Annealing brass with an induction heater tool

[Love Life]

So there I was, larger than life. I was twirling brass in my drill waiting for the tempilaq to turn and wishing I would spring for one of those fancy automated annealers.

So I gots to googling and came across this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_ohUknmaq4

It appears he is using this tool:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ATSL7VE/ref=dra_a_cs_mr_hn_it_P1300_1000?tag=dradisplay-20

I see the big limiter being the coil getting too hot from repeated cycling, but if you only did a hundred or so at a time it should be good...maybe.

Now I've been contemplating giving this a try, but feel the eyeball, stopwatch, hope I used the right amount of time method may not be conducive to success. Anybody know how to hook a time switch thingy into one of these?

I see this as a great alternative to the traditional torch method. What do ya'll think of the idea and the switch?

[perotter]

I think it's a great idea. I set up an induction machine at work for soldering terminals a few years ago. The process time was four times faster than using a torch. The unit we have is water cooled and has a timer operated with a foot control. I'd love to be able to take it home for a weekend for annealing brass.

There are simpler timers made that you don't have to make the circuit for. I can point you in the right direction or at least a direction for one of these. You should be able to find a used one, as they are common in industrial equipment.

[Love Life]

Perotter-I would very much appreciate you pointing me in the right direction. I never did get along well with wiring and electricity...

No open flame is a plus and then no replacing propane. From what I see it should be a very controlled heat, and specific spot application.

Jmorris needs to see one of these. He creates the coolest stuff.

[geargnasher]

I toured a gear and sprocket factory once, one of the things that stuck in my head was the guy induction-hardening sprocket teeth. He put a finished sprocket on a fixture that held it just inside the induction ring, it would start to sing like a crystal wine glass, and the teeth would light up to full-cherry-red in about a second. At just the right point the fixture dropped sprocket into a quench tank. The induction ring never really got hot except for a little residual warmth from the sprocket teeth. Methinks you're on to something here.

Gear

[ElDorado]

Now if you could mount that in a press, or better yet, a progressive press with an automatic case feeder, that would be light-years better than the rotary propane models. I gotta think about this.

[Just Duke]

So there I was, larger than life. I was twirling brass in my drill waiting for the tempilaq to turn and wishing I would spring for one of those fancy automated annealers.

So I gots to googling and came across this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_ohUknmaq4

It appears he is using this tool:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ATSL7VE/ref=dra_a_cs_mr_hn_it_P1300_1000?tag=dradisplay-20

I see the big limiter being the coil getting too hot from repeated cycling, but if you only did a hundred or so at a time it should be good...maybe.

Now I've been contemplating giving this a try, but feel the eyeball, stopwatch, hope I used the right amount of time method may not be conducive to success. Anybody know how to hook a time switch thingy into one of these?

I see this as a great alternative to the traditional torch method. What do ya'll think of the idea and the switch?

This one would work in a press. http://www.amazon.com/Induction-Innovations-Long-Ductor-Pre-Formed/dp/B007QV68EI/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_7

[ElDorado]

If you had one of those PID set-ups that everyone is hooking up to their lead pots, you could have the thing shut off at a set temperature and forget the timer.

[Love Life]

This one would work in a press. http://www.amazon.com/Induction-Innovations-Long-Ductor-Pre-Formed/dp/B007QV68EI/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_7

That is just the coil kit, Duke. Still need the main part.

I like the pid idea, and it would only require a second or two at 750 to anneal the neck correctly.

Here's an offer. If I were willing to buy the induction heater, would one of you electrical savvy gentlemen or women want to figure out a timer? You can anneal all your brass, conduct R&D on just the timer part, and then know exactly what you need to build your own. I would of course pay for all the timer parts and labor so I end up with a complete unit on the back end of it.

Any takers?

[Love Life]

Another train of thought here is to hook the pid to it so it can't go beyond a certain temp. Say 775 degrees. Then you can cut it on, stick your brass in there for a couple seconds, and then done!! Or a pid with timer that allows you to set the time so it shuts off in between pieces of brass. Stick another piece of brass in, hit the button, toss brass in bucket....

Who wants to guinea pig this one with me?

Think about how this can help out with annealing pistol cases as well.

[thehouseproduct]

I think mounting this on a cheap lee press is just the ticket. The press with a switch would ensure the same location on each case is annealed, the switch would ensure the same time is used on each case. Seems like a good setup.

[Love Life]

Sooo.....

Who wants to guinea pig this with me?

I pay the money for the equipment, and electrical savvy guy or gal builds pid and timer. They get to do R&D without material expenditure, anneal their brass, and I end up with a completed unit on the back end.

I do not want rights to this nor do I want to patent it. I just want one.

Who's with me here?

[Just Duke]

That is just the coil kit, Duke. Still need the main part.

I like the pid idea, and it would only require a second or two at 750 to anneal the neck correctly.

Here's an offer. If I were willing to buy the induction heater, would one of you electrical savvy gentlemen or women want to figure out a timer? You can anneal all your brass, conduct R&D on just the timer part, and then know exactly what you need to build your own. I would of course pay for all the timer parts and labor so I end up with a complete unit on the back end of it.

Any takers?

Copy that.

[Just Duke]

I think mounting this on a cheap lee press is just the ticket. The press with a switch would ensure the same location on each case is annealed, the switch would ensure the same time is used on each case. Seems like a good setup.

I'm thinking a die plate mounted unit in a 650

[jmorris]

All you would need is a delay off relay to set the time. That is the cheap part but the $370 the induction heater costs and the more difficult process of automation is why I stuck with the torch setup on my machines.

Most folks have hundreds less in a finished automated annealer than what that heater costs alone.

[thehouseproduct]

I'm thinking a die plate mounted unit in a 650
I agree a progressive would be great, I just worry about the heat cycle going through my expensive Blue, Green or Red presses. A custom plate for a 550 or 650 would be amazing.

[jmorris]

One of these would work.


http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Relays_-z-_Timers/Timer_Relays_-z-_Counters_-z-_Tachometers/Fuji_Electric_Timer_Relays_Mini-DIN_(ST7_Series)

[MarkP]

TOCCO induction units were used in the arsenals for anealing cases way back in Korean war era; I saw them in the Twin Cities Arsenal when they were selling equpiment back in 94'.

[jmorris]

This thread is a little old but on topic.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=383329&highlight=induction+annealer

[Love Life]

Thanks for the links jmorris. I don't really see the need for me to create an automated case annealer. The inductor unit does it fast enough to where I don't need to create an auto case annealer. Grab set the inductor on a block or something, slide the case through the coils so only the part you want annealed gets annealed, lift the inductor a bit and knock the case out of the way.


Hmmmmm.

[perotter]

While I was thinking of different brand, that one that jmorris should work fine.

The only thing I'd check is what the duty cycle is of that induction tool. I'd guess that it isn't 80-100% and more like 20-30%. Even if it was 20% and 2 seconds per case that would be 1 every 10 seconds.

[bangerjim]

This one would work in a press. http://www.amazon.com/Induction-Innovations-Long-Ductor-Pre-Formed/dp/B007QV68EI/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_7

So where are you getting the low voltage high current transformer to run those coils?

And what the heck is in that cardboard tube in the background?

bahgerjim

[Love Life]

So where are you getting the low voltage high current transformer to run those coils?

And what the heck is in that cardboard tube in the background?

bahgerjim

That is just a coil pack. The cardboard tube is the container the come in.

[jmorris]

I don't really see the need for me to create an automated case annealer


It is only needed if you want to do something else while they are being annealed.

[Love Life]

I see that. That is not my case. I don't mind sitting there and annealing the brass. It passes the time.

[jmorris]

I understand that for sure, thats why I "tinker" as much as I do.

If you want someone to wire up the relay send me a PM and I'll help you out.

I don't think a PID would be the right way to go, be hard to find a fast enough acting thermocouple.

[Love Life]

Sweet deal! I'll put my thoughts together and get a PM of to you. I'm out in the garage now watching the brass spin and tempilaq melt annealing 308 brass so I can turn it into 338 federal brass.

[jonas302]

It will not work well on brass I have a Mini-ductor it works best on magnetic materials I tried to solder a copper wire end once and it never got hot but just for fun I will pop out to the shop later and try a piece of brass

[Love Life]

I'm going to sit this idea out. A can of propane gas goes a long way in annealing brass.

[jmorris]

That is the conclusion that I came to. I don't know how many cases a 20# tank of propane will anneal but it would be many, many thousands.

[Love Life]

Yeah. I did a few hundred over the last couply days using the tempilag, socket, socket extension, twirl in the flame routine and annealed several hundred pieces of brass in short order.

The idea has merit, but the money could be better spent...like on a 338 barrel.

[Cane_man]

just use your Lee 4-20 pot and a PID