First time caster, so many questions.

[fal_762x51]

Hello all!

My background consists of building various military type rifles, collecting milsurps, and reloading. However, I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to casting. I tried to read everything, but my eyes can't handle it and I have to be at work tomorrow.

First I know I need to slug all of my bores :coffee:. Once I establish that, I want to use Lee molds. I'll cast primarily for my bolt actions (No4, K-31, Ishy 2a, Krag, Type 99, Mosins, Mausers, and Carcano) first to get the hang of casting before I move onto semis (SKSs, Saigunov, AKs, Garand, FALs, and maybe a 1919a4?) and pistols (1911, Nambu, Webley, P38, Nagant, PA63, and CZ52). I hope reloading cast boolits for all of these are remotely possible, the 1919a4 might be out of the question, but you never know.

Let me start off by asking some simple questions:

1. I want the hardest boolit that will not harm my bore, but will not lead it up: Linotype or Hardball?

2. How do I find the right type of boolit for my bore once I find the groove diameter?

3. Using the right gas check and boolit lube?

4. The powder, 2400 for bolt actions(?), but what about pistols and semis?

5. I need major help figuring this all out.

I want to say in 3 months that :castmine:.

-Patrick

[wiljen]

First off Welcome to the board and the addiction.

I think you are on the right track with the exception of the fact that I would start out by casting for your pistols and work into casting for rifles. You'll find that getting good results out of pistols is much easier than getting those results with long guns, so learn on your pistols first, it will save you much frustration. As far as the bolts vs the semi's, I find casting for the SKS and the M1 to be no harder than for the #4T or the Mausers so you may not need to work up to casting for your semis.

1. I want the hardest boolit that will not harm my bore, but will not lead it up: Linotype or Hardball?

Gilding metal jackets are harder than any lead alloy. As long as you stick with lead,antimony, and tin mixes it is impossible to create an alloy hard enough to harm your bore. That being said, Linotype has a higher bhn than hardball alloy.

2. How do I find the right type of boolit for my bore once I find the groove diameter?

Most people will tell you that a bullet with driving bands .001-.002 over bore diameter and a bore riding nose of the diameter from land to land will produce the best results as it cant wobble in the bore.

3. Using the right gas check and boolit lube?

This is a can of worms. The gas check part is easy Hornady or Gator checks work.
The lube discussion has been had since the dawn of this board and continues today. The easiest thing is get either Liquid Alox and tumble lube or Lars Red and either use a lube sizer or pan lube. (Lars advertises at the bottom of the page)

4. The powder, 2400 for bolt actions(?), but what about pistols and semis?

2400 is great for rifles, kinda the standard by which others are judged. It will work well in your semis too as you are not loading full house loads. Many people worry about gas port pressure with faster or slower powders in semis. This is only a concern if you are using a full power load that generates enough pressure to be a problem. With my semis, I use the minimal charge that cycles the gun, this usually works best anyway as it gets harder and harder to find loads that group well as velocity increases. You'll probably find that most semis will cycle with loads in the 1800fps range and that you can get good accuracy out of something in that range as well.

For pistols, most loading manuals have loads listed for lead. There is also a ton of data floating around this board and castpics.net

I'll give you one for the 1911 since its one of my favorites. 5.0gr of bullseye, winchester LP primer, and a 230gr RN (Lee TL or Lyman 452374). This is still the standard by which all 1911 loads are judged for me. I've found a few loads that shot better in one gun or another but nothing that shot as well in all of em.


Good luck and again welcome to the board.

Wiljen

[Bass Ackward]

Pat,

The real secret to cast is not to look at the big picture, but to disect it in steps. One thing at a time. Otherwise, you spend ten times the amount of time worrying as you do beginning to mold.

Every subject you can imagine is available to you from the search feature. The biggest factor for you is going to be mold choice and not really bullet design. You need to learn how to fit your bullet and there is tons of information for doing just that. Just remember to back out to begin your search (bar at the top) to cover all the boards.

Take it one step at a time and that will make it fun.

Welcome to the board

[Bret4207]

Don't worry about "the hardest alloy" bit. You need to start with the simple stuff, 'cuz about 50% of this is art, rather than mechanics. So start with plain old wheel weights and go for a simple plinker load in the 11-1400 fps range in the rifles, 6-800 fps in pistols. That may seem sissyfied and like something for kids. Well, you didn't climb into the seat of a Formula 1 car to learn how to drive did you? Besides, WW are still free of cheap and work good. The rest you have a handle on. Read the back pages here and maybe pick up Lymans Cast Bullet Handbook and you should be well prepared.

[RU shooter]

Welcome!
I started off here about a year ago similar to where you are wanting to cast for my various Milsurp rifles. First use the search feature on this site ,there is a ton of info you can discover using just that. and the people on this site are the friendliest most helpful on any site I was ever on so dont be hesitant to ask for help if you need to.
If you want to use some Lee molds as you stated for your 30 and 31 cal rifles I would recomend the Lee 312-155 and 312-185 Both have shot great for me in Mosin's, K31, 2A enfields, and 03A3.
For your powders Yes 2400 works well in rifles but so does Unique,Red Dot and Bullseye and some others that will work in your pistol's too. And if you keep your vel. below approx. 1400fps. you dont need to use a gas check and still get excellent accuracy.
As others have said Casting is 50% science /machanics and 50% art, Theres no magic or voodo abilities needed . So just jump in ,get your feet wet and have fun with it:-D BTW dont be suprised if you cast loads stat to easily outshoot Milsurp ball ammo!!!!

[223tenx]

I'll bet Adam and Eve argued about which lube to use.

[NVcurmudgeon]

fal, welcome to the board. You have received good advice from the previous posters. That is an example of the kind of help available here. My two standard bits of advice to new casters are:

1. Read everything you can find about cast bullets, especially the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. Then you will know which questions to ask here.

2. The hardest alloy you can get can be the best for some purposes, especially very high velocity. It can also be a cause of leading. After 35 years of casting for rifles, and over 40 for pistols, I have settled on wheelweights plus 1-2% tin for all casting. If the boolits fit, it is a good alloy for 700-2000 fps, and if they don't fit, you're not going to have much fun.

[fal_762x51]

Thanks gentleman. I printed some threads to read at work today, hopefully it'll help. Thank you once again.

[mooman76]

What they said, and welcome to the board!

[testhop]

welcome to the board any thing you dont understand there will be someone with the answer
and happy to help

[KYCaster]

fal: Welcome aboard.:drinks:

I recommend starting with your 45ACP. It's probably the most cast friendly cartridge ever made. Get a mold for the H&G #34...its a plain base 230 RN that's very close to the original GI ball bullet. Every mold maker has a copy of it. (There's a link at the bottom of this page to "Castpix" where you'll find illustrations of various maker's molds.)

Start with wheel weights...all the handguns you listed should work well with ACWW. If your boolits come out wrinkled, then clean the mold and/or turn up the heat. If they're not wrinkled but still are not filled out well (rounded corners that should be sharp), then add 50/50 solder at 2oz. per 10 lbs. of alloy and try again. If results still aren't good, add another 2oz. If that still doesn't work, come back here and ask why.

Lube with Lar's 50/50 or Carnauba Red, size to .452 and load them over 5.2gr. of W231 powder to an OAL of 1.250, then taper crimp to a case mouth dia. of .462.

Instant success GAR-ON-TEED or double your money back...[smilie=1: Unless you have an unusual 1911 this recipe will work fine. It will let you get some experience with a user friendly mold and cartridge before you advance to chapter two.

This site is the best cast boolit resource available. If you don't find the answers to your questions here....you won't find them anywhere.

Enjoy

Jerry

[Buckshot]

................Get the Lyman Cast Bullet manual. Read it at work. It will answer a lot of questions. Not trying to get out of answering any questions, but simply trying to pare the length of the reply down a tad :-).

Getting good results with cast isn't so hard. Consists of Art, Science, Voo-Doo, common sense, some inspiration, a bit of aggravation, and a smidge of intuition.

Not like sticking a Sierra something or other in a case over X grains of 4895 and being good to go. You're a bit more a part of the equation then that, and that's the satisfying part.

..............Buckshot

[wiljen]

fal: Welcome aboard.:drinks:

I recommend starting with your 45ACP. It's probably the most cast friendly cartridge ever made. Get a mold for the H&G #34...its a plain base 230 RN that's very close to the original GI ball bullet. Every mold maker has a copy of it. (There's a link at the bottom of this page to "Castpix" where you'll find illustrations of various maker's molds.)

Enjoy

Jerry

The two molds I mentioned are Lyman's and Lee's copies of the mold Jerry recommends. The lyman is a close copy, the Lee is a Tumble lube design but Lee makes another 230RN that also a very close copy. The Lee or Lyman is probably cheaper and easier to find than the H&G at this point. Saeco also makes a good 230 RN mold if you happen to stumble on it at a good price. It is hard to go wrong starting from one of these in the 45.

[crabo]

Another thing that would help is to work with one cartridge at a time. Work up good loads and results with one cartridge and then move to the next. I have 3 more calibers waiting, not so patiently, in line for when I finish the one I am working with now.

[fal_762x51]

Should I use gas checks for the .45acp load?

[corvette8n]

Hey Patrick welcome
sounds like you have a C&R FFL with that collection of milsurp.
I treat my WWII and older guns gently and shoot 8-10gr of Unique under a cast bullet at 50 yards, just plinking fun, like shooting a .22. thats in the bolt guns.
I havent worked up anything for the semi's yet. Too many guns and not enough time.:castmine::Fire::(

[MtGun44]

There are relatively few hard and fast rules in this game, and
we nearly always hedge as there are lots of exceptions ---
but I am very confident in saying --
No even remotely sane 45 ACP load needs a gas check.

Gas checks are primarily necessary on extremely high pressure
loads or more commonly very high velocity (for cast say
over 2000 fps, but this varies A LOT!). In general, pistols
other than the magnums at max loads do not need gas
checks, and most problems with leading are TOO HARD [smilie=1:
of bullets, not too soft. The conventional commercial caster
is super proud of his "hard cast" bullets. These are often too small &
too hard for normal pistol loads and this hardness prevents
them from bumping up to fill the bore when the pressure hits them
so you get gas leakage and this melts the bullet's sides and
causes leading. A softer bullet will bump up to fit, if it is undersized,
which many molds provide. A properly fitted bullet (bore + ~.002")
doesn't need to slug up, so hard will probably not lead, but
you don't need hard for the great majority of uses. I shoot max
loads in both .357 and .44 mags all the time with zero leading and
no gas checks with straight wheelwt alloy, not heat treated. This
is not unusual at all. Way too much is made of needing hard bullet
alloy or heat treating. Not that it is never useful, just much less of
the time than a beginner would think from much of the stories.

You will need harder alloy for 20th century military rifles, as a general rule,
than for pistols and 1870s to 1930s lower pressure straight case
type rifles. You will be surprised at how much of your shooting
will be just fine with straight air cooled wheelwts, maybe with some
tin to help fill the mold, not to harden the alloy.

Try 10 gr of Unique under a "normal weight" cast bullet in any of
the 20th century bottleneck military cartridges and you will
be pleasantly surprised most of the time. You mentioned 2400
and it is pretty std in these bottlenecked mil cartridges, too.
About 16 gr +/- seems to usually work with 2400. Add or
subtract a few grains, these are really light loads, very safe.

The Lyman book that has been recommended has a lot of
the answers. If it doesn't make sense, frame a good question
and there will be folks here that know the answer and are
happy to share. Many times there is no single, simple answer
but you will get 3-4 good things to try, and at least one will
almost always work, often more than one.

Welcome and enjoy. :-D

Bill

[Morgan Astorbilt]

I haven't seen "Cast Bullets" by Col. E.H. Harrison and its supplement recommended by anyone since posting on this site. It goes into much more depth than the Lyman book. It's published by, and is available from the NRA. Is it out of print?
Morgan

[Char-Gar]

Welcome to the board and to the craft. I have only one piece of advice... Don't get scattered, but pick out one rifle and stay with it until you have gotton over the initial humps of cast bullet shooting. Forget about the others for a while, and focus on the one.

You have many that would do well with cast, but being a Krag fan, I have to suggest you start there. The Krag has been around along time, and there are many, many cast bullets that will work in this great rifle.

[USARO4]

Welcome to our obsession FAL. All the members above have given you good advice. You will find a great bunch of guys here who are willing to share their experience. I would just add- study, study, study, and take baby steps to get yourself started. Start with your handgun first, you will be pleased with your first successful results. Before you know it you will be hooked and you will find yourself constantly experimenting and trying things you read about here and coming up with your own projects to share with us. It's a fascinating and rewarding hobby, plus you save money which you can invest in more CB stuff.

[fal_762x51]

Well I did it, ordered $200 worth of stuff from Midway. I started to polish 5k of .45acp cases in anticipation. Is there another online company that deals with only casting materials?

Also, fluxing the molten lead with say, critter pine bedding be suitable?

[wiljen]

Should I use gas checks for the .45acp load?

No, waste of $ and no advantage in 45 where you cant get a load past about 1000fps.