22LR replacement caliber

[Wadestep]

So... The other thread about .22LR being expensive is getting me thinking. What caliber rifle would be a good replacement for the verenable .22 for cast boolits. Some priorities:
1) reloadable centerfire brass
2) works well with cast boolits
3) Cheap to shoot!
4) Not too big a caliber - good for shooting squirrels. Hopefully less than 50 grains.
5) good out to at least the same ranges as .22lr

some things that would be nice:
6) availability of rifles and brass (hopefully for a reasonable price
7) maybe 20% or so more power/velocity as .22lr - but still not too big for squirrel hunting and easy plinking
8) rifles in bolt action (not just single shot) for under $500. Hopefully less. Semi-auto a plus but noc neccesary.

Any ideas out there? the other thread mentions a 25-20 but rifles are expensive and scarce. How about 22 hornet? I already have a .243 that could fit the bill, but was trying to get a closer replacement to the .22LR.

[338RemUltraMag]

22 Hornet with a 37-45 gr cast boolit loaded with oh idk 2 gr of bullseye should be in the 22 LR range. Others should chime in shortly.

[ShooterAZ]

Agreed...22 Hornet. 38 Special with the Lee 105 SWC for handguns comes to mind also.

[Garyshome]

A 9 mm carbine with a red dot. Cheap to reload for, small caliber although range is limited? Anything you have brass and boolits for? Mosin? [although ammo is getting costly]

[KYShooter73]

Whats wrong with .223? Brass is cheap and easy to come by, plenty of molds, load whatever powder charge you want. You should be able to get it down to 1400fps easy enough. It wouldnt cycle a semi-auto, but thats not the purpose.

[bhn22]

This would be my choice too. You could load it down to 22 mag levels if needed, plus had the possibility of a top end that could work for deer in a pinch. I'd probably prefer a bolt rifle for this myself.


Whats wrong with .223? Brass is cheap and easy to come by, plenty of molds, load whatever powder charge you want. You should be able to get it down to 1400fps easy enough. It wouldnt cycle a semi-auto, but thats not the purpose.

[bruce drake]

An E.R. Shaw 22-250 barrel in 1-14 twist will convert any surplus Mauser into a nice squirrel/rabbit rifle without breaking your bank. A BATOR 55gr FN mold from MidSouth Shooters (see ad above the thread) and 4-5gr of Red-Dot or Unique is more than enough to drop old Mr. Redtail or his buddy Brer Rabbit out in the woods or fields.

Dies are under $30 and Brass is usually readily available or can be converted from 243 Rem or 308 Win brass and some trimming and neck turning.

Bruce
(yes, I own a setup just like this.)

[Wadestep]

I'll be looking at those suggestions. I just didn't think it likely that a 22 caliber designed to shoot >3000 FPS would be the best choice for a 1400FPS cast load. (ie22-250 or 223) But then again, why not? If a 223 bolt action would fit the bill, I'm sure they are plentiful. That 22-250 on a mauser rifle sounds interesting, too. I'll check out these ideas.

[7br]

Whatcha got on hand? I happen to have a contender barrel in 22 hornet and like it a lot. One of the cool things about this hobby is you tailor what you have into what you need.

[338RemUltraMag]

Problem with the 223 is finding one without a fast twist, most now a days have a 1-10 or faster where a 22 Hornet will have a 1-14 or 1-16

[country gent]

22 hornet is great fun and very cheap to load and shoot another is 218 bee. Both are simple easy too cast and load for and have a lot of history behind them. For pests around te house and buildings ( woodchuck size and smaller) the Hornet and Bee have replaced the Long rifle for me. A charge of lil gun and Hornady 40 grn v max puts the lr to shame. Hornets can be hard to find but do show up occasionally. A great cartridge and rifle to just have fun with.

[robroy]

my vote goes to the hornet. I bought one ( Ruger 7722 hornet) several years ago replace a 22mag. I see no reason not to load at 22lr velocity and weight. I'm looking for another.

[detox]

22 Hornet Thompson Contendor with shoulder stock. Ugly, but well balanced and lightweight. My Thompson has a 14" barrel which makes it not legal to use shoulder stock, but who is looking.

A "NON" gas check boolit would be my first choice. One of the smaller Lyman moulds would heat up easier than some of the larger moulds.

22 Hornet Winchester brass has less capacity than Remington brass. I would use Winchester brass for light loads and Remington brass for max velocity varmit loads.

Linotype alloy would be easiest alloy to cast with.

[Frosty Boolit]

I second the 9mm carbine. This is exactly what I was going to say because I have the .40 s&W and it is a hoot to shoot and cheap too. It wpould probably make a mess of a squirrel though with the 180 grainers I use , so the 9mm makes a great replacement.

[bruce drake]

Loading the 22-250 with a 55gr boolit at 1600fps gives me MOA at 50 yards with 4gr of Unique in the Mauser. It has a Flatpoint on it so it does the same thing most 22LR Standard velocity solid point lead bullets do. It kills squirrels fast.

The 1-14" twist works just fine at this velocity. I built it so I could have a cartridge that I could use an affordable Mauser action with. With us casters being reloaders as well, it stands to reason we can build loads with different velocities for different purposes. I do have 22-250 loads that go close to 3000fps out of this rifle. But they are jacketed and at 40gr will destroy most groundhogs out to 300 yards (iron sights - no scope on this rifle).

Bruce

[grumman581]

Just for S&Gs, I loaded some .223 rounds with some 55g bullets that I cast from the "Bator" mold and shot them in my Thompson Encore. I think I was using 2.0 gr of Red Dot with a small magnum pistol primer. Never checked it for accuracy though.

[Jupiter7]

My oldest boy progressed into centerfire with a Rossi 92 in 38/357. It's the easiest replacement I had for him. Low noise, recoil and powder charges make it a joy. It'll ring steel at 100yds all day.

[detox]

Some primers are allmost as loud as a regular 22 long rifle boolit. Is it difficult to make the Hornet as quiet as a subsonic 22 CB?

[otter5555]

i load my .223's w/ 3.6 gr of greendot under a 62 gr homecast rn. avg near 1400 fps, costs 5 cents to load. brass lasts many lifetimes. in my rifles and contenders its only a 1 minute load but at least it's cheap.

[dtknowles]

I have a .22 Hornet in a Ruger #3 and think that is a good choice but I think a .30 carbine would be a good choice as well just don't know what guns beside the original carbines, HandiRifles, Contender/Encore, Blackhawks.

Tim

[Tdart]

If you want something just a little bit different (something I'm often accused of), why not go with a wildcat. A 22-25acp comes to mind...

[bruce drake]

22-25ACP wildcat. Teeny little bottleneck cartridge with a teeny powder space which would require a fast pistol powder for combustion. nice thing about other cartridges in the 22 caliber family is that although the bullet maybe tiny at least the cartridges can be handled with a modicum of dexterity while allowing for a spread of powder choices.

Bruce

[NoZombies]

I've got some .32 rifles (as in .32 S&W long or .32 long colt) that do nicely, but unfortunately they are neither common, nor generally repeaters.

I've been thinking about getting another .222 with a 1-12 or 1-14 twist, as the round is nearly perfect for cast with it's long case neck, and slightly reduced capacity compared to the .223. One of the handy things about the .222 is that .223 brass can be made into .222 brass quite easily, thereby also reducing costs.

[Blammer]

Air rifle in 22 cal may be the way to go.

[felix]

Brass cost is a nit compared to the other costs, so don't even think of that. One thing to consider, though, is that the bolt for a 222 and 32 pistol are perfectly commensurate when assuming a Sako (flexible) claw extractor. Do I hear a switch barrel jobbie coming? Perhaps, but who needs a repeater anyway. That's what your lever guns are for. ... felix

I might strongly consider purchasing your best 32 shooter as is to help fund this endeavor. I already have a 222 (222/40^) bench gun. ... felix

Stay with 14 twist!!!! ... felix

[376Steyr]

.221 Remington Fireball, if you can find one.

[leadman]

I have a 22 K-Hornet rechamber from a 22lr barrel for my Contender. Velocity from 800 fps to 3,000 fps are doable with the Lyman 45gr RN.
I also have a pellet conversion for my 223 Rem Contender. Uses a case modified to take a shotgun primer and with a couple of dimples in the neck the pellet stays in place. At 15 yards the group is one hole, then the fouling degrades accuracy. Boy, is that primer fouling hard to get out! Velocity is just over 600 fps.

[detox]

Air rifle in 22 cal may be the way to go.

And i can shoot it in my yard. My 22cal Marauder pistol is deadly accurate and has enough power to kill most small game. The barrel is baffled (silenced). You fill it to 3000psi with scuba tank or bicycle type foot pump
http://www.crosman.com/prostaff-picks/PROPICK007

[aspangler]

223, 5.5 gr #9, 58 gr cast, spm primer. 1375 fps moa or less. Use 1-12 twist and bolt gun. Enough power to take the occasional coyote and good for whislte pigs at 22lr ranges. Good small game load.

PS costs me about 6.5 to 7 cents per round.

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

I've been shooting a lot of 223 out of a 10" Contender barrel with a 1:12 twist using a lyman 225438 over a charge of green dot or unique. Cheap and fun.

[Pakprotector]

And i can shoot it in my yard. My 22cal Marauder pistol is deadly accurate and has enough power to kill most small game. The barrel is baffled (silenced). You fill it to 3000psi with scuba tank or bicycle type foot pump
http://www.crosman.com/prostaff-picks/PROPICK007

Blammer and detox have it right...though allow me to fill in some detail. You specified LR performance, this is possible but with cast boolits. A Marauder will make a fine platform, apply a modified valve body, and install a 14" twist, .224 barrel liner from TJ's. Or start with a Discovery( also a Benjamin ). The biggest issue is the barrel twist rate will restrict you to about 45 grains...and there is as yet no 12 or 10" twist liner available( though I may have a mandrel made if I get enough power easily ). A 225415's slug moving 950 fps at the muzzle is 110 FPE and accuracy should be MOA to past 100 yards with some care in the build.
cheers,
Douglas

[RickinTN]

I've got some .32 rifles (as in .32 S&W long or .32 long colt) that do nicely, but unfortunately they are neither common, nor generally repeaters.

I've been thinking about getting another .222 with a 1-12 or 1-14 twist, as the round is nearly perfect for cast with it's long case neck, and slightly reduced capacity compared to the .223. One of the handy things about the .222 is that .223 brass can be made into .222 brass quite easily, thereby also reducing costs.

I'm thinking the 222 with a 1-14 twist might be ideal too. The long neck just screams cast to me. I already have an unfired CZ 222 sporter that I may dig out and toy with this winter.
Another thought, and I would have to check Tennessee regulations, but is it legal to use a center fire rifle for small game? I think I remember it is not in Tennessee.
Rick

[Elkins45]

300 AAC Blackout is my recommendation. Use 110 grain boolets designed for 30 carbine and make your brass from old surplus 5.56 military.

I know it's more that 50 grains but there are some real advantages IMO.

[grampa243]

i'm running cast in 223 and getting 22mag performance and full funtion of an AR action. and the cost is about 6.5 cents..

boolit= 62gr ''225-62-1'' from HM² molds, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?201684-HM%B2-223-62gr-molds-225-62-1-6-cav
barrel= 1-8 twist .223 wylde chamber mid-length gas tube.
powder=IMR-4198 14.4+ grains

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've been thinking about getting another .222 with a 1-12 or 1-14 twist, as the round is nearly perfect for cast with it's long case neck, and slightly reduced capacity compared to the .223. One of the handy things about the .222 is that .223 brass can be made into .222 brass quite easily, thereby also reducing costs.
We must be on the same wavelength !
I bought a savage mod 24 this spring, 222 on top of 20ga.
I like it so much, I've been watching auctions for a bolt action rifle in 222. I missed a few.
BUT, this one fell through the cracks, I got it with only the one bid.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=368185623
Savage 340 in 222. it's not here yet...but soon.

I'm hoping my 223 load with Red Dot and a 60gr boolit works as good or better in this 222.

Auctions are funny things, I had been watching for any 222 rem on GB. I used the search words "222 rem" Then for some reason I searched for ".222 rem" this rifle and a few others came up with the second word search, but not the first word search. I think that is why I won it with only one bid, it didn't come up on searches because of the decimal point.
Good Luck,
Jon

[quilbilly]

If you are thinking 22 caliber, I load the 222, 223, and 22 Hornet with cast. Of the three, the hornet and the 222 were easiest to get shooting accurately with cast most likely due to the longer neck. It has taken a lot longer with the 223 and is still a work in progress.
Of course, brass is the cheapest with 223 since it can be picked up off the ground at any shooting pit. Excluding the price of brass, each round will cost about 9 cents. On the other hand, I also have carbines in 9mm and 357 max which I shoot at 22 LR velocities (mv 1200) with plain base boolits. Both of those cost about 8 cents a round, are very accurate, have little recoil, and have some serious "authority" on varmints up to 100# at under 100 yards.

[Chev. William]

Devils Advocate: As I understand the OP request, he want a CF reloadable Cartridge in a reasonable price rifle with a multiple shot capacity, with around 50 grain cast bullets adn about .22 Long rifle performance.
A 18 inch barreled lever rifle with bore and groove dimensions for the .25ACP/6.35x16mmSR Browning cartridge would yield around 1100fps with factory ammo and if handloaded with the Carolina Cast Bullets .25ACP Ranch Dog 50gr Lead RFN bullet, can be pushed to higher velocitys, o rloaded down for short range quiet hunting use.
Hint: look for a 'shooter' Stevens Favorite chambered for the .25 Stevens RF cartridge (can be found for from $150 to $300 listed in auctions), and have the barrel set back and chambered for the .25ACP and convert the Gun to CF., Teh .25ACP Factory Loading is about the same length as the .25Stevens short but will duplicate the Ballistics of the .25 Stevens Long.

My own 'project is converting a Marlin Model 56 levermatic to .25ACP. I have the Donor Rifle, barrel Blank and bolt on hand to do the change over, I just need to work up magazines to fit the cartridge to the rifle.

I also am experimenting with a 1894 Stevens Favorite that I bought on Gun Broker that is being converted to CF and I already know it will chamber the .25ACP in it's .25 Stevens Barrel, which slugs .248" Bore and .252" Groove diameters. I am going to live with the 'long chamber' as I am also working on reforming and trimming down .22 Hornet cases to match the .25 Stevens Dimensions. The cut down hornet holds 9.0 grains of fffg Black powder (about 1 grain less than the original Stevens RF loads) lightly compressed behind the 50gr lead slug. i am hoping my Gunsmith will get the CF conversion done by mid December or so. Also writers in 1890 claimed the .25 Stevens was an accurate target cartridge OFF Hand out to 200Yards. and was also a good "Pot Meat' Cartridge as it did not destroy as much of the meat as the .22 Long Rifle did.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[chsparkman]

I developed a couple of loads this summer for my Ruger #3 in .223. A 45 gr. with Green Dot that groups one-hole at 50 yds and a 55 gr. also with Green Dot that shoots the same POI but not quite as accurate. Jim's data was the inspiration for my trials. Watch out squirrels!

[Digital Dan]

.25-20 Winchester will work in this mode. SS or leverguns are available.

[Jack Stanley]

I'm with the idea the .223 Remington would about cover all you'd want but if the price was right on a Hornet or triple duece was to show itself it wouldn't last long . I loaded round ball in a .308 Winchester for tree rats many years ago and it worked very well . If you already have a thirty caliber you are most of the way to your goal . I added the round ball mould and a H&G number sixty-seven and was duplicating the 32-20 Winchester .

Currently I'm using a Savage with a fast twist and it does about as good , sometimes better than the rimfire . Fifty-eight grain bullet , and either bullseye or 700-X to push it along . Brass lasts a long time and the four cavity mould makes a lot of bullets in a hurry , I use liquid Alox and a bit of paste wax for lube .

Pick about any rifle you like and I think you could make it work .

Jack

[Artful]

Air Rifle is the way to go - cheaper than 22LR even before - you can get several caliber's from 177 to 22 to 25 all the way up to 50 if you want to spend the money - 22LR performance if you want supersonic - but for plinking quietly keep it 1050 fps or under. You can cast for 'em but pellets are so cheap they are better off bought.

[cbrick]

The 22 Hornet, 30 Carbine or 32-20 all fit the bill for the OP, all three of these are available from T/C in either handgun or rifle. For the Hornet the Lyman 438 or RCBS 55 gr and for the 30 Carbine the Lyman 311410 at 130 Gr, Miha had a group buy for the 311410 that very recently closed and it's possible he may have a few left. I'm shooting the 30 Carbine in a Blackhawk using 32-20 brass (for the rimmed case) and the 32-20 in a 10 inch Contender. With the Miha 311410 in the Blackhawk it's right @ 1,000 fps with mouse phart loads, accurate at squirrel distances and the HP devastates them.

What the OP wants to do is very doable in all sorts of ways.

Rick

[ballistim]

The 22 Hornet, 30 Carbine or 32-20 all fit the bill for the OP, all three of these are available from T/C in either handgun or rifle. For the Hornet the Lyman 438 or RCBS 55 gr and for the 30 Carbine the Lyman 311410 at 130 Gr, Miha had a group buy for the 311410 that very recently closed and it's possible he may have a few left. I'm shooting the 30 Carbine in a Blackhawk using 32-20 brass (for the rimmed case) and the 32-20 in a 10 inch Contender. With the Miha 311410 in the Blackhawk it's right @ 1,000 fps with mouse phart loads, accurate at squirrel distances and the HP devastates them.

What the OP wants to do is very doable in all sorts of ways.

Rick

I have the 22 Hornet, 32-20, 30 Herrett, and .357 Max in TC Contender barrels to try out with my several of my new NOE & MiHec molds, planning to use my new 311410 in both the 32-20 and 30 Herrett. I've used cast in both the .22 Hornet and 32-20 with reduced cast loads several years ago and have used roundball loads with pistol powder also for use instead of .22 LR for pests and plinking and have had loads of fun with them! I've shot rodents before using cornmeal fire forming loads for the Herrett, very effective! I've held off lately because of the primer shortage but will be giving it another go real soon. Have fun!

[uscra112]

.25-20 is my first choice. Actually .25-20 Single Shot.

.32-20 is also high on my list. Easier to cast for, IMHO. Good lever-gun cartridge.

I also like the .32 S&W Long, but as has been pointed out already brass is hard to come by.

Hornet? Well, I like the Hornet, and I have one, but if I'm going to go high pressure I'll go .223. Will do anything that a Hornet will do and reach out 50-75 yards farther when using j-warts.

[kenyerian]

Love the hornet. i like the 225107 37Gr. FN 4 cavity GC That NOE made for the group buy. A little bit of alloy goes a long way casting 37 grain boolits. Cheap shooting.

[jaysouth]

I have two H&Rs that would fit the bill. The first is a .223 with 1:12" twist. I shoot it with 4-5 grs. red dot with a cast bullets a friend casts. I may get the bator mold from Mid-South. The other is a Topper in 30-30 with a 16.5" bbl. I load 7 grs. Green Dot with a 165 Ranch Dog or a 113gr. Lee.

By the way, Midsouth, fine folks indeed, is out of stock on both Bators, 2 cav and 6 cav and NOT accepting backorders. Tough news.

If you cast your own, a 30-30 with reduced loads will make you never go back to .22RF.

[NoZombies]

We must be on the same wavelength !
I bought a savage mod 24 this spring, 222 on top of 20ga.
I like it so much, I've been watching auctions for a bolt action rifle in 222. I missed a few.
BUT, this one fell through the cracks, I got it with only the one bid.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=368185623
Savage 340 in 222. it's not here yet...but soon.

I'm hoping my 223 load with Red Dot and a 60gr boolit works as good or better in this 222.

Auctions are funny things, I had been watching for any 222 rem on GB. I used the search words "222 rem" Then for some reason I searched for ".222 rem" this rifle and a few others came up with the second word search, but not the first word search. I think that is why I won it with only one bid, it didn't come up on searches because of the decimal point.
Good Luck,
Jon

That's a Great looking gun Jon!

I've got a 340C in .222 on the way to me as well, with a proper vintage weaver K-6 scope to boot.

I'm looking forward to the endeavor, as I traded away my model 24 in .222 a few years ago, and still have brass, dies etc left over.

You'll have to let me know what works for you and your rifle!

[Harry O]

There was a wildcat based on the .22 Hornet that has intrigued me for many years. It was a .25 Hornet. It was necked up from .22 to .25 and had what looked like a straight case. I believe it was made for revolvers so that the case would not set back. I would think that .25 would be easier to cast than .22.

[Bonz]

A 9 mm carbine with a red dot. Cheap to reload for, small caliber although range is limited? Anything you have brass and boolits for? Mosin? [although ammo is getting costly]

+1 on the 9mm AR15 with RedDot ($50) Wife and I shot 200 rounds thru ours yesterday. Great fun, cheap to reload, not at all picky on bullet types. What more could you ask for...

[BeeMan]

A 223 with RCBS 55 gr sized .225, and about 7 gr Blue Dot prints nice tight groups at 50 yards for me.

[rbuck351]

My favorite for this is a M92 Win in 25/20. I also have a Savage 23 in 25/20, a Contender in 256Win 223 and 22KH, a NEF in 22KH and 30/30 and an old Rem 700V in 223 with 1/12 twist. All of these work as 22lr replacements with the smaller cases being a little more economical. The 22KH with a 45gr cast and 4.5grs of Win 231 works really well but velocity is more like 1400 than 1200. I haven't tried loading the rest of them really light but I suppose they would work ok.

[Jon]

Are there any decent .223 loads that don't need gas checks? I'm thinking light plinking loads.

[felix]

Probably not. Use a non-checked boolit design if you must. ... felix

[Uncle Grinch]

The one roadblock that I see, at least here in Georgia, is the fact that small game hunting requires a rimfire caliber only.

[dudel]

22 Hornet. I recently discovered this round. It's great in my Contender and HandiRifle, Works great for gallery loads, and it a good small critter getter without damaging too much meat (like a .223!)

[mdi]

I have an inexpensive Handi-Rifle in .223 (the scope costs more than the rifle). I began shooting full .223 loads but soon tired of it. Now I've been experimenting with some handloads that are a lot of fun to shoot. I have tried Beartooth's 45 gr. RN over about 4 1/2 gr of WC820, and around 9.0 gr. of 2400 and it's a hoot to shoot! Brass is everywhere, cheap, and easy to reload. My average "good" groups are hovering around 1" at 40 yards and recoil is nil. I believe there is load data in my Lyman's Cast bullet Handbook for lighter bullets/light loads. I don't try to count costs but a 45 gr. lead bullet (I don't have a mold that size yet) a small rifle primer, and a little bit of powder can't cost very much...

[dudel]

Some primers are allmost as loud as a regular 22 long rifle boolit. Is it difficult to make the Hornet as quiet as a subsonic 22 CB?

I've had very quiet loads in 22 hornet with a SPP and a .22 caliber pellet. This was using a 20" HandiRifle.

[Wadestep]

Thanks everyone for the relies - this site it excellent!
sofor, there have been 13 different calibers listed, and the most mentioned is 22 hornet, .223, 222, and a 38 or 9mm carbine. This is a lot of options and info. I'll be researching all this over the weekend. I think it might come down to rifle availablity/price, and brass availability/price. Here, the 222/223 (same brass) and the 9mm win out. However, I don't want a .35x projectile for this, actually don't want a .308 projectile either - just too big if trying to replace a .22LR. I sometimes take game that I want to eat.
I already have and reload for .223, .243, 30-06, .38, and 9mm. I'm going to look into the 22-250, 222, and 223 low velocity loads and rifles first. Thanks for all the ideas!
wade

[Wadestep]

Also PS - I live in Florida. migratory birds must be taken with shotgun, but squirrels can be "by all legal rifles, shotguns, muzzleloaders, crossbows, bows and pistols".
wade

[grumman581]

Are there any decent .223 loads that don't need gas checks? I'm thinking light plinking loads.

You can use a gas check bullet without the gas check. I've used the 22BATOR bullet without a gas check.

[s1120]

Its larger then you said... but for affordable reloading its really hard to beat 38spc/357. Shot out of a nice lever... yup, that would be what I was looking for.

[grumman581]

Its larger then you said... but for affordable reloading its really hard to beat 38spc/357. Shot out of a nice lever... yup, that would be what I was looking for.

Plus, being a straight walled case, they seem to last *forever*.

[Outpost75]

I have used the .32 S&W Long for this purpose for many years. Never had any trouble getting brass. Maybe it's a regional thing.83913
83914
83915

[detox]

The one roadblock that I see, at least here in Georgia, is the fact that small game hunting requires a rimfire caliber only.

Good one. I have enough CCI an Remington HP CB 's to last my lifetime. And a nice bull barreled Remington bolt action rifle to shoot them from.

[Janoosh]

Round ball in either 3006 or 38 is the way to start. Good loads will take you to 25/30 yds accurately. Research Larry Gibson cat sneeze loads for rifles, accurate and fun and no recoil.

[bhn22]

Really, it would be best to use a caliber you already have a gun chambered in. In my case that would be the 38/357, or perhaps even my 30-06, if I was looking at a rifle caliber. There is plenty of information for light loads in these calibers, and I already have molds for all of them.

[22 rifle]

i've had a 22 hornet and liked it a lot but i think that i would go for a 38 special.tons of brass around,no case lubing can use carbide dies,very accurate and wadcutter bullets slap down small game up to racoon size without tearing up a lot of meat.the flat end of the wadcutter works a lot like the blunt tip arrows my dad used to bow hunt small game with.i have 38 brass that i've been loading for the last 35 years.

[Mohillbilly]

I've been using .22 blanks and air gun pellets in my single sixes . I also shoot my .22 jet with reduced loads and cast .I think a neat Idea would be to invent a 38 special 22 , by a jet die shortened and chambered in your flavor gun , a 22 TC comes to mind ......

[GoodAlloy]

.357 lever loaded with 38 spl. just about perfect. light, good accuracy, quick 2nd shot, low recoil, small powder charge and delivers the goods far beyond .22RF ability. Can cycle even with squib loads without a hitch.

[Centaur 1]

I haven't tried them yet, but I cast several different 9mm/38spl bullets where I placed a strip of aluminum foil between the mold halves. The aluminum foil separates the front 3/4's of the boolit, with only the base holding the halves together. I got the idea from someone here at castboolits. The theory is when the boolit hits something, the two halves come apart creating two wound channels. Like I said, I haven't tried them yet so I'm not sure the bullet won't fly apart from rotational forces before getting to the target. My plan is to try using a thin strip of foil that runs across the middle of the boolit, leaving the two halves connected at the tip and the base. I think that it would still split in two as soon as it hits anything. I know you said that you wanted a boolit that weighed about 50 grains, I'm using a Ranch Dog tl-358-100-rf, so after it breaks in half it'll be like shooting two of your 50 grain bullets through the same hole. :2gunsfiring_v1: This project stalled out a couple of years back, I think I need to borrow my son's 9mm upper and take my AR squirrel hunting. :bigsmyl2:

[jonp]

223 Lot's of brass available for it

[MarkP]

22 Hornet was my fist thought; but what about a 25 ACP?

[shooter93]

222...they just seem to shoot cast very well. If I was interested in making the brass I'd be real tempted in the 32 Smith and Wesson necked down to 22.

[bhn22]

.221 Askins?

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/askins.htm

[dbosman]

I've been using .22 blanks and air gun pellets in my single sixes . I also shoot my .22 jet with reduced loads and cast .I think a neat Idea would be to invent a 38 special 22 , by a jet die shortened and chambered in your flavor gun , a 22 TC comes to mind ......

256 Win mag comes to mind. It would be interesting to see what newer powders would do for it.
A set of case conversion dies sold for $150 a day or two back on eBay.

The "new" 22 TCM might be a winner since it is starting as a pistol round.

[Eddie2002]

I'm having a ball shooting a Lee 100 grain .311 cast bullet over 5-6 grains of Bullseye in a 30-06. Sub MOA at 50 yds with no recoil to speak of. The report is about the same as a .22 rimfire and brass is cheap and will last just about for ever. I'm using the bullet as it drops out of the mould with no resizing or gas checks and I'm guessing the bullet is in the 1400-1500 fps range. Going to try 6-7 grains of Greendot next just because I have that powder. The only drawback is that I get some strange looks from the range officer at the local range when I start plinking with the 30-06 and it sounds like a .22 rimfire.
For a .22 caliber center fire I would go for a .223 just because there are so many of them out there with a great selection of actions and rifle twists but I don't own a .223 so I'm working with what I have.

[mikeym1a]

Just my goofy idea. If you have a nice beefy .22 rf, and were adventurous, you might get it converted to .22 hornet. I understand that that is how the first hornets were made. But, that's just me.... 8-)

[Baryngyl]

458 Win Mag with 500+ gr bullets that way even if you miss it scares them death plus your all set to go if any of the elephants hiding in cherry or nut trees decides to attack.
:kidding:




Actually I would try using something I already own like the 223 or even the 30-06 with 100gr bullets if it would shoot them good.



Michael Grace

[Reverend Al]

Lots of great suggestions ... but I still have a long standing love affair with the .32-20 WCF cartridge. I have a centrefire 310 Martini Cadet action that's been on the back burner for years, along with some absolutely gorgeous wood that I scored for it (also years ago) and I'm finally going to get it chambered in .32-20 with a medium / heavy barrel and a pair of scope blocks for one of my two target Unertls ...
[smilie=w:

[Reverend Al]

Mind you that fact that I already have two '92 Winchesters and a Colt '73 Bisley in .32-20 WCF help to make it an easy decision ... that and several moulds, RCBS dies, and a few thousand rounds of brass ...
:bigsmyl2:

[Mohillbilly]

I have often thought that I could reduce the volume of a 223 case by partially filling it with lead and drilling the flash hole thru . A water check to confirm that the few cases were the same CC s and a work up of powder , of what ever was available , and a bator or ?? what ever slug could work when supply runs low . home made black , and match head reworked primers/ cap gun caps would keep shooting for as many years as needed .

[FredBuddy]

All of these posts made me remember: Years ago I bought 2 chamber inserts. One was for the 30-30 and used a 32 ACP cartridge. The other was for 30-06 and used 30 Carbine cartridges. I'm going to go back to the 30-30, as Jaysouth mentioned, since I have a Topper that liked that insert combo. As well, I've started casting my own, thanks to all of you, and have an old Lyman mold for 32-20. The wheels are starting to turn.................

[s1120]

I've been using .22 blanks and air gun pellets in my single sixes . I also shoot my .22 jet with reduced loads and cast .I think a neat Idea would be to invent a 38 special 22 , by a jet die shortened and chambered in your flavor gun , a 22 TC comes to mind ......

Interesting idea. I have never thought of my jet as a affordable round....but I have not looked into cast yet. What do you shoot it through?

[tonyjones]

If brass for the .22 CCM were available it would be a dandy .22 LR replacement. It can be loaded down to less than 1,000 fps and full power loads fall between the .22 WRM and the .22 Hornet. I wish I had a single shot walk about rifle in this cartridge.

Regards,

Tony

[jimwill48]

30/30 as I have 3...Marlin 336, H&R 158 SS and a Savage 340 Bolt..reloads are very cheap and have lots of brass...
My second choice is..38/357 in my H&R 158 SS...from mouse loads to Deer loads...
And my underdog....35 Remington in my 336 and NEF SS..really the one of the most interesting, can use any .38 cal bullet loaded from super mild .38 spl levels to full bore .35 Remington levels....

[BAGTIC]

In the .22 LR you are getting the powder, the primer and the bullet in one package. It is unlikely that there is a cheaper alternative.

[Treetop]

It is unlikely that there is a cheaper alternative.

I haven't done the math, so you are probably correct about the price. The ongoing problem with .22 rimfire ammo is availability. This problem could very well last indefinitely with the current administration, so alternatives are fun to talk about. For some reason, I'm seeing some powders and primers becoming more available now. But not so much with .22 rimfire ammo.

I'm thinking a small lightweight Savage in .223 Rem. Barrel changes are easy and .22 barrels are available in any practical twist you need.

I'm possibly the only firearm owner in the U.S. that doesn't currently own anything in .223. I've disliked the round and the AR platform since the 60s, but a bolt gun in this now ubiquitous cartridge makes sense to me, for several reasons. My grand daughters are wanting to "shoot a deer" but they are real lightweights, so I could use this rifle with a 1:7 twist barrel with a 77 gr. j-word as their deer rifle and, as an alternative to the .22 rimfire with a 1:14 or 1:16 twist using cast boolits...

Yet another cast boolit project looms, I can't tell you how much money this forum has cost me, over the years! Tt.

[grampa243]

In the .22 LR you are getting the powder, the primer and the bullet in one package. It is unlikely that there is a cheaper alternative.

ok lets do the math.

primer = .04 (rounded up)
powder =.051 ( $24.00 / 7000 x 15grains)
boolit = .02 rounded up for casting cost (lead free range scrap + gas check)($15/1000=.015)
lube = less then .01

total = $0.121 each 500= $60.50
( I can't find 22LR for less then $89/500 before taxand shipping)

these are hot enough to work an AR15 at 22mag speeds and range.(with a bolt gun/single shot you could bring it down even more using less powder.)

[1Shirt]

Hornet or Bee!
1Shirt!

[Dale in Louisiana]

Don't run off and buy something new, shoot what you got!

You already have everything, right? Moulds, sizer, press, brass, etc. Just dial back on the powder and let things get leisurely. Instead of pushing things to the max, get used to the squib and gallery loads. Believe me, a 150-grain thirty caliber boolit at 800 FPS at thirty yards is going to do everything you want on small game and varmints and charging hordes of beer cans.

dale in Louisiana

[floydboy]

I was wanting to do something similar last winter. Following the suggestions from this site I built a 222 dedicated cast rifle from an old savage 223 I bought at a pawn shop. I couldn't be happier with the 222. Cheap brass made out of 223 brass. I shoot full power loads because I like to be able to hit something out to 200 yards. I figure my cost at 13 cents a round. lite loads could be about 8-9 cents if you didn't figure cost of brass and lead. I got both of them for free so I only count my powder and primer. I never shoot my 22LR any more. My new toy has a nice scope and the ability to seriously outshoot a 22LR so why bother. You've got a lot of good advice here. I considered many of these options. Probably no real right answer. I'd say your pocket book will determine how many options you have.
Good luck...

Floyd

[35remington]

Given that killing power is not too good when .22 rimfire speeds are duplicated with most .22 cast bullets, my vote goes to the 25-20. It's unlikely you'll have a rifle made in that caliber, I suppose, but there you have it. At .22 speeds or even subsonic at 1050 fps killing power is noticeably better than a long rifle or a cast bullet .22 at the same speed.

Bullets at 65 to 85 grains are small and light enough to still have economy in lead use, and top end is good enough that you've about 6X the killing power of the long rifle making it more suitable for tougher to kill critters like coyote. You also don't feel like you're performing microsurgery handling the bullets or gaschecks when reloading.

[FThera]

I just bought a bunch of Federal Match 22 at Walmart for 6.25 cents per round ($20.33 w tax per box of 325 rounds) I don't want to reload for that price.

[rbuck351]

I have 25/20 in the Savage 23 and the Win 92 and they are hands down far superior to a 22lr for about the same cost. A little under 4 cents for primer, some backstop lead, approx 1 cent for powder and a home made GC and I'm shooting very cheap. No, I don't count labor as I don't get paid when not at work so it makes no difference whether I'm loading ammo or watching TV and loading is fun anyway. Are there folks on this site that don't like to cast and load?

[dondiego]

I just bought a bunch of Federal Match 22 at Walmart for 6.25 cents per round ($20.33 w tax per box of 325 rounds) I don't want to reload for that price.

This is a handloading forum! I love to load ammo. I would load .22 LR if I could get the priming compound.

[Baryngyl]

The last time I bought any 22RF ammo was around 2006-2007.

I paid $8.90 per brick of 500 at the SunBirds store in Chehalis Washington when they would put them on sale every 3 or 4 months.
Since I was not shooting much at the time I would buy 1 sometimes 2 bricks if I could afford them so I eventually after 3 or 4 years got built up a bit so I am up to something like 8 bricks now and only shoot a bit of them the last few years.



Michael Grace

[paborn]

At the current cost of 22 long rifle ammo, I can handload ANY common centerfire rifle or pistol cartridge to approximate the ballistics of a 22 long rifle at the same or less cost. Generally it is at around 1400-1600 fps, using slow pistol powder. All my loads use Alliant 2400, but I've used Unique and Blue Dot as well. The idea is not to have to buy a new rifle, but use one currently in service. I shoot a 30-06 that I have a hunting load using a Lyman 311284 (210 grain) sighted 2 inches high at 100 yards that will shoot a 155 grain Lee Harris to a 50 yard zero at the same sight setting. I had to up the 2400 charge to 20 grains for 1830 fps with the 155 Lee in the 30-06, but that was just to get it to shoot where I wanted at my hunting sight setting. This load, and my hunting load, cost $0.126 per round. They are only that expensive because they both use a gas check. The cast round for me is free as I've an excellent source for free wheelweights, and as I'm retired, more time than money.

I'm currently working on a 35 Whelen that I have sighted in with a hunting load using a 358009 (280 grain) at 1800 fps for hunting. I'm using a 358156 (160 grain) pistol bullet that I currently can't get close to 50 yard zero at hunting sight settings, but 20 grains of Alliant 2400, or 15.5 grains of Unigue will both shoot slightly under an inch at 50 yards. Don't know the velocity as a haven't run them over the crono yet. I'm generally trying for 1400-1600 to get a one inch point blank range of about 85 yards.

If I was someone looking for a 22 replacement I would:
1. Take a centerfire rifle I already have.
2. Find a mold or bullet of light weight for the caliber, plain base if you want to do it on the cheap and willing to do the work to work up a load to at least 1400 fps (to get 22 equivalent trajectory).
3. Use a slow pistol powder to work up the load. Lyman cast manuals are an excellent resource.
4. Have fun

I have no doubt that 22 ammo will eventually come down to a reasonable level, but the scalpers around here charge more than $0.15 per round. Don't know about WalMart prices. Talked to the Manager and he says when they do get anything in, it's gone the next morning.

In about 45 minutes I'll be at my brother's place with a TC Hawken caplock in 45. Not exactly a squirrel gun, but shoots to zero at 50 yards with a patched ball. Oh yah, it's doe only blackpowder season, and small game is in.

Paborn

[grampa243]

If I was someone looking for a 22 replacement I would:
1. Take a centerfire rifle I already have.
2. Find a mold or bullet of light weight for the caliber, plain base if you want to do it on the cheap and willing to do the work to work up a load to at least 1400 fps (to get 22 equivalent trajectory).
3. Use a slow pistol powder to work up the load. Lyman cast manuals are an excellent resource.
4. Have fun

Paborn
+1 I like the way you think.

[Bullshop Junior]

I personally like the 222. Easy to make brass for. Shoots cast good. Gets good velocity with j*ckated. Seems pretty good to me. Ive actually been looking for one for awhile b

[Garyshome]

Just get a decent pellet rifle for the small stuff. Use what ya got for the bigger stuff!

[rbuck351]

Most 22cal pellets are 3cents each and some are 5/6cents each especially the accurate ones. Yesterday I bought 1000 Rem match sm rifle primers for $28 and a pound of powder for $23. 1000 primers and half a pound of powder and lead that was free range pick up and I have 1000 25/20 for about $40. I have to buy pretty cheap pellets to beat that and they have neither the range, power or accuracy of the 25/20. Same goes for 22lr.

[Pakprotector]

The 25 Air rifles are quite enough for squirrels. Anything bigger, and range gets restricted a bit. Now a .224 Marauder is under construction, and I anticipate being able to comfortably deal with squirrels to 80+ yards. Not cheap, but trigger time in the back yard is easy 'cause it is both muffled and sub-sonic.

Daily practice is not to be despised, and will make what ever you settle on ever-so-use-able.

A Hornet and a 14" twist barrel and you've got up to 55 gr boolits being stable, and heavier if you get a 12"-er. The 225462 is nearly 60 gr, and at 1000 fps will flat wreck a squirrel( and bunny, ground hog etc. ). A dedicated 25 Auto rifle, properly chambered should be able to spit the heavier .25-20 boolits downrange to the tune of 200 FPE with BC numbers that make the 50 gr auto boolits look like Diabolo pellets( the cartridge will look like the 60 gr quiet short ammo ). A sub-sonic .38 Special is not w/o charm, and .356 molds are nearly an order of magnitude more plentiful. At trans-sonic velocities, they are 500 FPE though there won't be much squirrel left at that point.

Just because it looks 'Best' to us, does not mean it is best for you, or even really best...LOL Budget driven choices dictate light loads in what you have, not going out and buying another for it...though another rifle is never a bad thing.

[rbuck351]

Yeah, I'm not sure buying another rifle is cost effective to replace the 22lr. Recently I bought a Beeman RS2 springer pellet with the interchangable 177/22 barrels. After buying every different pellet available in Anchorage, I found the accuracy to be less than I had hoped for. Anything less than 1" at 20yds isn't going to happen. 1" at 20yds is with RWS match pellets. At 75yds about the effective range of a 22lr for me, pellet guns aren't going to get it short of buying a very expensive pellet rifle that shoots rather expensive pellets. So I'm stuck with the guns I have. My choices being 22KH, 25/20, 32/20, 256Win, 223 in the small caliber range. Of that bunch, I like the 25/20 the best.

[Bored1]

Is 25/20 that easy to come by in alaska? I don't know that I've ever seen any brass for that availible locally, and know for a fact I've never found any at the range. If the brass is limited for that caliber wouldn't choosing that just land you right where you are now with the 22lr after you use your brass supply.

[rbuck351]

25/20 brass is still available from Rem Win and Starline and fairly inexpensive. Factory ammo is still available as well but it is expensive. And because it's not popular it wasn't ripped off the shelves when all the normal stuff went. Also 32/20 and 218 Bee will make 25/20 with a single pass through a sizer die. With 3 or 4 grs of powder it is pretty easy on brass as well. Annealing every few shots should make it last a long time. I passed up some 32/20 at a gun show today because the guy wanted more for it than new brass. I also have the parts to put together a 92 Win in 256Win. Brass for it is made from 357Mag and there is a bunch of that laying about.

[Pakprotector]

Recently I bought a Beeman RS2 springer pellet with the interchangable 177/22 barrels. After buying every different pellet available in Anchorage, I found the accuracy to be less than I had hoped for. Anything less than 1" at 20yds isn't going to happen. 1" at 20yds is with RWS match pellets. At 75yds about the effective range of a 22lr for me, pellet guns aren't going to get it short of buying a very expensive pellet rifle that shoots rather expensive pellets..
Spring air rifles are not like PCp or powder guns, the reaction when the piston starts moving( and stops ), needs a special hold developed. Hold sensitivity was a term invented for the springer I think, or should have been at any rate. My PCP stable will shoot circles around the best of 'em without even trying.

The first pre-charge Air rifle is not cheap; you need charging equipment. I don't buy any pellets locally; 2k of them for about $50 delivered. That is a month worth in summer, maybe less. The 22 Marauder shoots 18.1 gr JSB well. Even before I put a longer barrel on it, 3/4" at 50 yards was reliable, and with care on wind doping slightly better was possible.

Under the use you describe, the .25-20 looks mighty fine. The 257420 mold by Lyman should get you FINE boolits. The AG's shoot them well...:)
cheers,
Douglas

[Chev. William]

25-20? Isn't that usually a round not fired in semi-auto firearms? that would explain why you do not see discarded brass at a range, easy extraction/ejection makes saving your brass a Lot Easier.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Dale in Louisiana]

Price comparisons between .22 LR and other calibers might not be the best way to go.

When son and I go to the range and shoot .22, I have 30-round magazines and a fast loader. Walking cans downrange or keeping one of those spinning targets going with the little semi-auto is fun, but it runs the round count up fast.

When we shoot centerfire, there are no rapid-fire strings. Did you very try and 'rapid-fire' a Mosin Nagant? Whole different experience, isn't it? Or even worse, a trapdoor or a rolling block.

The way I figure it, ten good rounds of centerfire is equivalent to fifty of .22 LR.

Of course, if your thing with the .22 LR is working over a 200-yard NRA target, then your round count goes back down.

dale in Louisiana

[bhn22]

Unless of course you're hunting small game. Then the Nagant might be a little more than you need.

[grumman581]

Unless of course you're hunting small game. Then the Nagant might be a little more than you need.

That would depend upon what you are loading it to and how small the game is that you are hunting. Get it down to 500 fps and it's probably not going to damage the meat more than a .22LR might do. If the game is really small and you wanted to save the meat, you would be going for a head shot anyway, right? As such, you're really not going to care whether it just has a hole in the head or if the head is blown half off.

[Dale in Louisiana]

That would depend upon what you are loading it to and how small the game is that you are hunting. Get it down to 500 fps and it's probably not going to damage the meat more than a .22LR might do. If the game is really small and you wanted to save the meat, you would be going for a head shot anyway, right? As such, you're really not going to care whether it just has a hole in the head or if the head is blown half off.

Exactly! There are a bunch of little thirty-caliber moulds out there. A primer, a few grains of a fast powder, you get something subsonic that's easily accurate enough to anchor a bunny or a squirrel, and at low velocity and energy, you won't tear up the meat.

Little short fat boolits should stabilize at low velocity.

dale in Louisiana

[Bret4207]

I'm way late getting into this conversation, but the replacement around here for the 22LR is the 32 S+W and 32 S+W Long. Boolits tend to be in the 85-90 gr range, powder charges around 1-1.5 grs and the brass lasts absolutely forever as long as you don't crush it. If you're target shooting you can usually dig the boolits out of the sand bank and re-cast them. No GC needed, no fancy lube either. And the rifles tend to weigh in under 5 lbs! Perfect for the kids and old guys who aren't superman anymore. Rabbits, squirrels and such tend to become very still very fast when hit with a nice FN at 700 fps. I've even been know to use it on coyote on the trap line and it's adequate for fox, feral cats, porkies and other 22 sized game. Range is the only limitation, along with finding a suitable rifle to convert from 32 RF to CF.

[NoZombies]

I'm way late getting into this conversation, but the replacement around here for the 22LR is the 32 S+W and 32 S+W Long. Boolits tend to be in the 85-90 gr range, powder charges around 1-1.5 grs and the brass lasts absolutely forever as long as you don't crush it. If you're target shooting you can usually dig the boolits out of the sand bank and re-cast them. No GC needed, no fancy lube either. And the rifles tend to weigh in under 5 lbs! Perfect for the kids and old guys who aren't superman anymore. Rabbits, squirrels and such tend to become very still very fast when hit with a nice FN at 700 fps. I've even been know to use it on coyote on the trap line and it's adequate for fox, feral cats, porkies and other 22 sized game. Range is the only limitation, along with finding a suitable rifle to convert from 32 RF to CF.

Bret,

Glad to see you posting again. I've been using the .32 S&W long (and similar) for small game for several years myself, and having a lot of fun with it. I've got another .222 again, and expect to have fun with that as well, but I can't imagine the .32's being put out to pasture anytime in the foreseeable future.

[clodhopper]

I have to go with the whelen, allredy have rifle, dies, "m"die too, mould, sizer, and load worked up.
So what if the boolit weighs more than 50 grains?
Excellent squirrel killer, would not be feeling naked when carrying the whelen if some of the toothyer fanua happend to give some trouble.

[WallyM3]

This has been my 22LR replacement of late. Uses little Pb and is an easy cast. Cases are about as inexpensive as they come, are plentiful and last eternally. Easy to load, too.

85918

Lyman 358101 (75 gr.) over 2.0 gr Bullseye. Any .38 Special case...this just happens to be a WC case by the luck of the draw.

[Chev. William]

.38 Thumper. that bullet looks like a small version of a model airplane engine piston, just no wrist pin hole.

Tung in cheek,
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[rbuck351]

Yep, most anything you have will work with light cast loads. Some are just more effective users of powder and lead and the little guys just don't burn up stuff as fast as the bigger ones.

[Chev. William]

Update to the Listing:
Old CF replacement = .221 Askins (original from 1937)
New CF Replacement = .22 Ladybug or .22 Ladybug-Repeater (current 2018)

All can now be formed from .25ACP parent cases via Swaging down body and base diameters and turning rims.
Best Regards,
Chev. william

[Tom_in_AZ]

22 Hornet with a 37-45 gr cast boolit loaded with oh idk 2 gr of bullseye should be in the 22 LR range. Others should chime in shortly.

Yup


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[boman250]

Update to the Listing:
Old CF replacement = .221 Askins (original from 1937)
New CF Replacement = .22 Ladybug or .22 Ladybug-Repeater (current 2018)

All can now be formed from .25ACP parent cases via Swaging down body and base diameters and turning rims.
Best Regards,
Chev. william

Ok, I thought my 22 TCM with cast boolits over a light charge of unique was pretty darn close to a 22lr. But that even looks like a 22 LR. I am impressed.

[deetee]

...I think a neat Idea would be to invent a 38 special 22 , by a jet die shortened and chambered in your flavor gun , a 22 TC comes to mind...

.256 Winchester Magnum - necked down .357

...or if you wanna "wildcat" it, neck it down even further to .22 cal...

just sayin'

[Chev. William]

.256 Winchester Magnum - necked down .357

...or if you wanna "wildcat" it, neck it down even further to .22 cal...

just sayin'

Chuckling at the idea of rechambering a .22LR Semi-Auto Rifle into such a 'Wildcat' cartridge at SAAMI .22LR pressures.

[fast ronnie]

Been kind of thinking about a .38 necked down to .22. .38's are real easy to come by, .357's not so much here.

[deetee]

Been kind of thinking about a .38 necked down to .22.

Should be "kinda" proportional, down 0.03" on the calibre, and 3mm on the length...

Definitely be a load of fun as a "big boy" plinker :lol:

[JoeJames]

I'm way late getting into this conversation, but the replacement around here for the 22LR is the 32 S+W and 32 S+W Long. Boolits tend to be in the 85-90 gr range, powder charges around 1-1.5 grs and the brass lasts absolutely forever as long as you don't crush it. If you're target shooting you can usually dig the boolits out of the sand bank and re-cast them. No GC needed, no fancy lube either. And the rifles tend to weigh in under 5 lbs! Perfect for the kids and old guys who aren't superman anymore. Rabbits, squirrels and such tend to become very still very fast when hit with a nice FN at 700 fps. I've even been know to use it on coyote on the trap line and it's adequate for fox, feral cats, porkies and other 22 sized game. Range is the only limitation, along with finding a suitable rifle to convert from 32 RF to CF.Julian Hatcher and Elmer Keith agreed that the 32 S&W Long was great for small game as long as you did not use factory loads. I wish that someone would come up with a single shot rifle - falling block, rolling block, etc. We ain't talking high pressures here.

[Chev. William]

Here are photos of my case forming dies.
The following views are of my dies for reducing .25ACP and similar body diameters down to .22 Ladybug body diameters:
Click image for larger version. 222542
Top and side view of dies (tops tapped 1/2-20UNF)

Click image for larger version.222543
Bottom view of the homemade dies with the Left ones fitted with Drill Bushings and the rightmost one a machined blank body.

Also shown are a machined Blank die body ready for a Drill Bushing insertion and the 8" long 3/16" diameter Pin Punch I use to remove swaged cases form the dies. The punch working end had been modified with a slight taper and radius on the edge.

The following views are of my dies for forming 5.7x28mm and .22 Hornet down to .25ACP body diameters:
Click image for larger version.222544
Click image for larger version.222545
These dies are, from the Left, Lee opened Carbide Ring .25ACP Sizing Dies of .300", .288", .284", and .2785"; with the rightmost die a Hollywood Engineering Steel .25ACP sizing die.
Chev. William

[dougader]

223 in a TC Contender. 32 HRM in a Single Six revolver. Cheap, accurate shooting all around.

[303Guy]

I happen to have one or two 303 Lee Enfields. One of them at least shoots lightweight (147gr) plinker loads which are subsonic, very quiet with a suppressor and accurate to boot, like, centre of beer can at 40 - 50 yds from the shoulder. Trouble is, these are paper patched (the patch stays on to the target) and are that much more effort to make. That 147gr boolit is mighty short by the way - I wouldn't want to patch much shorter. Chances are, I could find a plain boolit to shoot just as well.

I also happen to have hornet that seems to be Ok with RCBS 55 grainers. Not super accurate but then the castings were lousy. If someone could teach me how to cast good boolits from the double cavity mould I would be eternally grateful. [smilie=b:

My loading technique is to set a card wad to seating depth then place a ball of waxy-lube on the card followed by a heated boolit which melts the lube and stays put once the lube freezes. No case prepping required - no sizing whatever, no nothing. I'm not sure how slow the boolit can be fired and still stay stable but at reasonable loads the holes were perfectly round. Just not all on top of each other. They weren't slow so maybe I was over doing it. That same gun shoot 63gr bullets very accurately with its 1 in 16 twist. Don't underestimate what bullet/boolit weight a 1 in 16 twist can stabilise.

So I am covered should the supply of 22 LR ammo from the US ever dry up. [smilie=1:

Thing is though, the 22 LR rifle is a whole lot of fun to shoot. I have a small collection of them, including a number of single shots. I also have one or two barreled actions missing their bolts. One takes a 22 pellet just about right. I want to build a compressor powered gun on that one for backyard practice. One day. I found that if the pellet is pushed into the bore then normal compressed air pressure will fire it but not very fast.

[trapper9260]

Julian Hatcher and Elmer Keith agreed that the 32 S&W Long was great for small game as long as you did not use factory loads. I wish that someone would come up with a single shot rifle - falling block, rolling block, etc. We ain't talking high pressures here.

I had my gunsmith make me a 327mag out of a H&R Hnadi rifle. I can shoot all the 32's in it .Beside I have a BH in it also from the start and a P32 .This is the same reason i had it done for all that been post to want to do for have shoot like a 22lr.

[JoeJames]

I had my gunsmith make me a 327mag out of a H&R Hnadi rifle. I can shoot all the 32's in it .Beside I have a BH in it also from the start and a P32 .This is the same reason i had it done for all that been post to want to do for have shoot like a 22lr.That is a grand idea. I checked on the new Handi rifles; they do not appear to have in in 32 H&R or 327, but I noticed they he 'em in 44 mag, which would be tolerable since I do load 44 special also. Your reply got me thinking about perhaps a thompson center encore and I am now wondering if they have one in 327 or 32 H&R. I did a little checking and they are a touch high - custom barrels.

[Marlin356]

5 cents/round for 22 LR is "expensive" ?

[boman250]

5 cents/round for 22 LR is "expensive" ?

Yes, when it was around 2 cents a round 15 years ago.

[trapper9260]

That is a grand idea. I checked on the new Handi rifles; they do not appear to have in in 32 H&R or 327, but I noticed they he 'em in 44 mag, which would be tolerable since I do load 44 special also. Your reply got me thinking about perhaps a thompson center encore and I am now wondering if they have one in 327 or 32 H&R. I did a little checking and they are a touch high - custom barrels.

My gunsmith had the barrel made for the gun.It was a 35rem but I mess up on not keep the barrel. But it is a 327 Fed Mag and have a scope on it.There was a different gun he was trying to make as a repeater but things did not fall in place. So it went to the H&R Handi rife.For all I will use it for will work out.

[trapper9260]

Yes, when it was around 2 cents a round 15 years ago.

You got that right. On one site I get notice from to buy in bulk it is 4 cents a round when you get 5000 it is free shipping.It is blaze 22lr. but I am still not sure if I want to do it or not. I have not seen anywhere that is less then that yet.I do not think so for how things are now.

[26Charlie]

Trapper, 200.00 a case and free shipping is a great deal. Years ago when I was shooting indoor match .22, I shifted to Blazers because I never got a misfire with it. With Remington standard velocity or Winchester white box I would get 1 or 2 in a box of 50. If that was in timed or rapid fire, I had to shoot the stage over again - a PITA. Go for it, you’ll have a lifetime supply.

[trapper9260]

Trapper, 200.00 a case and free shipping is a great deal. Years ago when I was shooting indoor match .22, I shifted to Blazers because I never got a misfire with it. With Remington standard velocity or Winchester white box I would get 1 or 2 in a box of 50. If that was in timed or rapid fire, I had to shoot the stage over again - a PITA. Go for it, you’ll have a lifetime supply.

Thank you I think I will then . and yes it will be a lifetime supply for me . thank you

[Chev. William]

Some News: Today "Ammoguide Interactive" added two Cartridges their Cartridge Master Database, the 5,5 Velodog and the Wild cat originally made from it, the .221 Askins.

The case diagrams are based upon measurements made and reported by Major J. S. Hatcher and anecdotal comments ascribed to col Charles Askins.

Now we have 1930s era cartridges to chose from for '.22LR replacements'.

Chev. William

[WRideout]

I loaded some .223 Bator boolits in my Remington bolt gun with 2.0 gr of Red Dot, but could never get any accuracy out of it.

Wayne

[pls1911]

WAY late to this thread.
I agree various .32s would be a great choice.
However, I've found cast bullets in any old 30/30 with a little unique does as well out to 40 yards.

[Shingle]

I replaced the 22lr. with 9mm carbine I even made a single shot out of a 20ga. shotgun. Haven't used a 22 in several years it is even a good squirrel rifle.

[Chev. William]

This December, I received Back from John Taylor my Ruger Standard Auto Receiver And Bolt converted To Center fire and fitted with an custom 8-1/8" long .25ACP barrel chambered with my Custom .2795" diameter Finish Chamber reamer, mad eby JGS Precision.

December 27th I fired it at my local Commercial outdoor ranges at 50 yards. It is more Accurate 'Standing Off Hand' than I am as my friend held it more Accurately than I did!

A Very Good Christmas Season for me!

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

to update this thread:
My current thinking for a "Rifle" is a Conversion of A Current manufacture Lever Action .22 Magnum Rifle with a 20 inch .25ACP barrel and "match grade" chamber of about .2795" to .2780" diameter Parallel walled straight cylinder shape to fully support the Case body from Mouth to Rim.

A Lothar Walther .25ACP Barrel Blank, either Cr-Mo Alloy or Stainless Steel, of their "Pistol Barrel Blank" series at 23+ inches long would be a Very Good starting point.

I understand 'Henry' is making a Lever Action .22 Rifle nowadays that might be a good Donor rifle for the Conversion.

Chev. William

[John Van Gelder]

The .22 Hornet is a good choice, many years ago I came across a list of all of the calibres that the 1873 Colt had been chambered in, one was the .22 Hornet. Always nice to have a rifle and handgun in the same calibre. Almost any centrefire calibre can be down loaded with cast bullets to make small game loads. The .30-06 with a piece of .30 cal., buckshot works well. I have round ball loads for the .45ACP, that are accurate, and not very destructive on small game. When I lived back East most of my small game hunting was with a .357 with a 77 gr. wad cutter in .38spl cases. With scrounged lead and 4 gr. of Bulls Eye, it was cheaper than .22LR even back then.

[NoZombies]

http://nozombies.com/ladybug/comp.JPG

[John Van Gelder]

NoZombies

Cool.. What is that cartridge..?

[NoZombies]

NoZombies

Cool.. What is that cartridge..?

It's a little wildcat called the .22 ladybug. You can read more here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356567-Introducing-The-22-ladybug