marlin 1894 long story

[guncheese]

39 years ago my Dad bought a 1894 in 44mag
he had a buddy of his load up some target loads for it 1 box of 50 in new Norma brass
he shot 10 rounds through it and never shot it again
said it kicked like a mule, it even bruised him

a couple months ago he asked me if i had seen any ammo for it.
i said what ammo, the shelves are empty!
but i said i would collect a set of dies and a mold and such so he can plink a bit with it
fast forward to today
i was over to his house and told him i needed to slug his barrel
so he helped me do that
then he had some old .38spl ammo in the closet he gave me
then he brought out that box of the remaining 40 rounds of .44mag
83723
wonder if that 22 gr of 2400 under a 240gr boolit had something to do with it
a target load?
are these even safe to shoot? i cant find any data in my stuff with that much 2400 in it even with a lighter bullet
i took those things with me as i didnt want him to be tempted to try it
i said i would find out if they were safe and if not ill tear them down and load something a bit less exciting
so what should i do?

[LUCKYDAWG13]

my lyman book shows 20.5 gr of 2400 as a max load for a 240gr

[btroj]

22 gr of 2400 was a classic load of old.

I would personally shoot them then related at a slightly lower level. That is just me. I have loaded, and shot, many with the 22 gr of 2400 load and a Lyman 429421 in a SBH.

[725]

Tear them apart and work with a known (safe) load.

[felix]

Not target loads in that box! I would bet the ammo is just fine, and perhaps a tad weaker than before because of powder age. Maybe not, so expect recoil, keeping in mind there is no recoil when a deer is in the sights and your emotions are adjusted forward and not rearward. No chance for a double charge because the kernels of powder are small enough not to cause a bridge while loading with a typical dump type measure. ... felix

[fouronesix]

Current Alliant Pistol/Revolver data shows 20.6 as Max charge under 240 gr GC bullet for 1510 fps and 34,700 psi. Current Lyman data shows a Max charge of 22.2 gr under a 255 GC bullet for 1165 fps and 35,300 CUP in a 4" handgun and a Max charge of 20.0 gr under 255 GC bullet for 1604 fps in a 14" T/C Bbl.

No idea what 22 gr of older 2400 loaded in 1974 would be, but it would not be nor would ever have been a target load! I'd just pull them down and start over.

[Iowa Fox]

All you have to go on is the hand written label. Lord only knows whats actually in the case. I say pull um. You can always reassemble with a lower charge if your pretty sure its 2400. Shoot those yourself and load your Dad some nice shooting soft recoiling rounds. In the Marlin your going to need a FAT bullet 432 or 433 if they will chamber. In my Lyman molds only the 429244 will get me the large diameter I need dropping at 4345. The LBT 434250GC LFN feeds and shoots the best out of my Marlin.

[Mk42gunner]

I agree with most of what has been said already. 22 grains of 2400 was a pretty standard load in days of yore, albeit not a target load.

Also, you don't really know what is in those loads. I question the reliability of whoever loaded those for your dad. I mean since he requested target loads and got full house magnum loads???

Safest way is to pull the boolits and recharge with a known safe load, at whatever level you and your dad want.

Robert

[chevyiron420]

That is Elmer Kieth's load, if I remember, but he said standard primers only. I shot that combo for many years in my Redhawk. One day I loaded some in my Browning 92 and it kicked like a mule and bruised me up good with hard extraction. I always figured it was because of no cylinder gap in the rifle. I never shot that load in it again!

[44man]

My standard load was the 429421 with 22 gr of 2400 for both the Ruger FT and all the S&W 29's I had back then, starting in 1956.
Factory loads then kicked a LOT more. Had to shoot up factory stuff to get the brass.

[country gent]

I also believe 2400 used to be a little slower powder than we have now. Originally it was the powder for 22 hornet and several other rifle rounds. 2400 has been the go to powder for 44 magnum loads for many years now. I can remeber reading some of Elmers Kieths articles years ago and they always seemed optomistic with the charges given. Alot of experience there though. He was the one who got us the 44 mag through his work with hot loaded 44 spls.
I would disasemble several rounds at random and check the actual loading to the info given, if all matches up then shoot a couple and chheck them out for sighns of excess pressure. Several things may have changed over the years, Powder may burn slightly diffrent, primer ignition may have changed, bullets may have aged and slightly changed hardness, Brass may have age hardened, Many things could have changed over the time span your talking about.

[oldarkie]

I never shoot anyones hand loads but my own.i make enough mistakes without having to worry about someone else.just my $.02

[hicard]

That load is way too hot. Pull and reload with a safe load.

[guncheese]

ive decided to pull them
so we know these are 39 years old
and i do trust the guy who loaded them to be just what he says they are (he is gone now, but i knew him as well)
but how old was the powder when they were loaded? 20 years old then? that makes for 60 year old powder (which makes for unpredictable results)
im sure the primers will be fine
i think ill pull the bullets and dump the powder
and tumble the cases primed (unless you fellas think thats a bad idea)
and load up some 200gr RNFP that i have cast with 12gr of blue dot, that should be a safe soft shooting load that would still be very varmit worthy
that should give 11 or 1200 fps with a good thump

thanks for the help
ill give a report when we get to shooting them

[HNSB]

If you tumble primed, be sure to check the flash holes on every cartridge to be sure you don't have tumbling media stuck in them.

[Smoke4320]

personally if you are going to pull down I would go all the way down. Brass and bullets can be reused. tumble bare cases and start over .. YMMV

[Larry Gibson]

Quite frankly 22 gr of old Hercules 2400 or new Alliant 2400 is safe under a 240 gr cast SWC, even with the "mag" primer. The load is below the SAAMI MAP for the 44 magnum in several pressure tests of that load that I have conducted. I would have no problems shooting them in a Marlin. The OP knew the loader well and 10 of the loaded cartridges have been fired with no problem (other than the recoil). There are no pressure problems indicated on any of the 10 fired primers. They look like primers fired with normal 44 magnum loads.

However, if those are PB'd cast bullets I would not expect great accuracy from them. They are pushed too fast for best accuracy.

Larry Gibson

[Guesser]

Standard load for the time period. The only discrepancy I note is the phrase "target loads". They will poke holes in a target, sure, but they are a high end, not max., load for 1974. Shoot'em

[oldfart1956]

That is Elmer Kieth's load, if I remember, but he said standard primers only. I shot that combo for many years in my Redhawk. One day I loaded some in my Browning 92 and it kicked like a mule and bruised me up good with hard extraction. I always figured it was because of no cylinder gap in the rifle. I never shot that load in it again! Chevy reading that made me smile. The very first post I made on Cast Boolits was concerning this load and in a Browning 92 as well. And yes...it was brutal. :) Accuracy was exceptional though. I ended up trying every mold I have to make a boolit for that gun. I gave up. With that oversize bore (.433/.434) it just ain't happening. Audie...the Oldfart..

[Three44s]

Since you are going to pull the bullets and powder I won't argue that point.

But I would not tumble the cases, rather I'd load a suitable load on top of those magnum primers with whatever bullet you chose.

Then clean the cases as you wish.

Also, I'd keep those Norma cases for serious work after that. You can't buy a better case for love nor money.

Get some garden variety brass for plinkin' and plunkin'!

And lastly, I adhere to the axiom that you run 2400 for business type loads with standard primers to keep peak pressures down. Magnum primers have their place but not in high end 2400 loads ..... it lights too easily to need added spiking from maggies. H110 and HS-6 are the powders that get the magnum primers in my guns.

Best regards

Three 44s

[MT Gianni]

I would shoot those not pull them. I would also invest in a lace up recoil pad for a 44 rifle. My Rossi bruised me every which way until I did so.

[uaskme]

Your Dad shot a half dozen of those so you know they go bang and not boom. Look at the cases for signs of high pressure. If no signs, I would shoot them. A lot easier than pulling them.

[357Ruger]

I'd shoot them in a 44 revolver if you have access to one. Preferably a Ruger Super Blackhawk or Redhawk. Then reload some true target loads for your Dad to enjoy. I've heard the old Marlins could be finicky with lead loads but have no experience with them.

[guncheese]

i decided to pull them and see what the powder smells like
if its usable ill reload them with that powder at a more shootable level
i am a bit concerned that those bullets may be to small to start with
but will see
looks like i may have to beagle my mold as it is to get to .432-.433
the bore slugged .4317 or so. right to spec if im not mistaken
i just dont want him to shoot those hot rounds as he isnt really to springy of a chicken anymore and i dont want him turned off shooting it again
and to tell the truth i dont want to shoot them either :?


i pulled 1
the powder smells fine,looks fine
im should be able to revcover 19gr from each round if i pull them
found out the boolits are checked
and they measure .4295 on the bands and .430 on the check
so im guessing they will be a bit small

im torn :veryconfu