HI-TEK super coat and the 38 special

[Love Life]

S&W model 28 38 special HT Supercoat test
Gun: S&W model 28 with the Ultimate Duty Tune job from Mr. Warren at BC armory http://www.bcarmory.com/smithwesson.html
Boolit: 358429
Coating: HI-TEK Super Coat Red/Copper 2 coats
Powder: Unique
Primer: Remington SPP
Brass: Mixed HS trimmed to uniform length
Hold: 6 o’clock

DISCLAIMERS:
DO YOUR OWN LOAD DEVELOPMENT!!!!! If you take one of my random loads, stuff it in an I-frame, and blow your gun up I am not responsible.

My targets say standing, but the wind was pretty gnarly so I shot these from the sitting position. I leaned against my truck tire, propped my hands in the pocket of my knees, and fired A La Elmer Keith.

These loads were not shot from a ransom rest at 5,000 yds so take these targets for what they are worth

I don’t shoot pistols from benches as I have never been loafing the desert, seen a target of opportunity, and a bench with rest magically appeared.

I shot 8 shot strings. 1 cylinder full plus 2 extra except for the 5.0 gr target and 5.2 gr target. On the 5.0 gr target I fired 10 rds because I had to make the numbers work to load exactly 50 rds. On the 5.2 gr target I had a FTF due to this crappy batch of Remington SPP. Sure will be happy when they are gone. No it was not a light strike caused by the action job…

I ran a patch down the barrel between each string. No coating or leading on the patches, and the barrel stayed mirror shiny.

END OF DISCLAIMERS

4.2 gr Unique- Not my best shooting, but what can I say. This revolver likes greased bullets a bit faster as well.

4.4 gr Unique- Tightened up a little bit, but had vertical stringing. The shot to the left was a called flier, was the 1st shot of the 2 shot reload…true story.

4.6 gr Unique-Whoah Nelly!!! The 1st six are in that tight cluster, and I didn’t want to shoot the other two. Sho’ nuff the 1st shot from the 2 rd reload is the super low one and the 2nd shot is the high one. I’ll be testing this one at 25 yds with a 25 shot group.

4.8 gr Unique-Not bad at all. The two shots left of the vertical are from my 2 shot reload. Bummer. I’ll be testing this one at 25 yds with a 25 rd group.

5.0 gr Unique- Remember that this was 10 shots. This was my go to load with greased bullets. The two that are low left out of the group were all me, called, and were not during the reload. I’ll be retesting this one at 25 yds with a 25 rd group.

5.2 gr Unique-This only had 7 shots due to 1 FTF. Crappy lot of Remington Primers and not caused by the action job. I don’t recall pulling any shots from this group so I’ll have to shoot it again to confirm. It sows promise with decent vertical dispersion.

All in all it was a good time, and I now have solid points to work from to get my new desert/woods bumming load tuned in.

A little on the revolver. I got it cheapish and sent it off to Mr. Warren at BC Armory for his ultimate duty tune. I couldn’t be happier. Double action is SMOOOOOOTH, and the single action will surprise you. Has been reliable with all primers as well. I’m not sure how many thousands of rds I’ve fired through this gun, but it is a high number.

Dick

[btroj]

Looks like some good work. Keep us posted on further results.

I get my coating soon, I hope. Ordered it today!

[Love Life]

Did I mention how clean it is! :bigsmyl2:

Before I loaded this batch I cleaned all 7 sets of 357/38 special dies and they were GROSS!

I still don't know why I have so many die sets for the same caliber.

[btroj]

And I thought I splurged when I got a second set......

Clean is it? I had heard that before, once or twice.

[Love Life]

357/38 special dies are so common that they sell super cheap at show and stuff. It's hard to pass up a $10.00 set of dies.

My gun looks tired. Perhaps a trip to Goodsteel is in order.

[btroj]

Not tired, it looks like a faithful companion. Honest wear is to be treasured. It shows that the gun has seen many rounds go down range, it has been carried when needed, it has done all it has been asked to do.

While Tim can do an awesome job of rebluing your companion it would remove those memories.

[dverna]

Just curious, (please do not take this the wrong way) are these groups typical of what the gun will do with lubed bullets or better/worse? I realize you did not bench the gun so there is an element of "operator error" that only you can evaluate.

Don Verna

[Love Life]

Ahhhh if only this gun could speak. I have no clue as to its history prior to me but this revolver has been my constant companion.

It has fallen in the walker river with me when the bank gave out, it rolled down the hill with me when I tripped, it is scraped, scratch, and rubbed, but she has always done what has needed doing.

I really can't recall the number of Jack rabbits and Cotton tails that have been hit with 358477 and 358429 boolits launched from this gun.

This gun as been drawn and fired more times than I can remember. I rarely shoot 357 mags out of it, and have a large amount of 357 brass that collects dust and black widow spiders.

When I grab a gun with the intention of it to save my bacon, I grab this one loaded with a stout charge of Unique or 2400 under a 358429 all fired off with either a CCI SPP or CCI SPMP.

It's old, it isn't high cap, has no night sights, and doesn't cook breakfast for you, but she'll do what needs doing time and again.

[Love Life]

Just curious, (please do not take this the wrong way) are these groups typical of what the gun will do with lubed bullets or better/worse? I realize you did not bench the gun so there is an element of "operator error" that only you can evaluate.

Don Verna

More consistent with the coated boolits. I would get random "***" fliers from wax lubed boolits. I knew which shots I screwed up when shooting this one.

I have more testing to do and will actually bench it next time I head out (hopefully next week) to the Douglas Range and will report back. It's been awhile since I shot this revolver as I have been on a 1911 kick lately so we'll see.

I can definitely say it is not worse. Oh, and 4 inch barrel. I wish I had a collet crimp die for the 38 special like I do for the 357 mag. The collet crimp cut my 357 mag groups almost in half.

[btroj]

Ahhhh if only this gun could speak. I have no clue as to its history prior to me but this revolver has been my constant companion.

It has fallen in the walker river with me when the bank gave out, it rolled down the hill with me when I tripped, it is scraped, scratch, and rubbed, but she has always done what has needed doing.

I really can't recall the number of Jack rabbits and Cotton tails that have been hit with 358477 and 358429 boolits launched from this gun.

This gun as been drawn and fired more times than I can remember. I rarely shoot 357 mags out of it, and have a large amount of 357 brass that collects dust and black widow spiders.

When I grab a gun with the intention of it to save my bacon, I grab this one loaded with a stout charge of Unique or 2400 under a 358429 all fired off with either a CCI SPP or CCI SPMP.

It's old, it isn't high cap, has no night sights, and doesn't cook breakfast for you, but she'll do what needs doing time and again.

What more could a guy want from a gun? I have a GP100 I feel the same way about. It just works, every time, all the time.

[Love Life]

DVerna- I'll take some of my lovingly cast and lubed (traditional lube) boolits to shoot when I go reshoot the loads I have selected here.

I will do a fan fire and get back into the revolver groove on Saturday, and then shoot the coated loads, clean the gun, and shoot the traditional lubed loads on Sunday to give me a day in between.

I'll use a rest so I shouldn't get fatigued. I shoot full house loads so no target weeny loads here!!:bigsmyl2:

Unfortunately, even a benched revolver or auto is not 100% perfect. I need a ransom rest.

[Liberty'sSon]

I know it's probably reredundant ( my own special word) but has anyone tried coating w Hi Tek and lubing with wax lube and if so what were the results.

[Love Life]

I think Kweidner does. I don't as it would totally defeat the purpose of me using it.

[Ausglock]

Great report. Practical results from practical shooting.
Outstanding!..

[kweidner]

I know it's probably reredundant ( my own special word) but has anyone tried coating w Hi Tek and lubing with wax lube and if so what were the results.

I do use traditional lube too. Primarily on magnum stuff. Awesome results in both my custom DW 41mag and Smith .44. On softer BHN stuff I plan on hunting with it adds an extra element of protection. 1300 to 1500 fps is no joke for any lube IMHO without a GC. I have found at longer distances past 75 yards they fly a little better with both lubes. I also do this with my rifle stuff. Having said that I load these single stage. I load 9mm, 40, 45 etc on my Dillons. Not having to worry about gunk in the dies and using hardball, HT works fantastic. I just get better results in my hunting rigs using both and a softer bhn.

[kweidner]

Here are some groups shot yesterday with both lubes out of my .41. Rested 20 yards load testing new 6" bbl. 84372. Important to note I use a pretty strong crimp on my .41. Call the redundancy insurance.

[Love Life]

Looking at these targets again, I can honestly say that I suck and have fallen out of practice with the old work horse.

Saturday I'll fire a hundred rounds just to get my grip back, the feel of the trigger in double and single action, and to get used to shooting the revolver at those ranges again.

So Sunday when I shoot for groups again from the bench It'll give a better picture of how well the coating shoots.

[btroj]

You might get better targets if you didn't shoot the gun but rather would "send it"!

[dverna]

LL

You are 100% right. When I started reloading for my M52 S&W (40+ years ago) my mentor had a Ransom rest. It is really the best way to test. Our standard test was 50 shots at 50 yards. Benching is the next best thing, but without a scope I fear my old eyes just do not cut it anymore. And it is a LOT of work to touch off 50 well aimed shots with perfect trigger control!!!!

Like a fool I sold both the M52 and my old K-38 (it was one sweet gun). Now I only have a pair of Colt SSA that consume my .38 pistol loads. I love the .38/.357. They do not lead (even with that awful lube I stuff in the Star- LOL), there is little recoil, and they are accurate. I have two rifles in .357 and one in .38. Just plain fun to shoot and cheaper than .22's these days.

Looking forward to seeing your results. I have about 20k lubed .358 bullets so even if you get 1/2" groups it will be a long time before I consider HT. Still, I am interested in how these coated technologies develop.

Good luck on Sunday

Don Verna

[Love Life]

20131020 HI-TEK Super Coat Test
Gun: S&W model 28 4 inch
Caliber: 38 Special
Brass: Mixed HS trimmed to length
Powder: Unique
Primers: Remington SPP
Boolits: Lyman 358429 170 GR SWC
Lyman 358918 150 GR WC
Rest: Folding field chair with a sandbag on top
Target distances: 25 yds unless otherwise stated.

DISCLAIMERS:

DO YOUR OWN LOAD DEVELOPMENT!!!!! If you take one of my random loads, stuff it in an I-frame, and blow your gun up I am not responsible.

I was leaning against my truck tire with a folding field chair with a sandbag on it for a rest.

These loads were not shot from a ransom rest at 5,000 yds so take these targets for what they are worth

I don’t shoot pistols from benches as I have never been loafing the desert, seen a target of opportunity, and a bench with rest magically appeared.

I shot 25 shot strings. 50 rds of each load with 25 rds shot single action and 25 rds shot double action. For the Wadcutters I shot a 50 rd warm up at 15 yds. Then I shot the 25 and 25 of wadcutters at 25 yrds.

I ran a patch down the barrel after every 50 shots. No coating or leading on the patches, and the barrel stayed mirror shiny.

END OF DISCLAIMERS

3.5 gr Unique under Lyman 35891 15 yds: This was 50 shots just to warm up and get back to the feel of the revolver and get used to my expedient rest. I shot on 2 targets. The marked target I shot first and made some sight adjustments. I got lost in the wholes so I stapled a target over it. I then shot the remaing 30 or so shots into the unmarked target. What you see is the marked target hit with all 48 rds (shot 2 at a ground squirrel) and the superimposed target hit with approx. 30 rds.

3.5 gr Unique under Lyman 35891: Shot at 25 yds and all over the place for both SA and DA. This was a random load I grabbed from the loading manual.

4.6 gr Unique under Lyman 358429- If you look at my OP you will see that this was my “WHOA NELLY!!” load. It did pretty solid at 25 yds in both single and double action. This is why I like to shoot 25 rd groups as it eliminates any chance of a fluke.

5.0 gr Unique under Lyman 358429- Things tightened up considerably in both SA and DA firing. This was my go to load with wax lubed boolits, as it will be with the coated boolits. I can honestly say that the HT coated boolits had much more consistent accuracy with no “Where did that come from?” fliers. I have shot a few thousand of the wax lubed 358429 so I feel confident in making that claim. To shoot this after being a couple months without shooting the revolver I am impressed. I wish I had a ransom. Once again this is why I like 25 rd groups. It showed this load to be tighter over the 4.6 gr load, but if I had gone by my old targets then I would not know that.

Final thoughts- HI-TEK is legit. However; this is my final test of it for posterity. I have lost nothing in accuracy based off of my style/kind of shooting, and I have gained in consistency. Lacking a ransom rest I really can’t do anything else for you. Now I will get to practicing for myself with the 5.0 gr load. If interested I would absolutely give it a try. For a beginning caster who is not already heavily invested in lubesizers, I would look to HT Supercoat and some Lee dies and not even waste my time on lubesizers and waxes.

To the maker of this product- You need to get this into the hands of the people who can best test this product. Relying on random shooty mcshooter face to post results is kind of a bad idea. Also, you have cast boolit companies who have THOUSANDS of dollars invested in traditional lubed boolits and methods. If you expect them to change, and buy your product, then you need to have your product proven here. This is America and if you don’t jump, then somebody will develop a similar product, sell it cheaper, and hedge you out.

What you see in the pictures are the patches after every 50 rds. Each patch was run down the bore once and through the cylinders twice. You also see some recovered boolits. Both the wadcutter and SWC. The parts that didn’t smack into the ground show you that the coating is resilient.

That’s it. End of testing for this guy and I’m now going to focus on increasing my proficiency and having fun.

[leadman]

Love Life, you do know who Donnie's brother is, right? Donnie's last name is Mickelek, brother is Jerry. Who better to endorse the product? Except he probably has a bullet company or two that sponsor him. LOL
I was thinking if we could get Handloader to do an article on the product that would give it massive exposure. Maybe I can look up Dave Scovill here in Az.

[Love Life]

Oh, yes. I made the connection. However, I don't think he advertises use of HI-TEK, if he even uses HI-TEK.

Just for the record, Jerry is awesome.

That's what I meant. This product is legit, but right now there is really no major exposure in the U.S.

[btroj]

Exposure could mean a run on the product. You know how a simple magazine article can cause that. Can the suppliers in the US handle that? Heck, do they even want it?

[btroj]

Let's just make this out dirty little secret. Well, ok, our clean little secret.

[Love Life]

Super clean...

Wait for it...I'm just waiting for the people with no time, effort, or money invested in the product to come along and poo poo the product.

While we are a very do it yourself community, random joe billy bob doesn't care about how his home made lube works. All he cares about is that his glockenboomer doesn't lead.

I expect to see kicking and screaming from the traditional lube sellers, and possibly automated lubesizer producers.

[leadman]

I do see alot of resistance from the shooters here in AZ. about the coating. That is until they try it! It is difficult to get some of them to grasp the idea of how clean the product makes shooting, especially with revolvers compared to a wax based lube. Powder coat will do the same thing but the quantity of boolits that can be coated with HT is greater that is why I use it.
I recently bought some of the gold coating from Donnie and must say there is a small difference in how it coats the boolit. I think it is easier to get good coverage, not that it is that hard with the Red Copper. The gold does not seem to have the solids seperate as fast.

Going to coat about a thousand boolit tomorrow and hopefully load some ammo also. Goodnight.

[jmort]

"Exposure could mean a run on the product."

Not as long as ES PC seems to out-perform it.

[Love Life]

"Exposure could mean a run on the product."

Not as long as ES PC seems to out-perform it.

So the claim goes. I'll send somebody some 325365 to ES PC, I'll sit them over the charge ladder for jacketed, and we'll see what happens. I doubt they'll print sub MOA at 100yds and beyond, just like HI-TEK doesn't.

I think we're chasing our tails looking for TRUE jacketed performance from lead bullets with any of the coatings. Sorry, but 1-2 MOA is not jacketed performance.

That is the reason I still don't shoot cast from rifles. I'm not taking a step back in performance to save money.

[popper]

Lovelife - you may be close to wrong there. Consider a commodity rifle & commodity ammo, PC is close if not even. My LR308 carbine does the same with PC cast as a 168 Amax I load, MOA @ 100, ~ same fps. I'm just an average caster/loader/shooter/gun owner. Now if some BR shooter wants to try with PC we can see a valid comparison. I can send you some PC'd 0.310 165 gr PC/GC to try.

[jmort]

Don't disagree with any of that LoveLife. In the fullness of time a coating may come along that works for 3,000 fps MOA. ES PC seems to get the best accuracy and more FPS compared to other coating systems. If any one would know, it would be Popper as he has tried them all from what I have seen. I will defer to Popper on any of this. LoveLife, you are a man of action, and you call them like you see them, so why not take Popper up on his most generous offer?

[Love Life]

Unfortunately my 308 has been rebarreled to .243!!

Popper- If I send you some sized/checked 8mm bullets could you ES PC them?

[dverna]

LL

Although I agree that getting jacketed performance from cast will either be impossible or at least very difficult it may not be needed.

For example, a good AR 5.56 will get 1 moa with decent bullets but many shooters will be happy to have a cheap 2 moa cast load for plinking/blasting/3 gun etc.

Then there are mil-surp rifle shooters who are not going to get sub moa groups anyway but want a cast bullet to shoot inexpensively.

I am sure there are other examples where jacketed accuracy performance is not needed or can be compromised for the sake of economy.

The reality is that one persons needs/desires can be very different than yours or mine. I have seen this many times.

If I could purchase jacketed rifle bullets for $50/1000 I would never cast another rifle bullet. I cast to save money. There are others who cast for the joy of it. No single right answer.

[Love Life]

Good points Dverna.

My standards for my rifles are high. They cost good money, I expect them to shoot sub-MOA, they do, and I'm not willing to step back from that.

More experimenting is in order and I'm just waiting for the hard resin to show up stateside.

[btroj]

I have a bunch, like 29 pounds worth, of Lee 125 RNFP cooling right now. Going to see some action in my GP100, my Marlin 1894c, and my CZ75B.

That is a bunch of batches to cook but it isn't difficult, just lots of waiting.

[popper]

LL, I'd be glad to do that, if you don't mind red and a small 0.020 hole in the nose. They don't need to be sized. You could send some unchecked also if you want, I shot the H-T green in 30/30 and got 1" @ 50 without checks but at a slow fps. Someone here was testing in SKS without GC at HV and got reasonable results.
PC is working for me but that doesn't mean it's the cat's meow for everyone. More testing by good shooters will help determine it's real capabilities. I'm using the HF powder as it's what I have, maybe there are better powders. I am at the limit for my rifles.

[Ausglock]

I have a bunch, like 29 pounds worth, of Lee 125 RNFP cooling right now. Going to see some action in my GP100, my Marlin 1894c, and my CZ75B.

That is a bunch of batches to cook but it isn't difficult, just lots of waiting.

Those 125gr RNFP run sweet in my 38 Super too.

[Love Life]

Popper I'd love to take you up on your offer. I'll get some cast up out of Lino, pm you, and get them shipped your way.

[Gateway Bullets]

This is my humble .02 worth. Joe developed the Hi Tek Supercoat some 20 years ago to meet the demand in Australia. After many emails and phone conversations with him, the coating was developed mainly for handgun use. The shooters, seeing a good thing, then started pushing the limits and using it in rifle applications with decent results.

Now the coating is here in the states and again shooters are using the coating in handgun applications and again starting to push the limits of the coating in their rifles.

Its just like the early days of guys building a hot rod. They took the available technology and used it and pushed the limits until the manufacturers took note and started building performance parts.

This product is no different and should develop to rival performance of jacketed projectiles at a lead price. Just be patient and let Joe work his magic and I bet you will see 1moa from a lead cast bullet!

[Love Life]

I'm just waiting for the super hard resins!!! I love the coating for handguns.

[Ausglock]

it appears that the superhard is about 20% harder than the original resin.

[Gateway Bullets]

it appears that the superhard is about 20% harder than the original resin.

Trev, must be nice to be so close to Joe and get all of the good stuff first! Lol

[leadman]

I am going to load some 223 tomorrow and hopefully take these and the 120gr Saeco 30cal. boolits I have loaded up for my 1940 era Smith Corona Sporter and see what happens.
A friend of mine shot the Saeco boolits in his AR10 in 308 Win. at 2,700 fps and did get moa out of them. I asked him if he would test some more for me but he disassembled the gun and made it some other caliber. This was some old BW36 powder in trial loads as he had just put the gun together. I realize that is not full velocity for a jacketed boolit but was still good for most 3 gun target work and plinking.