Anyone paint cars?

[DeanWinchester]

I have a jeep I am going to need to paint soon. Actually, I don't think it's a jeep technically speaking. It's a 1969 M151A2 MUTT.
There are a few options for "correct" paint and the one I have chosen is a semi gloss USMC forest green.
The paint I ordered is a Gillespie coatings Non-acrylic alkalyd enamel.

It's my understanding that the thinner used is dependant on temp and conditions. Well, I'm hoping to paint it this fall, outside on a clear sunny day when temps are in the 70's or so. Based on google searches xylene seems to be a good choice for thinner.
Is there a hardener I need?

I know absolutely NOTHING about painting but I'm gonna do it anyway. This is gonna be for rough neck woods use and general purpose goofing off so its not like a show room shine is what I'm after but I would like to at least make it look like I tried to get it right.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[ctious]

I paint cars. Most stuff these days is base clear. But I have done single stage flats and semi flats. The paint you are using I personally have not used. You should request a spec sheet. On there u will find your data u are looking for. The single stage paints I have used, were add a hardner at 1/7. The thinner was not needed. But was an option. I used a little. Just to make it more spray friendly.

[DeanWinchester]

Ive asked the place I ordered it from. They haven't got back to me yet, but they will.
I just thought I'd ask here too. Sometimes manufacturer recommendations differ greatly from what an experienced hand has learned.

[Wayne Smith]

Dean, I'm not a painter by far and long away! I can tell you that the preparation of the surface is as important as the paint. This is true across the board in finishes, and I do woodwork as a hobby.

[alrighty]

I have never used that brand but I have sprayed the non-acrylic alkyd (oil based) enamels and used Xylene at a 4:1 ratio.Mostly I spray old tractors and use valspar brand paint , thinner, and hardener at a 4:1:1 mix.I like the hardener but it does give more of a gloss look the more you add in.The advantage of the hardener is it dries a lot faster and makes the paint more durable.Not sure about a valspar dealer near you but if you have a TSC store nearby they should have it in stock.

[DeanWinchester]

There's a TSC right up the street. Thanks!

[Garyshome]

Last jeep i painted was a CJ6 not sure what year. I used a brush and some Orange pavement paint. It worked out well for snow plowing.

[oldred]

A couple of very important points here you need to consider and the first is safety! That "old school" enamel paint sprayed outside is about as safe as it gets for paint and back in the 70's I sprayed lots of that stuff inside with nothing but a hanky over my face, dumb thing to do but but still I sprayed many gallons of it with no apparent ill effects. Now back to what has been suggested -using hardener! Hardener will definitively improve gloss and durability (unfortunately unless this thing is garage kept this type of paint will only last a couple of years even with hardener) but once it's added the paint becomes EXTREMELY dangerous!!! The Isocyanate based hardeners can easily kill you, not just make you sick, but KILL you! Some people may get away with some exposure while others will get very ill before they finish spraying, it depends on the concentration of the over-spray being inhaled and the person's tolerance to this poison (which BTW is the same chemical in the Bophal India leak disaster of some years ago). If you do use hardener use a good approved activated carbon cartridge type respirator and goggles even if you do spray outside. DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU SPAYING OUTSIDE MAKES IT SAFE!!!! You will hear all the anecdotal examples of "I do it all the time and it don't hurt me" and "old Bubba has done it for years without a respirator" but don't listen to that nonsense! Some guys do indeed seem to get away with it (for a while anyway) while many others do not, I am not making a mountain out of a mole hill here because this is serious stuff and the hazards associated with it is the main reason for the astronomical costs of today's paints. If you are not equipped to spray Isos then it's best left alone, this stuff can and will hurt you bad if you give it the chance -I know because I learned the hard way!!!


Now after all that another problem with the paint you have selected is the fact it takes seemingly eons to dry, it will remain wet and thus subject to dust and bugs (flying insects seem to be drawn to fresh paint like it's a bright light!) for a loooooong time and your finish could be a disaster with dust and bug wings/legs sticking out all over it. A better choice for cheap outdoor painting would be to use Lacquer which is still available if you look for it, I think some Oreilly auto parts stores carries it, this stuff dries almost instantly and any runs, drips,sags,bugs, etc are very easily repaired since lacquer can be "spot sprayed" with no problem at all. It also is about as safe as it gets for spray paint.

Check out what a few others have to say about Isos in paint,

http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=pbwork&th=20009%253E

http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=nboard&th=574113

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/113852-enamel-hardener-paint-safety-2.html


MANY other links to similar warnings and they are not joking, lead fumes are healthy by comparison!

BTW, the references to "charcoal" respirators are the same as the Activated Carbon respirators, Activated Carbon filters are very often mistakenly called "Charcoal" when they are in fact not charcoal at all.

[Mk42gunner]

I've rolled and brushed on more paint than most people have seen, while I was in the Navy; plus I have sprayed a few vehicles and some farm equipment with the aforementioned Valspar paint.

Oldred brings up a valid point: get and use the right respirator. There is absolutely no sense not doing it these days.

Use a compatible primer, I can remember lots of paint coming off the primer and sometimes primer coming off the metal when the Navy stopped using redlead primer.

I am not a professional spray painter, but the Valspar primer and paint worked better for me without thinning it. I was doing a cheap job and didn't use any hardener, but the paint still looks okay on my grain cart six or seven years later (stored outside).

Robert

[oldred]

Just another point about Isos and safety, this stuff can also be absorbed through skin and over-spray contact with the eyes is another point of entry, if a person experiences eye watering or burning they are being exposed to dangerous amounts of Iso. Also the activated carbon respirators, both the one use and the replaceable filter type, can be used although there will probably be a warning on them not to use them with Iso containing sprays. This is a lawyer thing here where they are protecting their, well you know what, since they can't control how the respirator will be maintained and used. For instance a painter with a beard would experience leakage as would any painter who used an improperly fitted/sized mask plus there is the VERY important issue of filter life. DO NOT USE filters that have been outside the package and thus exposed to the air for more than one day, actually the recommended life after the package seal has been broken is just eight hours. I know guys who just toss their respirator after every use and I know some who will use the filters until they clog but of those who used the filters over and over two are now suffering from nerve damage with symptoms very similar to Parkinson's disease. I said earlier I learned the hard way, that was over 25 years ago and I still have problems from it to this day! What got me was going into the paint booth to unmask and clean up vehicles we had recently painted and since the exhaust fans were very noisy we usually just left them off while doing this, after all there was little to no odor coming from the new paint so it was safe to go in there right? WRONG! Both me and the fellow who worked for me at the time got sick at almost the same time although our symptoms were very different, I suffered nerve problems with uncontrollable shaking while he suffered severe lung problems that left him disabled. His exposure was heavier than mine since he had been spraying this stuff a lot more than I had but regardless it left him in a world of hurt! I know all this is from far more exposure that simply one time outdoor of spraying enamel paint with a hardener added but trust me when I tell you that even that amount of exposure could be very dangerous to some folks and some are so sensitive (as I am now) they can't even get past mixing the hardener into the paint!

[rockrat]

Guy in my A&P class, his dad sprayed paints using the isocyanate, on small jobs. Never used a respirator as they were just "small jobs", like model airplanes, and usually in a barn with the doors open.
He showed up one day and you could tell something was wrong, told us his dad was painting a model airplane and just fell over and died.

Be careful

[DeanWinchester]

As goofy as I might look, I have SEVERAL milsurp gas masks and a case of NATO NBC filters. I'll use of them. If it was designed to filter mustard gas, I reckon it'll work for paint fumes. Lol!

[oldred]

told us his dad was painting a model airplane and just fell over and died.Be careful


I have a story close to that but with a somewhat better ending, a guy I know in Eastern Ky was restoring an old Studebaker truck and used a single stage Urethane paint (same Isos as used in the enamel hardener) for the finish. He was using a respirator, I have no idea how well it fit or was maintained but I suspect poorly in both instances, however later that night he started smothering and developed chills. His wife suspected he was having a heat attack so she rushed him to the ER where it was determined to be a reaction to the Isos in the paint, by the time he had arrived at the ER he could hardly breath! This fellow was working in a back yard garage and only took rudimentary precautions and it almost cost him his life, this is one substance that the old attitude "aw everything will kill you to hear them tell it" will lead to it really doing so!


I have had people argue that if it was all that bad it would be harder to get but read the label, it clearly says "for professional use only not for retail sale" or some words to that effect but I can't remember the exact wording. This plus the fact there most certainly has been an ongoing effort to eliminate or at least tightly control this very dangerous product is very telling but the paint industry (think Dupont, PPG, Dow, BASF etc) stands to lose a lot of money if this happens, these guys have a lot of clout and some very good lawyers.

[David2011]

As goofy as I might look, I have SEVERAL milsurp gas masks and a case of NATO NBC filters. I'll use of them. If it was designed to filter mustard gas, I reckon it'll work for paint fumes. Lol!

Not a safe assumption. It MIGHT work, but are you willing to bet your life on it? If you're using the alkyd enamel, that's about as safe as paint gets but if you go to a hardener, it becomes dangerous.


He showed up one day and you could tell something was wrong, told us his dad was painting a model airplane and just fell over and died.

I knew a guy in Houston that did the same thing. He lived but it was close.

David

[Huskerguy]

Don't use lacquer, it is total junk and the last I knew, technically illegal because it contains so much solvent or VOC volatile organic compounds (thinner) to make it sprayable. it is hard and brittle but yes, fairly easy to work with. Old enamels are a poor finish for just about anything but an implement. Find a good single stage urethane at any paint store. Yes it will be more money but you get what you pay for. All paint will have instructions, follow them. don't take the numbers on here, they are different for all paints. Activators or hardeners provide many benefits. They provide more gloss and increased durability. Some paints must have the activator to even work. If you use cheap paint you will be extremely disappointed in the long run and you are throwing your money down the drain.

I painted cars for 10 years and taught auto collision in a college for another 15. We changed paint brands one year at the college and after 25 years I reacted to the new paint and ended up with a lung disease called hypersensitiviypneumonitis. That was 1999 but I am fine now, no problems but it was not good for several years. Wear an approved mask, they make good disposable ones these days, the ones that cover your entire face are best, 3M makes them and they are not cheap. Isocyantes are moisture seekers. The go into your body through any moisture areas, eyes, mouth, nose, etc. These are NOT the same as the cyanide gas as has been stated in Indai but they are a distant cousin according to my chemist doctors in Denver, CO. What happens is as the paint dries the activator links up or chemically bonds with the paint film during a chemical reaction. This gives off a gas and this is where the isocyanate comes from, it is gassing off the paint. Be aware, any vehicle gives off the gases for several days and weeks. Wear gloves and cover every inch of your body and especially your head where they like the pores of your hair. They sell a ty-vec suit that is very inexpensive, buy one.

You can paint outside but don't expect good results. You will not have good light, dirt and bugs will be a problem. Watch for paint drift, it can go a long ways and sticks to everything commonly called overspray. Also use a HVLP gun which will save you materials and reduce the amount of overspray. HVLP=High Velocity Low Pressure. They are pretty cheap these days.

Good luck with your project but do yourself a favor and take all precautions. Your life is way too short anyway.

[rondog]

Pay a professional to do it. Last time I painted a motorcycle I thought I was going to suffocate, and I'm sure there was respiratory or other damage. Ain't worth the risk!

[unclogum bill]

I've painted rough like your planning about a dozen times (state auctioned vans) , sprayed them white for cheap and run them a year or two. Bought cheap paint at Valley Auto . Did 3 cars as well spent more time there and it showed. Here's some tips. You don.t need a word class gun but you do need adequit air supply. Those guns suck the air and most compressors have trouble keeping up. If your compressor says it will do 11 cfm it probably wont. Once you start and they run short your doomed. No catching up. I had 3 small compressors acquired at garage sales and cobbled from dump tied in series. that gave me the air needed. Harbor fright will sell you a decent filter and regulator . (also a OK gun if you need it.) . Got to have no wind and right temperature. I would wash down a truckers tarp I had and roll truck up on it. Four bed sheets (thrift store , tight weave) , one around each tire, Use decent tape (blue masking tape (get six rolls, can always bring it back)) I know most people will cringe at this but I used newspaper to mask windows, bumpers , windsheild wipers, grill, lights. If you have a piece of cardboard, old piece if tin, practice with gun on it to get flow right. Youtube videos on it I'm sure. Wear long sleeve shirt, A grocery bag taped on your head is a good hat. Start with roof and work down. That way you don't hit wet sides with air hose. To much overspray will stick on auto and give you a rough finish. No fixing a drip or sag,experience is the only fix there. When you start you are committed, no stopping for coffee, the bugs will come visit. And I'm sure someone said this and its true. the prepwork is what makes a good job.

[joesig]

...TSC store nearby they should have it in stock.

TSC now has Majic paint (?)

I found Valspar on Amazon.

[oldred]

Duplicate post

[oldred]

NOT the same as the cyanide gas as has been stated in Indai

I have to disagree, it WAS the same chemical and it was NOT cyanide gas (as some news media did erroneously report at the time) that leaked from that plant in India, look it up! Methyl Isocyanate is what is a distant cousin of cyanide and it is only one chemical of the mix used in hardeners and activators, it is however the most toxic of the brew. What leaked in India was a pesticide mix of chemicals which had the Methyl Isocyanate as an ingredient, just as with the paint products it was by far the most toxic of the brew. I never intended to mean that pure Isos is what was leaking from that plant or that pure Isocyanate is used for hardener/activator, it is of course just an ingredient in both the paint products and the pesticide -the deadly ingredient in both products however.


Took about ten seconds to look it up and it most certainly IS the same chemical, here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster

[oldred]

I've painted rough like your planning about a dozen times (state auctioned vans) , sprayed them white for cheap and run them a year or two. Bought cheap paint at Valley Auto . Did 3 cars as well spent more time there and it showed. Here's some tips. You don.t need a word class gun but you do need adequit air supply. Those guns suck the air and most compressors have trouble keeping up. If your compressor says it will do 11 cfm it probably wont. Once you start and they run short your doomed. No catching up. I had 3 small compressors acquired at garage sales and cobbled from dump tied in series. that gave me the air needed. Harbor fright will sell you a decent filter and regulator . (also a OK gun if you need it.) . Got to have no wind and right temperature. I would wash down a truckers tarp I had and roll truck up on it. Four bed sheets (thrift store , tight weave) , one around each tire, Use decent tape (blue masking tape (get six rolls, can always bring it back)) I know most people will cringe at this but I used newspaper to mask windows, bumpers , windsheild wipers, grill, lights. If you have a piece of cardboard, old piece if tin, practice with gun on it to get flow right. Youtube videos on it I'm sure. Wear long sleeve shirt, A grocery bag taped on your head is a good hat. Start with roof and work down. That way you don't hit wet sides with air hose. To much overspray will stick on auto and give you a rough finish. No fixing a drip or sag,experience is the only fix there. When you start you are committed, no stopping for coffee, the bugs will come visit. And I'm sure someone said this and its true. the prepwork is what makes a good job.


Definitely good tips for a one time painting job done on the cheap, especially your very correct advice on the compressor air supply. This is one item where a lot of people get it wrong and the usual advice is to get a bigger tank or add a second tank to increase air supply but that simply does not work, it will only change the compressor cycling rate. As you so correctly pointed out CFM is what matters and if it's not there then the tank will not fix the problem, if the compressor can't keep up because of a lack of CFM it will still run out of air with a bgger tank then the painter will be stuck with having to wait longer for it to catch up, that along with the fact the pump will almost certainly over heat from exceeding it's duty cycle from trying to run too long in order to fill the oversized tank capacity will actually cause a LOSS of air supply due to the loss of efficiency because of the overheated air.

[oldred]

TSC now has Majic paint (?)

I found Valspar on Amazon.



Yep they quit carrying the Valspar a while back dang it! They did have a really good line of implement paint that was about as good as any automotive type enamel I have ever used, it went on as slick as any and held up really well where I used it (mostly tractors). Some of these things have been out in the sun for several years now and are holding up as well as any automotive enamels and I would not hesitate to use them for an econo paint job on a car or truck except for the limited color availability.

[Just Duke]

I like PPG.

[oldred]

I like PPG.


And for good reason! I too like PPG as my first choice for a quality paint and they make the best primers on the market IMO. Unfortunately most folks looking for an economy paint job such as the OP described will be in danger of a massive coronary from the shock when they price "Real" paint! This is of course not limited to PPG which has average pricing on quality paints, it's just the way it is when using top quality supplies no matter what brand. A lot of this price is due to the hazards associated with using this stuff, extremely expensive product liability insurance and defending product liability lawsuits have become some of the major costs of marketing paint these days.