over. I seat the gas check in the lube-sizer with a lyman 266 sizer die and their gascheck seater, then run them thru the lee sizer ,gascheck (base) first- if I run them thru nose first I get deformed checks. Lastly I run them thru the lube-sizer to apply lube. Seems like it took about a week to get the sizer from Lee.
Scooter

[carpetman]

swheeler---Scooter you are running them through to seat the check,running them through to size and running them through to lube and you are concerned about the time it took to receive the die?

[swheeler]

not concerned, letting Mel know what to expect!

[Scrounger]

Mel; Lee will make you a push-thru sizer for 25.00, I ordered mine @ .266 although it sizes a few tenths over. I seat the gas check in the lube-sizer with a lyman 266 sizer die and their gascheck seater, then run them thru the lee sizer ,gascheck (base) first- if I run them thru nose first I get deformed checks. Lastly I run them thru the lube-sizer to apply lube. Seems like it took about a week to get the sizer from Lee.
Scooter

I've always seated the gas check with the Lee Sizer. It does a good job and I don't ever recall seeing any gas check deformation. Works for me...

[Junior1942]

Mel; Lee will make you a push-thru sizer for 25.00, I ordered mine @ .266 although it sizes a few tenths over. I seat the gas check in the lube-sizer with a lyman 266 sizer die and their gascheck seater, then run them thru the lee sizer ,gascheck (base) first- if I run them thru nose first I get deformed checks. Lastly I run them thru the lube-sizer to apply lube. Seems like it took about a week to get the sizer from Lee.
ScooterYou're probably getting deformed checks from sizing without lube. If the checks won't hand-seat, seat them with the Lyman tool, then lube with Lee Liquid Alox and size. Or you could hand-lube them and size in the Lee sizer.

[swheeler]

I have several Lee push thru sizers, and they work as advertised, except the 266 one, it will pull one side of the gas check down even if I run the bullet thru the lyman lubesizer first, pushing them thru base first solves this problem, and NO tumble lubing them makes no difference with this sizer, but they are rolled on a case lube pad before sizing!

[Scrounger]

I have several Lee push thru sizers, and they work as advertised, except the 266 one, it will pull one side of the gas check down even if I run the bullet thru the lyman lubesizer first, pushing them thru base first solves this problem, and NO tumble lubing them makes no difference with this sizer, but they are rolled on a case lube pad before sizing!

You MIGHT need to chambfer that entrance to the sizing die. If that don't work, I'd send it back to Lee to be corrected.

[Scrounger]

I have several Lee push thru sizers, and they work as advertised, except the 266 one, it will pull one side of the gas check down even if I run the bullet thru the lyman lubesizer first, pushing them thru base first solves this problem, and NO tumble lubing them makes no difference with this sizer, but they are rolled on a case lube pad before sizing!

You MIGHT need to chamfer that entrance to the sizing die. If that don't work, I'd send it back to Lee to be corrected.

[swheeler]

MIGHT(mite on a chickens ars)

[StarMetal]

Well all, since Maven changed the rules for this new bullet, which were a higher velocity with accuracy then previous bullets and loads tried I guess I'll throw my two cents in and show what it does a 50 yards with a much higher velocity then Maven shot his at. The flyer out to the bottom left was first shot out of fresh cleaned barrel and I guess I can use the excuse, like others, that I was the fault for pulling that one out of group, which Carpetman would have been a one hole ragged group. These too were shot with surplus powder, but 4895, just hand throw charges and non weighed bullets loaded into the rifling, in other words just hastly cobbled together just to shoot at 50 yards.

Joe

[swheeler]

Joe; if you wouldn't have just cobbled them loads together, they might have turned in some decent accuracy!!! Try it again, only this time use what you know, take your time, do it RIGHT!!
I just love them thar capitols! he-he-he

[StarMetal]

Scooter, yup, next time I'm culling the BRASS, weighing the BULLETS, making sure the viscosity is the same throughout the LUBE, weighing my PRIMERS, weighing to the ten thousandths of a grain POWDER, uniform FLASHHOLES and DEPTH, you know, benchrest load em.

Hey here's a test for you. See how many you can get right without resorting to Google.

World's easiest quiz. Passing requires only 4 correct answers....a measly 40%.


1) How long did the Hundred Years War last?


2) Which country makes Panama hats?

3) From which animal do we get catgut?

4) In which month do Russians celebrate the October Revolution?

5) What is a camel's hair brush made of?

6) The Canary Islands in the Pacific is named after what animal?

7) What was King George VI's first name?

8) What color is a purple finch?

9) Where are Chinese gooseberries from?

10) What is the color of the black box in a commercial airplane?


Joe
P.S. Oh, it was an honest target Scooter, I could have kept shooting till they were all in one ragged hole, what for, the idea can be gotten by what's there.

[Mel-4857]

Thanks for all the ideas. Surplus 820 isn't available here (Canada) ;what's its burning rate close to. I do have a powder close to 335(wc735) and a coarse powder labeled N69 which is said to be faster than 2400. The 335 works well in the 303 British.The N69 I've yet to try. I do have Regular powders in 4227,4198,4759and2400 to try in the 6.5 Swede. Starmetal thats a great group. Something to strive for. Thanks again for all the info. Mel

[Oldfeller]

Har !! I done told you to sandbag it on the nice groups at high speed until we could publically capture all the loose sand to make Ray & Scrounger line up to eat it publically! Now they'll never agree to the bet ....

Oldfeller

[felix]

Joe, the 100 years war? Is it over? France and England are still at it. The english folks like central power, and the french folks like distributed power, i.e., states. You will never get the french folks thinking as a unit, and because of this you won't see the french govenment have much power. It will take another Joan of Arc that all the "states" will follow in unity. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Mel

I shot that with a scoped rifle, unless your rifle is scoped the striving isn't fair. Hey 335 is very close to 4895, you might give it a try.

Joe

[Scrounger]

Here's a good idea for a shooting contest. I'll put up a $5.00 Gift Certificate from McDonald's as a prize. Have StarMetal and BS Jr shoot for smallest group at 100 yards, any rifle, any sights. They can post a picture if they like but Honor System prevails, just tell us how small it is. Anyone else that feels lucky is welcome to enter also. CarpetMan should, it's right up his alley. I, for one, am scared of the competition; I know when I'm outclassed...

[Bullshop]

Scrounger
A 5 spot aint gonna cut it. Jr. can suck in them mak bergies like a black hole in space sucks in galaxies. I think he ate that moose he kilt last year all by his self. Since this time last year we have gone through A moose two caribou and two yak and we are about out of meat. Me and Jr. leave for the mountains in the mornin to go mix it up with Mr. Grizz. Jr. is all pumped up. Boolit orders is gonna have to wait.
BIC/BS

[KYCaster]

[QUOTE=StarMetal]
10) What is the color of the black box in a commercial airplane?

Orange?

[StarMetal]

KyCaster...yes sir, the black box is orange now, use to be black. They had a harder time finding them when they were black, so went to orange.

Joe

[Bullshop Junior]

Here's a good idea for a shooting contest. I'll put up a $5.00 Gift Certificate from McDonald's as a prize. Have StarMetal and BS Jr shoot for smallest group at 100 yards, any rifle, any sights. They can post a picture if they like but Honor System prevails, just tell us how small it is. Anyone else that feels lucky is welcome to enter also. CarpetMan should, it's right up his alley. I, for one, am scared of the competition; I know when I'm outclassed...
__________________________________________________ _______________
DID SOMEBODY MENTION FOOD? SPEAKING OF FOOD. I GOT TO GET THE FOOD PACKED FOR TOMORROW'S HUNTING TRIP, OR I AM GOING TO STARVE! YES, I KNOW THAT I SOUND LIKE SHAGGY AND SCOBBY DOO, BUT LIKE I HAVE A DOG NAMED SHAGGY AND SHE LOVES TO EAT. SPEAKING OF EATING I GOT TO GET THAT FOOD PACKED IN MY STOMACHE!
DANIEL

[Scrounger]

__________________________________________________ _______________
DID SOMEBODY MENTION FOOD? SPEAKING OF FOOD. I GOT TO GET THE FOOD PACKED FOR TOMORROW'S HUNTING TRIP, OR I AM GOING TO STARVE! YES, I KNOW THAT I SOUND LIKE SHAGGY AND SCOBBY DOO, BUT LIKE I HAVE A DOG NAMED SHAGGY AND SHE LOVES TO EAT. SPEAKING OF EATING I GOT TO GET THAT FOOD PACKED IN MY STOMACHE!
DANIEL

Jr, you should ask the CarpetMan to send you some of his "special" jerky to take on your trip. Guarantee you'll never forget it. It makes a purring noise when you chew...