View Full Version : Where to find slug recipes

11-04-2007, 03:55 PM
I am hesitant to improvise, given all the warnings I have heard on substitutions in shotguns.
I bought the Ballistic products slug manual and some 3"Fiocci's. I have a .715 and a .690 rb mold. They fit very sloppily in my smoothbore and rifled bbls.
I have a paradox style mold that casts 835 gr, .732 slugs. They slide perfectly into the Fiocci hulls. My rifled bbl slugs out at .729"
I find data for 1 7/8 oz shot loads, which is very close to 835 grs. Would this seem safe to use, given the .003 oversize slug?
Also, what to use for lube? I have speed green and rooster red on hand. Would warming this up and pan lubing work?
If I had an ultra-slug gun, I wouldn't be so worried, but this is a Mossberg 500.
Thanks in advance.

11-11-2007, 12:16 AM
I don't have my loading info to hand right now but I do have loads for 0.690" round ball in Winchester AA cups and they are anything but sloppy! I didn't think they'd fit but they do. I thought those loads were out of the BP manual but maybe not (I have several).

I can't comment on accuracy just yet but from the little shooting I have done they don't look too bad at 50 yards. I expected better considering the tight fit to the bore especially since I have read of BP smoothbore shooters getting 3" at 75 and 4 to 6" at 100 with tight patched round balls. More testing to come.

So far my paper patched Lyman Foster slug is the most consistent and reasonably accurate homemade slug I have tried. BP AQ slugs and Brennekes are the best factory slugs I have used. All out of smoothbore, I'm sure a rifled barrel would give much different results.

I won't comment on the paradox slugs but you might do a search for articles by Ross Seyfried. I have buried somewhere an old Guns and AMMO where he tested all sorts of modern slugs, round balls and even paradox type slugs. No loads published though if memory serves.

I do remember Ross Seyfreid commenting on lubes and he said that Brenneke (I think) technicians found all sorts of weird pressure changes using lubes. I can't see why it would be a problem myself but...

Here's something you might find interesting too: Well, didn't find it. Precision Rifle had a 700+ gr. slug for 12 gauge and pressure tested loads. I may have copied it but I couldn't find it on their current website.

I'll take a look for that and the 0.690" ball loads in cups. I'll post them when I find them.


11-11-2007, 03:58 AM
Okay then - I took a look through piles of stuff and didn't find a few things but found a few others.

Rather than pass on all the load recipes I did find, it is easier to tell you where to find the info yourself - or if you have specific components then I can look for a load and post it.

I have loaded 0.690" balls on top of card wads and to Lyman recipes using Winchester AA wads with the petals cut of. You are right, they are sloppy and accuracy is poor - or at least it was for me. I had a friend who used to load 0.715" balls on card wads and his accuracy was no better. Neither of these balls would fit tight enough to benefit from a rifled barrel.

The Ballistics Products slug manual does give recipes for 0.690" balls in shot cups so they "should" be more accurate. The 0.715" balls are just loaded on card wads and gas seals. I'm not sure how tight the 0.690" balls/shotcups fit the barrel and whether they would grip rifling. Even if the wad did fit tight enough the contact with the ball is small so there may be slippage.

The Lyman Shotshell Reloading manual also gives loads for 0.662" balls in shot cups and for o.690" balls on the bases of Winchester AA cups with the petals cut off - so no accuracy there.

Ballistic Products also has single page sheets of load data and again there are 10 loads listed all for Fiocchi hulls and in shot cups - mostly HCD24. If you want these I can post them.

I have to backtrack a bit here as the 0.690" ball loads I mentioned previously in Winchester AA shot cups were from the BP one pager with the AA wad replacing the HCD24 so I did substitute the wad but I also dropped the powder charge by 2 grs. I will be testing more but so far accuracy is not very good even at 50 yards.

I think a 0.725" to 0.730" ball would be the best and if the rifling twist was slow enough in a rifled barrel (about 1 in 109") I think a bore size ball of 0.730" or a couple thou larger would be ideal but I have never seen a recipe. Also, if it ever got into a choked gun there would be trouble.

Personally I like the idea of an undersized ball in a shotcup or a hollow base Foster style slug either designed to fit tightly in a shotcup or bore size. My Lyman casts at 0.705" so considerably undersize. My testing has shown that paper patching to bore size contributes to accuracy.

The Lee drive key slug is supposed to work well in both the smoothbore and rifled and fits into a shotcup. BP has Foster style slugs that fit into a shotcup and there have been a few others but most are around an ounze + or - a bit. There are lots of loads for 7/8 oz. to about 1 1/4 oz. but I certainly haven't seen any for a slug as heavy as your paradox slug.

I did find one article by Ross Seyfried but he was using factory slugs in an old single shot paradox gun. I didn't find the other article about his testing of umpteen different factory and custom slugs though I am sure he didn't list loads anyway.

Something else I have toyed with is to try to produce a homemade AQ slug. I bought some AQ's from BP and they were very accurate out of my Browning BPS smoothbore - 4" to 6" at 100 yards but very expensive for casual shooting. I have drilled 0.690" balls to make them the same weight as an AQ and made skirts for them. Accuracy was pretty good and I will try some more. The AQ is a bore size ball so gives better bore alignment - your 0.715" ball would be a better candidate than my 0.690".

What worries me most are using correct hulls and primers for a given powder charge and weight of payload. If the pressure is low enough I am reasonably confident that a change of wad isn't going to make a huge difference. For instance the 0.690" ball load I used was a BP recipe using a Fiocchi hull, Fiocchi 616 primer, 0.690" ball in an HCD24 wad at 8600 lup - I substituted a Winchester Waa12 and dropped the powder charge by 2 grs.

I did not find the Precision Rifle load. It was something they tried and published along with pressure test results and was a huge bore sized Keith style slug over an ungodly amount of Blue Dot. I think I didn't copy it Because I don't have a rifled barrel and I don't think I would want to shoot that anyway!

There are a couple of fellas on this site that have mentioned loading for rather heavy slugs so maybe one of them could provide a proven load for you to try with the paradox slug.

Another option that should be safe is to load up Pyrodex or black powder. Black would be a little dirty but Pyrodex might not work too bad and would clean up a little easier. Maybe one of the other BP substitutes would be good too.

Well, maybe I am telling you things you already know. In any case if you do want the Fiocchi loads let me know and for that matter if you want any of the others I can do that too. I have Several Lyman manuals, the BP slug manual, several BP single pagers and Reloading For Shotgunners. Also, IMR info, Alliant, Hercules, Federal and Winchester handbooks - much of these is available on line though.

Sorry to ramble so much.


11-11-2007, 11:22 AM
Sorry to Ramble?? Heck, man you went all out on the research! Thanks for all the effort.
I have the reloading for shotgunner manual and the BP slug booklet.
It was Ross's articles on 12 bore rifles that got me started on this lunacy to begin with. I had a .72 bbl made for my muzzleloader because of him.

I found some recipes over at shotgunworld by Greg Sappington for a heavier slug than my paradox.

I'm thinking maybe a teflon wrap to bring my .715 up to bore size would be the ticket. Not sure how that would work in a rifled bbl, but worth a try.
I wonder how using a lube-impregnated paper as a loose wrap in the shot shell would work for round ball.

It will likelly be Christmas before I get time to work on this project again, so there'll be lots of time to research.
Well, I've got 900 miles to make today, so I better get to work.

Thanks for the help.

11-11-2007, 02:14 PM
Slug recipes? If you catch 'em in a pan of beer you're off to a good start. You can bread 'em and fry 'em, or braise 'em and serve 'em with clarified butter like escargot if you want to get fancy.

11-12-2007, 03:55 AM
Ricochet ~ better you than me... and I don't normally drink beer out of a pan, is that a Southern custom?

As for SHOTGUN slugs - I finished a new mould today and cast some Foster variants.

I have never been too happy with my Lyman Foster mould because it casts at 0.705" so too big to fit in a shot cup and too small for the bore.

I have recovered fired slugs from soft wet deep snow and the skirts were all expanded unevenly. They were not deformed from hitting the snow as they still fit the barrel but even if they were the skirts were uneven from contact with the barrel - they either skewed or expanded unevenly entering the barrel. Paper patching helps but is a bit of a pain and 0.705" to 0.729" is either thick paper or a lot of wraps.

So, I decided to try making a Foster mould to a diameter that would fit into a Winchester AA cup. Not a new idea at all but I don't know of any mould that size available for a smoothbore except the Lee drive key slug and I understand it isn't very accurate out of a smoothbore - at least rumour has it.

Anyway, the slugs turned out nicely and amazingly enough the first go at the core pin turned out slugs weighing 450 grs.! I was going for an ounce but this is close enough to the Lyman and AQ to use the load data.

Diameter is a hair under 0.690" (a bit bigger than I wanted but...) so tight but I can push the cup/slug combo into the barrel. Snug but it fits. I got the weight in the nose and a really thin skirt I will fill with hot melt glue. It is a round nose with large flat point.

I will post photos tomorrow and with any luck maybe even a target.


11-12-2007, 02:14 PM
Slug recipes? If you catch 'em in a pan of beer you're off to a good start. You can bread 'em and fry 'em, or braise 'em and serve 'em with clarified butter like escargot if you want to get fancy.

You cook yours? I tried them raw and thought they weren't worth the effort to cook. Maybe it was all that beer that motivated me to try em. Nooo, I think it was the whiskey.

11-12-2007, 02:20 PM
Okay then, as promised, here is a photo of the new slugs:

- 450 gr.

- 0.690" Dia.

- fit tightly into a Winchester AA shotcup (and barrel of course)

- flat topped core pin with 5 degree taper because I find my Lyman binds something awful - this one doesn't

- skirt is about 0.050" thick ~ I was going for 1/16" to make it thinner than Lyman and keep more weight up front but stopped at this point to try.

- the top of the core pin is just ahead of the end of the radius so should not be a problem should one find its was into a choked gun (one of my fears with large diameter round ball or solid slug - no, not the braised ones)

So far so good, out of about 40 cast I threw about 10 back in. These aren't perfect but I would (and will) shoot them. There are some imperfections I wouldn't accept on a boolit but on a slug...?

I didn't manage the best surface finish due to home made tool holder malfunction so had another go, hence the reason for a little oversize and not as smooth as planned. However, these pretty much dropped right out of the mould so I must be close to center.

I will post results and load after they go bang.

Other tests to come:

- more 0.690" round ball in shotcup

- 0.662" round ball in Winchester AA shotcup

- if these don't do well then bore size modified Foster (and maybe with attached base wad like Brenneke)

Mostly I use 1 ounce and published load data for the same or very similar slug/wad combination. The 0.690" ball loads come from Ballistic Products.


Whoah, just previewed and the photo is pretty grainy so forget what I said about imperfections, these are peeerrrfect! (if you can't see 'em they can't be there)

11-12-2007, 03:05 PM
Don't forget, the beer the slugs drowned in is really good!

11-12-2007, 08:09 PM
Longbow; I had the same binding problem with my Lyman mould until the base pin got some of the blueing worn off. If you rap the hinge pin HARD a couple of times before you try to turn it seems to help. Every now and then I get a slug that will spin in the mould; I have a set of pliers to grip the slug gently while turning the pin. My mould drops .690 slugs that weigh 445 grains. I have 2 moulds, and they are the same specs. Right now I'm trying the Lyman data for SR 4756 and the BPI components with a fold crimp as I don't have a roll crimp bit yet. Accuracy is OK; about the same as the new style Federal F127RS with the plastic wads, but nowhere near as good as the old Classic loading with the same components as the handload. I think if I roll crimp the accuracy will improve as the crimp amount will be more uniform. I find that taking a short piece of 1/2 inch wooden dowel and seating the BPGS hard on the powder helps. I seat the fiber and card wads to 40 lbs. pressure, and seat the slug to 80 lbs. before crimping. I've tried 2 different hull mfgs. so far and the old paper basewad Federals seem to be more accurate than the RP Unibody loads. This may change when I get the roll crimper though. The loads in the Lyman SS manual are pretty easy to assemble.CB.

11-13-2007, 01:44 AM

Is that a standard Foster mould or the wasp waisted slug?

I thought all the Lyman Fosters were around 0.705" diameter. From the weight you give though it would be light for the wasp waisted slug.

Roll crimpers aren't real expensive but if you are handy and cheap like me they aren't hard to make either. I reshaped the outer cup from a truck universal joint and it works great.

I figure about 0.675" to 0.680" would be perfect to fit a shotcup. I find the 0.690 just a bit snug - doable but snug. I didn't get to try any this weekend but will shortly.

My 5 degree core pin works well and doesn't bind but the Lyman is bad. I had planned to make a new one for it and I think I will open up the mould to bore size. I can't quite figure out why they make 'em 25 thou too big for a shot cup and 25 thou too small for the bore.

I guess we are both wimps though shooting slugs just over an ounce when tommag is shooting 835 grs.!!!!!!!!! A hefty load with one of these is good enough for me though.

And last but not least I just can't even imagine beer with slug juice ~ yuck! But then again beer goes with most things, it's just maybe some things shouldn't go with beer.

11-13-2007, 06:30 PM
Hey, don't knock it till you've tried it! :drinks:

11-13-2007, 10:03 PM
Longbow; My moulds are the older 12 S moulds made in the 70s or 80s. The new moulds are supposed to be .705 and 475 grains. I emailed Lyman about using the data for the 475s with the listed components for the 475 and they said the chamber pressure would be lower because of the lighter slug. My A5 is still prettier than my face so they must know. I don't have access to any machine shop so I'll have to chew a slug and pay for one. The cheapest steel one is the Lyman part # 8898902 at around $19. Precision Reloading has a nylon one for $12. Their steel one is $25. BPI wants $30. I have to order some knobs for my HP moulds anyway, so Lyman will get the sale. The data for the Foster slugs in my SS manual #4 uses all BPI components, so that's what I ordered. I have to get the SS #5 and see if they have any substitutes for the BPGS like BPIs X seal or Obturator or the Gualandi seal that PR sells. I have enough factory stuff to hunt with anyway, so any more research will have to wait until next spring. Maybe by then the CFO will let me get more goodies and some cigars. CB.

11-14-2007, 01:45 AM

My Lyman mould was purchased in the '80's but I can't remember when - maybe mid to late '80's and it is 0.705" so I must have gotten one of the "new" moulds. I didn't realize they had made the Foster in a lighter weight and smaller diameter.

I gather from your comments that you are using a shotcup? If so do you find the 0.690" slug a little snug? I was going for 0.680" or a little smaller when I made this latest mould but... oops. Anyway it fits so I will try it out. I have 40+ just cast from ACWW that will be launched from a vintage Browning BPS with factory slug barrel complete with IC choke.

I will post results.

I took a look for the heavy slug loads tommag commented on at the Shotgun World site but didn't find them. Probably for the best - I am getting old and frail and I think those loads might loosen some pieces! I've been pounded silly already so too late for that.

And Ricochet - yuck... again! But maybe after a few beers...

11-14-2007, 01:02 PM
I believe that the slugs in beersky are called escargot. Double yuck. I haven't tried the .690 Fosters in a shotcup yet, but that is a possibility. I mic'ed a factory slug and they were .675 as close as I can tell. My .690 ones SHOULD shoot OK as my A5 loves the factory ones. I pan lubed them with bowl wax/paraffin mix to keep the leading down, and that may be a part of the problem as the factory ones have a film lube similar to Speer swaged bullets. I have a 3# coffee can full to work with. I may try Rooster Jacket paper patch lube for a lube. It all depends on what the CFO says I have money for. The Lee Key Drive slugs I cast are .675 and I loaded them just the way the data specs. Accuracy was disappointing to say the least; at least in the Browning. I found one load that the 1100 loves though. AA hull, WW 209, 38.5 AA #5, WW WAA12SL wad, fold crimp. The only load the A5 would shoot at all was Fed. Gold Medal hull, WW 209, 34.0 of Herco, and WWAA12 wad, fold crimp. I've loaded 6 different loads with what I have on hand, and those are the only 2 that stand out. The Jap barrel on the A5 is backbored, and I believe that may be part of the problem. I may buy an hourglass Lyman mould this spring, as a couple posters have positive things to say about them. I might even try paper patching some. CB.

11-15-2007, 08:38 PM

Are you shooting smoothbore? I'm thinking yes but...

The Lee slugs are meant to be loaded in a shoptcup but 0.675" sounds a little loose to grip rifling. The homemade slug mould I just finished was supposed to be 0.675" but as mentioned due to low level machining skills and tool holder failure (yeah I made it) I wound up with about 0.688" which is tight in a WW WAA12 but I can push them into the bore with effort. They are very tight in a Remington RXP hull but I wouldn't load those anyway - likely Federal or Fiocchi which they fit better (and they chamber in all hulls).

I would figure this fit to be good for rifled gun.

I have read recently that the Lee's don't shoot too well from a smoothbore but no personal experience. Also the same about the Lyman wasp waisted slug. It also is meant to be loaded in a shotcup so you shouldn't have to paper patch it.

So far my best success has been with Brenneke, AQ and Federal factory loads. I have also made some AQ clones which worked pretty well... but with a few flyers.

I have been at this for quite a few years but not steady like or real organized so slow going.
I am leaning towards a 0.662" round ball (exactly 1 ounce) in a shotcup with sleeve if necessary. That should fit through any choke if ever it got into a choked gun and is a convenient weight (lots of loads) and I just plain like round balls!

Alternately I plant to make another mould that is a 0.730" hemisphere with a short stub behind at about 0.625" (5/8") with felt wads tacked on like a Brenneke (or at least old Brenneke). This should fit the bore tight but small contact area so would collapse in a choke (yep that worries me) and act a lot like an AQ but easy to make at home.

11-15-2007, 10:16 PM
Longbow; yes, I'm shooting a smoothbore pumpkin roller. I thought about using a sleeve with the Lee slug as I saw them in BPI or PR's catalog. I figure to cut them in half and get 2 sleeves each as the Lee slug is real short compared to the Lyman foster. The Lee slugs I have are light also. Well under 1 oz. I may see if a buddy has any 20 ga. cards to put under the Lee in a WAA12 wad to keep the wad from climbing into the base when fired. The WAA12 loads sit deep enough to allow at least a .060 card. Worse case I'll get a new mould and see if I can beagle the diameter up to .690 or better. The slug is light so the added diameter should bring the weight up where it should be. I read somewhere else that the Fed 12S3 wad was the best one to use but I'm not sure. I loaded some with the 12S3 and they weren't any better than what I already tried. I still have some combos to assemble yet to see what they shoot like. Let me know how you make out. I'm ready to put my stuff on hold for the winter as deer season is here, and the weather looks like it may deteriorate into good hunting. I have the front end loader all prepped and ready to cough. 100 gr. RS powder, T/C black sabot, RCBS 44 240 SWC and CCI 11 1/2 caps. Bushnell scope. Soot and smoke. MMGOOD! CB.

11-16-2007, 10:22 AM
My Lyman "hourglass" 1 ounce slug recipe is as follows.

Federal Gold Medal Hulls
Win 209 Primer
WAA12R Wad
46gr Blue Dot
Star Crimp
CUP <10000

This load killed a deer last year at 167 Meters last year out of my rifled barrel slug gun using a 3-9 scope set at 6.

It will shoot 5" consistantly at 150 yards in my gun.

11-16-2007, 11:00 PM
WBH; thanks for the load results. I haven't got any Blue Dot on hand; those are some of the loads I have yet to try. I want to try some 800X loads too. I read in another post that the Fed GM hull and 32.0 of Herco with a WAA12F114 and 209A primers was a good one also. I just ran out of time for research; I have to see if the Red Gods of hunting ( as the late Bill Jordan referred to them) will smile or guffaw this year. Hopefully the flatheads will charge me again and try to sit on my front sight like they have in the past! My springoff is chomping at the bit to get his first, and we're going south next weekend to try. If not, I'll have to use the ML and take no prisoners. I sure wish the DEC would open the ML season in the southern zone BEFORE the SG season (like the northern zone) but so far no dice. At least I have the time to go now; sure was different when I was working all those 15-16 hour days of yore. Have a safe season and good luck. BFN. CB.

11-18-2007, 01:57 AM
Don't you just bread them and fry 'em? [smilie=1:

I always thought they were too slimey to eat tho. . . . . :???:

Sorry - couldn't resist. :-D


11-27-2007, 01:18 AM
Hey - guess what! I found the Precision reloading data for their giant slug (don't start drooling Ricochet this one is lead).

It is (was) called the Piledriver. I'm not sure how they came up with the name but from the load I'm guessing it knocks you on your butt.

The "Piledriver" is a bore diameter 610 gr. Keith style hollow point boolit sitting atop a plastic gas seal and 44 grs. of Blue Dot powder for 1472 FPS! Ouch - at both ends!

At 12,356 PSI this seems a lttle hot to me but that is the max load. Starting load is 36 grs. Blue Dot.

I didn't see this currently listed on their site though. My info is dated 2001.

A little late but better late than never.


11-30-2007, 12:14 AM
Thanks, Longbow.

12-15-2007, 11:03 AM
I have molds ranging from 705-880 grains. I developed my loads using IMR 4756, 4759, and 4227. The loads are accurate, but recoil can be heavy if velocity is high. I have pressure tested loads for the 880 that are okay for a 3.5" proofed gun, they will do 1500FPS+. The 3" loads will do 1450FPS. I have a Subsonic load that should be a decent "Plinker" if you can call it that.

I think there are some pictures on the Mold Forum here of my bullets.
I don't remember the topic.

12-15-2007, 12:57 PM
Here's one: http://www.bertc.com/slug_fritters.htm

Utah Smitty
03-29-2008, 11:37 PM
A friend and I are experimenting with developing 20 ga. slugs for use in a muzzle-loading shotgun. 20. ga slug molds are available from a few companies, but a bit pricey. Plus we're not sure as to the final configuration.

I've read in other posts about a pass-through mold. I'm not sure what that is, though I have an idea. Can anyone post a picture of one, or explain it in further detail. I want to see if it's something I can make on my lathe.

Utah Smitty