Odd problem with 9mm lead bullet absent from FMJ

[celem]

I just started reloading 9mm Luger and experienced an odd problem with lead bullets that is absent from FMJ bullets. I have previously only reloaded 45LC.

Using a LEE single stage press I sized and capped 50 clean 9mm cases and charged each with 42.2 grains of Green DOT powder with a Lee Auto-Disk Powder Measure. I put a very light bell on the case mouth.

I weighed every 5th charge on a digital scale. I used a flashlight to peer into every case in the reloading tray to verify that they all were charged and of comparable volume.

I seated 40 of the charged cases with Berry 115gr copper plated 9mm bullets. The remaining 10 charged cases I loaded with a 115gr blue lubed lead bullet that I purchased at a gun show. They looked like Berry bullets and may have been Berry.

I ran all 50 cartridges through the factory crimp die, resulting in a very tiny crimp right at the case mouth of the copper plated bullets and on the lead bullets, examining under a magnifier, the crimp is really just an elimination of the bell - more or less a straight case.

Today I took the 50 loaded cartridges to the range for a test firing. The FMJ rounds fired beautifully and accurately except for one stovepipe. My mystery is the lead bullets. I fired 6 of the lead cartridges and 3 of them were squibs - the bullet lodged in the barrel near the breach. I thought that the The cap fired but maybe it didn't as there were some cases with unfired primers in my brass (which, unfortunately, got all mixed up). I assume that the powder did not fire as there was no Boom - yet, the slide was back a quarter inch and the squib was in the barrel - so I don't know - but I heard no boom and there was no flash and no smoke. If powder fell out when I racked the pistol I did not see it. Also, it was ultra-ultra-hard to rack the slide. The case was stuck partially in the chamber.

When I returned home I unloaded the remaining, unfired bullets to check the powder. All were loaded and the powder burned by match exactly the same as powder from the can.

I now assume that the lead bullet crimp was inadequate and the slide ramming home propelled the bullet into the barrel with inertia and, somehow the primer didn't fire. Odd - how could low primers only be on the lead loaded rounds? Makes no sense.

I checked the bullets with a micrometer. My barrel slugs at .356. The Berry copper plated bullets are .357 and the lead bullet is .359.

This is very mysterious to me? No more lead bullets for me until I can figure this out. I suspect that I need more of a crimp. Thoughts??

[ShooterAZ]

What is mysterious to me was how you managed to get 42.2 grains of green dot into a 9mm case:bigsmyl2: Welcome to the forum by the way...I'm sure someone who loads 9mm will help. I don't own one.

[williamwaco]

Most likely there was no powder.

The primer alone will propel the bullet into the rifling.
In most cases there will be no noise except the "click"

By the way - That factory crimp die is the absolute worst thing you could to 9mms with cast bullets.

Another by the way - do not crimp bullets in automatic pistols. Remove the flair but do not crimp.
If you can see the crimp - it is too much.
If you can see the flare, it is not enough.

See

http://reloadingtips.com/pages/loading-40-sw.htm

The 9mm is exactly the same steps. Just less powder and smaller bullet.

[celem]

My bad - 4.2. My finger stuttered!

[wistlepig1]

Welcome!
Those 9mm cases that can hold 42.2 are rare and sometimes called 20mm!:bigsmyl2:

[Sensai]

OK, you have cases with live primers, bullets stuck in the barrel and a slide that is not in battery. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that the lead boolits are too big to chamber in your barrel. They were jammed into the chamber and stuck there, then the case was "really hard" to extract because you were pulling them off of the stuck boolit. Try to do the "plunk test" with a round loaded with those boolits. If you don't know what that is, it's just checking to see if a round will drop into the chamber of your barrel that is removed from the gun. I suspect that these will not drop all the way into the chamber. Of course, I could be wrong. I was wrong about something about ten years ago. I thought that I had made a mistake, but I really hadn't. ;<)

[bhn22]

Semi-auto firearms are designed to not fire if they're out of battery. I'm also thinking that a few cases missed getting powder.

[500MAG]

OK, you have cases with live primers, bullets stuck in the barrel and a slide that is not in battery. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that the lead boolits are too big to chamber in your barrel. They were jammed into the chamber and stuck there, then the case was "really hard" to extract because you were pulling them off of the stuck boolit. Try to do the "plunk test" with a round loaded with those boolits. If you don't know what that is, it's just checking to see if a round will drop into the chamber of your barrel that is removed from the gun. I suspect that these will not drop all the way into the chamber. Of course, I could be wrong. I was wrong about something about ten years ago. I thought that I had made a mistake, but I really hadn't. ;<)
Gary,
I had the exact same problem. I thought I made a mistake, a few years back, but I was mistaken. :bigsmyl2:

[celem]

Sensai - You nailed it. Plunk test fails! As I said above, My barrel slugs at .356. The Berry copper plated bullets measure .357. The lead bullet's package label says that they are .356 but it actually measures .359. When I plunk a .367 Berry copper plated bullet its base rests at the bore throat, where the case neck would be. When I plunk a lead bullet it rests well above that point - about 1/8 inch.

What you described exactly matches what I experienced at the range and explained why the slide was so hard to rack - I was pulling the case off of the bullet that was jammed into the bore.

Thank you so much!

Thirty years ago I loaded mostly rifle cartridges and have only recently restarted reloading again and, until this 9mm effort, I was only loading 45LC for my Ruger Blackhawk revolver.


OK, you have cases with live primers, bullets stuck in the barrel and a slide that is not in battery. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that the lead boolits are too big to chamber in your barrel. They were jammed into the chamber and stuck there, then the case was "really hard" to extract because you were pulling them off of the stuck boolit. Try to do the "plunk test" with a round loaded with those boolits. If you don't know what that is, it's just checking to see if a round will drop into the chamber of your barrel that is removed from the gun. I suspect that these will not drop all the way into the chamber. Of course, I could be wrong. I was wrong about something about ten years ago. I thought that I had made a mistake, but I really hadn't. ;<)

[Jkallen83]

Another by the way - do not crimp bullets in automatic pistols. Remove the flair but do not crimp.
If you can see the crimp - it is too much.
If you can see the flare, it is not enough.


personally, i DO crimp my cast bullets. actually i crimp EVERYTHING rifle/pistol i load. gotta be careful not to crimp too much. but the reason i crimp is i've noticed that sometimes the recoil can make the bullet move in the case. so i started crimping EVERYTHING. on rifle bullets i use the crimp groove and crimp into it. on cast bullets i put a slight crimp so the brass "bites" the bullet. by doing this i have had no issues and no more bullets sliding in the casing due to recoil.

everyone loads different. u have to find what works for you and ur guns. i personally like having some crimp, some may even think i crimp too much on some but it works. of course, before u can figure out how much crimp, u just HAVE to over-crimp a bullet and totally screw it up lol, u just cant help it lol...

but once u find the happy medium, your good to go.

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Semi-auto firearms are designed to not fire if they're out of battery. I'm also thinking that a few cases missed getting powder.

I believe this is an incorrect statement. It doesn't apply to all semi-auto firearms.

[MtGun44]

All semiautos are designed to not fire if they are out of battery.

This is true. Otherwise, blown up guns would be extremely common. Most
have explicit design features, or in some, it is just not possible.

Bill

[fredj338]

What you have just learned is OAL is ALWAYS gun & bullet specific, regardless of what any data tells you. It is likely the round never chambered fully & you spilled powder & left the bullet stuck in the bbl. Most primer only strikes will send a lead bullet more than an inch onto the rifling.

[Danderdude]

I have a new CZ-75BD Police that was giving me fits. The barrel slugged at .356 but I was getting problems with chambering until I realized that the throat of these is only .03" long. Seating the RN boolits deeper solved all my issues, and now I stick to TC designs that clear the rifling easier without seating to extreme depths.

The rounds were made by the book but my epiphany came when a round failed to go into battery. I forced it the last couple of hundredths and then tried to rack the slide, "tried" being the operative term. When it finally came open, out spills the powder. The boolit was caught in that in the end of the rifling.

[MtGun44]

This is why I recommend the Lee 356 120 TC, and at .357 or .358 diam.

Bill