Lead Poisoning

[hswaters]

Anyone ever worry about lead poisoning? I was discussing casting bullets with a chemist friend and he was very concerned about lead poisoning?

[500MAG]

As long as you don't chew on the ww's you'll be fine. Keep your hands washed after casting and cast in a well ventilated area and you will have no problems.

[cbrick]

Rather minor concern. First and foremost . . . Keep lead and lead oxides well away from children, they are far more at risk than adults from lead poisoning. Second, do not eat it! You have to ingest it for it to do any harm. Use sensible precautions when handling lead sources. I have been casting for several decades and have my lead levels checked every year as part of a routine physical, the highest it's ever been is the low end of normal adult. Use good ventilation, don't eat or smoke while casting and wash your hands when finished plus I don't shoot in indoor ranges. Contrary to the main stream media these days lead is not radioactive, it cannot jump out and get you. It does not absorb through skin, you really do have to ingest it. Simply use common sense and there is very little to worry about.

Rick

[waksupi]

Your chemist buddy needs to stick to his field of expertise.

Welcome aboard!

[btroj]

I am a chemist, and pharmacist, and I don't worry one hoot about lead poisoning. If sat and shoot the stuff, I don't eat it.

The fears over lead poisoning are based upon lead paint and lead based glaze on pottery. Both involved eating the various metallic salts of lead, not the base metal. The base metal is very poorly soluble in stomach or intestine environments, the salts are readily dissolved and absorbed.

This chemist friend needs to educate himself on basic biology of the human gut.

[dondiego]

You are more likely to encounter and ingest lead while sifting the media out of your brass after tumbling or vibrating.
I have a chemistry background (worked in chem lab 32 years) and have worked with lead for that amount of time in the lab and have also been casting longer than that and I have never had a high blood test for lead. Don't eat it.

[hswaters]

As long as you don't chew on the ww's you'll be fine. Keep your hands washed after casting and cast in a well ventilated area and you will have no problems.


Dad blast it, I was really liking chewing on the wheel weights. Thanks for the helpful reply.

[John Allen]

There goes my PBL Sandwiches I guess I have to go back to jelly.

[Stephen Cohen]

I had very high levels many years ago, I and 5 others were hired to sweep up and remove all the dust from battery factory. None of us had any idea what the dust was until we finished the job, we were not wearing any masks at the time, I was told during the tests that lead in a weathered state could be absorbed through sweaty skin. But as mentioned proper safety precautions will prevent problems.

[oscarflytyer]

Don't eat the damn bullets! Don't eat while you are playing with them! Other than that...

And, a bunch of the guys around here have had high lead levels. I cast, shoot a lot of lead at indoor range, and (supposedly the culprit) tumble brass. SOme of the guys tumble indoors, I tumble outdoors ever since I heard of the tumblers catching fire.

All this, and my lead levels are normal. And been shooting, and loading all my life. Casting over the last cpl years, but shot lead bullets for last 30 yrs... I am convinced the guys here are either doing something stupid, or it ain't the bullets/shooting!

IF you are worried, have Doc check your lead levels during annual physical. I so now. Have to ask special for it.

[quilbilly]

As long as you don't chew on the ww's you'll be fine. Keep your hands washed after casting and cast in a well ventilated area and you will have no problems.
That is all you need to remember.

[bangerjim]

There are several threads on here about this. It comes up ever couple months. Do a search. And not worry as long as you follow the above excellent advice.

Other advice.................ignore liberals, greenies, and gun-grabbers (same thing). They do not know what lead even it. Or they think it is the stuff in their pencils. That's the next thing the low-educated greenies will go after.........graphite "lead"! HA.....ha.

banger

[hswaters]

Thanks for the information folks. I just wanted to check with the experts so that I did not have to wonder.

[dilly]

What others have said is true. I'd like to expand a bit on the higher exposure risks of lead. From what I have read, spent primer compound is the worst source and the most hazardous accumulation is in a dirty brass tumbler with dry media. If you are very concerned about it, a wet tumbler with stainless pins will prevent dust from floating around and allow the "toxicity" to be washed down the drain harmlessly. It is also one of the best ways to clean brass in its own right, so it is not a compromise.

Look into absorption of metals. I'd take my chances swallowing lead shot over ingesting much smaller amounts of dust or maybe fumes.

[MtGun44]

Lead poisoning is possible if you eat or smoke or drink around the casting area with
contaminated hands. Air is not a significant vector, but your hands in your mouth sure
are. Also be aware that most MDs are NOT up on this and many have, in their ignorance,
scared the bejesus out of members here that showed up with a 12 mg/dl blood lead
reading. Turns out that 10 mg/dl is the limit for CHILDREN, the limit by OSHA for every
day exposure for your whole life is 40 mg/dl before there needs to be any change in work
conditions. If you don't eat, smoke or drink with lead contaminated hands and just wash
well before doing these things you will be FINE. Shooting a lot on an indoor range, especially
if it is poorly ventilated is bad.

Bill

[Boyscout]

Talked to an old printer who worked around linotype for years. Proper hygiene and good ventilation over the years and his lead levels are very low. Don't overheat the stuff and eat while working with it. I would think he would have had a lot of exposure,

[gwpercle]

I asked my doctor about lead testing. I cast , and shoot lead boolits but the main reason I asked was the lead fragments that are still in my body from a gunshot wound. The dentist showed them to me on the x-rays he had made to repair some damage the bullet did to my teeth. The surgon in the emergency room told me they couldn't get all the bullet fragments out and they were going to have to stay there... So when I asked my doctor he said "don't worry about it, as long as you dont eat lead it won't hurt you. The alarmist have blown the issue all out of proportion . You're not showing any indications of needing an expensive test." So I'm not going to worry about it.
Gary

[cbrick]

hswaters, here is a bit more advice. Make sure your chemist friend NEVER starts casting.

Two benefits of this will be he never has to worry about the horrible health risks of it and even more important there will be one less person in your area competing for scarce wheel weights. :mrgreen:

Rick

[Smoke4320]

so I should stop the lead and protein shakes ? :) :)
guess I will have to go back to Uranium 234

[Dale in Louisiana]

One of the biggest hoots I had this year was presenting the OSHA-required "Lead Hazard Awareness" to our workgroup. In addition to the corporate-approved PowerPoint presentation, I brought my own training aid, a 500-grain .460 dia. boolit for my Trapdoor.

"This is lead. At 1200 feet per second, it will KILL you. If you use it as a gum drop or a suppository, it won't."

Elemental lead is not hazardous. When it converts to various salts and other compounds, it can be. Good personal hygiene will eliminate most of the other hazards, unless you dump a ladle-full of the liquid stuff on your lap.

dale in Louisiana

[hswaters]

hswaters, here is a bit more advice. Make sure your chemist friend NEVER starts casting.

Two benefits of this will be he never has to worry about the horrible health risks of it and even more important there will be one less person in your area competing for scarce wheel weights. :mrgreen:

Rick

I cannot find any wheel weights in my area. All of the tires seem to be sold by the big companies and they have a system of sending the scrap wheel weights to a central warehouse and from there who knows? They are a production line approach to sales and installation and don't have time to talk about wheel weights. I have to depend on ebay or rotometals.

[detox]

I worry more about my pets getting lead poisoning. I stay far away from their water and food bowl. I do not pet them until my hands are washed and clean of lead.

[super6]

I thought red lead was to be feared..Not elemental. What is the difference?

[MtGun44]

Red lead is a particular lead oxide, 3 lead atoms with 4 oxygen atoms. Any lead that is soluble in your
stomach acid will wind up in your blood, makes no difference if a compound or pure.

Bill

[btroj]

Metallic salts, in general, are at least somewhat water soluble. They are often far more soluble in acid like found in the human stomach. Nothing gets absorbed well in the intestine that isn't either water or fat soluble.
Metallic lead is very poorly dissolved by the HCl found in our stomach. This poor solubility means the metallic lead passes thru the gut unchanged and Not absorbed into the system.

In college I did a test on wheel weight composition. This required dissolving a sample of pure lead, pure antimony, and pure tin, along with a sample from my wheel weight. I found that this required a combination of concentrated HCl and HNO3 along with time and heat. By time I mean better than 30 minutes at a rolling boil. This to dissolve a sample that was around .1 grams, around 15 grains maybe. Don't remember much more than that, this was done in 1988.

Think of all the odd things kids or dogs eat that pass thru unchanged. Why? Be causer he body can't break them down or alter them to allow them to be absorbed. Sort of a human body protective mechanism.

[snuffy]

HS, your next ? might be "what about lead vapors"?

You'll see terms like smoke, fumes, and vapor used interchangeably, when referring to what comes off molten lead that is of concern. Smoke will happen whenever any sort or carbon comes in contact with hot lead. You use carbon bearing stuff to flux hot lead to re-combine the tin and antimony back into a metallic state. It smokes, then if you're at the right temp, will spontaneously ignite. Waxes are what most use, but wood sawdust is the best fluxing agent. Allowed to char then the ashes left floating on top of the melt to create a barrier from the atmosphere.

Fumes could describe anything coming off the melted lead. There's a certain smell of lead that permeates the air in the casting room. Maybe that's fumes? Fumes are NOT vapor. Vapor is what we need to be worried about. However, lead does not vaporize at normal casting temp. Some say it needs to be at 1200 degrees, others say as low as 1050 deg. Our electric furnaces cannot reach even 1050! HOWEVER if you cast over an open flame, be it propane, wood fire, or natural gas, the lead can easily get to vapor producing temp.

Breathing lead vapor will get it to where it could be absorbed through the lungs. I'll leave it to the chemists here, but that seems to be a more direct route into our bloodstreams. But as I said, at normal casting temps, it not a problem.

Hygiene is the most important factor. And keeping kids out of the loading room unless under strict supervision. Boolits are NOT playthings!

[Gtek]

Let's see- grew up riding around in car not in a special seat smelling cancer sticks, rode my bikes without a helmet, played football for ten years, God only knows how many hours running around with .177's in my front lip on the safari of the day, played with mercury a few too many. If I do have some drain bamage it is minimal. I am far more concerned about the constant exposure to idiotic progressive liberals! Gtek

[LIMPINGJ]

One of my grandfathers worked with lead his whole working life, he worked into his 70s. Think about all the water systems in this country that delivered water to the public through lead pipes. Like your mom taught you, wash your hands and face before you eat and don't suck your thumb will keep it out of your system. As Dale mentioned the only kind of lead poisoning that will most likely kill you is the high velocity kind.

[sackot]

I had one slight concern about this recently. My workshop is an old barn, in a very windy place, so if I open the door and a window enough of a gale howls through that it always seemed sufficient for ventilation. However, I flux with sawdust, and have been noticing that the day after I can smell sooty burned pine hanging around. As it comes from the pot, I've been wondering whether I'm depositing lead oxides on surfaces along with the soot.

I'm not losing sleep over it, I suspect the quantities are minuscule, but the doubt has crossed my mind.

[detox]

Kids and 177-22 cal pellets. As a kid back in 1968-1974 i would put a few pellets in my mouth for easier access when hunting with the Crosman airrifle. I would shoot then spit out another pellet to load. I may have swallowed one or two[smilie=s:

[MtGun44]

As snuffy says, lead VAPOR does not significantly happen until far above casting temps. Vapor pressure
of lead at casting temps is something like 10^-5 torr, which is about 2 ten-millionths of one psi. It isn't
zero but darned near to it.

Bill

[S.B.]

Rather minor concern. First and foremost . . . Keep lead and lead oxides well away from children, they are far more at risk than adults from lead poisoning. Second, do not eat it! You have to ingest it for it to do any harm. Use sensible precautions when handling lead sources. I have been casting for several decades and have my lead levels checked every year as part of a routine physical, the highest it's ever been is the low end of normal adult. Use good ventilation, don't eat or smoke while casting and wash your hands when finished plus I don't shoot in indoor ranges. Contrary to the main stream media these days lead is not radioactive, it cannot jump out and get you. It does not absorb through skin, you really do have to ingest it. Simply use common sense and there is very little to worry about.

Rick
I teach hunter safety and have introduced many a grandchild to shooting and always tell them to make sure to wash their hands thoroughly after handling any ammo. I was told that lead poisoning affects mostly children under 8 years of age?
Steve

[btroj]

Lead is a far bigger danger to kids than adults. It can mess with learning ability.

Hygiene and common sense are your friends here.

[cbrick]

The main reason lead was removed from paint is because the young'un's tend to eat things like paint chips, chew on things like window sills etc. Lead does effect the ability to learn in yet to fully develop brains. After about the age of 7-8 years the pathway lead takes to the brain is closed off and that threat no longer exists. That's not to say that if your past 8 years old common sense doesn't need to be exercised, of course it does but that particular threat no longer exists. When sanding a surface painted with lead paint the dust in the air is breathed in and while lead cannot be absorbed through skin it can be absorbed in the lungs which is why/how shooting in a poorly ventilated indoor range is not good.

Keep kids away from casting areas, wash your hands after handing lead and simply use common sense and there is very little to cause concern or health problems.

Rick

[capt.hollis]

That's my biggest concern when casting are my kids! I Have a 2 yr, and a 4 yr old. Kids are like Raccoons, anything shiney they will grab it, and thd next thing you know it's in there mouth! Though my kids haven't messed with my stuff as of yet, I know it's coming, that's why I clean it all up when I'm through. The biggest fear is one of them running into my work bench and spilling that molten lead all over them. As of now I'm designing a table for my casting that is going to be kid proof, hell its even going to have a stainless cover to go over the table with a latch. I do not trust my kids!!! Lol! They are very sneaky creatures!

[ashlyngr]

I've had two Lead Level Blood Test. They were two years apart. The most recent (2'nd) shows my lead levels are down from the first. My lead levels are barely detectable. So I will still use my protective equipment and worry more about other sources of contamination.

Bruce

[Hannibal]

Based on my amateur observations, riding in an automobile is the single most dangerous activity we nearly all undertake. Other than driving an automobile.
If it bothers you, look for a safer hobby. And good luck in your quest.

The opinion expressed herein has been provided free of charge. And it is entirely possible you have received your money's worth.

[BNE]

I have been exposed to more lead in the last year and a half than my first 43 years put together.

I made an exhaust hood over my casting pot, smelt outside, and wash my hands after each exposure. I was careful, but not paranoid.

I was worried about my blood levels until I got the results: NO LEAD LEVEL DETECTABLE.

As all the guys stated above, COMMON SENSE PRECAUTIONS are enough.

Lead is much more dangerous at high speeds.....

[historicfirearms]

I am not too concerned about my casting activities and lead positioning for the reasons already stated.

One thing that is of concern to me is the leaded aviation gasoline that I am around daily. I'm no chemist but if anyone reading this is one, I'd like to know if the tetra ethyl lead additive is able to be absorbed through skin. Also, are the burned or unburned fuel vapors dangerous to inhale?

[whisler]

Organo-lead compounds are much more easily absorbed than inorganic lead compounds. Tetra ethyl lead is an organo-lead compound so the answer is yes. The burning of leaded gasoline is said to have been a major contributor to lead poisoning in children in densely populated urban areas with interstate highways running through them. Inhalation of high concentrations of any hydrocarbon, like gasoline, is not good. A whiff or two is not going to be that bad, in my opinion. I was a chemist and worked with both hydrocarbon solvents and lead (pigments) and even radioactive materials and, with reasonable precautions have been able to survive to almost 72 with reasonably good health