Pedersoli Rocky Mountian Hawken - Thoughts

[GARD72977]

Just thought I would ask. I am re-organizing my ML to be geared toward the Rondy and monthly shoot. I have been looking at the Pedersoli form cabela's. It is a good looking gun and I know it is not a authentic as a custom gun but it looks pretty darn good. I was stuck on the 54 now I cant decide between the 50 and 54. How would this gun do for Rondy fun and competition.

I don't care about the weight. I have been shooting a H&A target underhammer that is the same weight.

I have a HC/PC North West Trade gun (Thanks Rick!) I want a cap gun also. I have plans (on the list) for a Soddy-Daisy Tenn flinter but it is 18 mos out and I don't have that much money right now!

I am thinning down to just 2 MLs for now. I want to practice with what Im going to shoot in competition.

[johnson1942]

im lost as to what kind of shoot your referring to but im really rural out here. i believe the gun your talking about is very expensive and very very top end. i had a fellow fron idaho call me a year ago to help set up what i think your talking about. his was a 1/28 twist but it looked like a traditional hawken rifle. he had to use a .50 lead bullet for elk to be legal and we found one that shot tight groups at 100 yards. i also sent him some paperpatched .50 cal bullets and they shot very well also. it may be your looking for a roundball gun to shoot traditional and it may be that gun is avail. in slower twist rates. if you go for a slower twist go with the .54 as i suspect it will win contest on accracy a little better than the .50 roundball. be careful about the twist rate of the rifle you want as it will limit you in the bullet you shoot.

[waksupi]

Try looking at the selling section on the American Long Rifles site. There are some good deals show up on there.
How does the trade gun shoot for you?

[fouronesix]

Since there were quite a few "versions/styles" of original Hawken rifles I don't think the concept of exact copy fits even most custom rifles. If you're concerned about it- the pictures of the Pedersoli look very good and close enough for sure. I've never held one of their Rocky Mtns, but the scuttlebutt is they are as good as any as far as HC and close replica goes. They look like a late period Hawken style- as have been most of the good replica Hawkens- such as the Santa Fe by Uberti and the Ithaca. Pedersoli has a pretty good rep for quality so I imagine you'll be happy with one.

Which caliber? Whatever your taste is. I assume the across the flats dimension is the same for those two calibers, so the 54 will be a tad lighter. I like the 54 cal in those- but that's just me. Also, I thought I read they have a 7 groove bore. If so, that's good as I've always liked a 7 groove. Twist rate and depth of groove- I dunno- but you should check on those specs.

Unless you already purchased it, you might also shop around a little in the used muzzleloader market- as has been suggested. I see good ones fairly often advertised here and there and the prices seem to be very good. Many priced at about the cost of parts- which means someone has "eaten" a fairly sizable amount of sweat equity.

[Lead Fred]

Production guns are third world craftsmanship.

Head over to Jim Chambers website & get a real bore stuffer

http://www.flintlocks.com/

[GARD72977]

The twist for the Rocky Mountain Hawken in 54 cal is 1/65 (34in bbl) and the 50 is 1/47 (32 in bbl) weight of gun does not change with caliber. It is the Missouri Hawken that has the 1/27 for conicals. I have looked at used guns and have not found anything in the price range that I like. Eventually I will up grade this gun to a full custom but for now I need a nice ML rifle. Who know I may like it enough to keep it.

Rick the Trade gun shoots good. I have only shot it about 30 times. It is my first Flinter so I have learned a lot. My follow through is pretty good. I will need to bend the barrel but Im going to get help with that from the more experienced group in the club. We have some serious smoothbore competitors. I have to get use to not having the rear sight. The gun is shooting low and to the right. At 27 yds I was grouping about 1 inch wide and 4 inches tall. Some of the Vertical string was changing sight picture to compensate for shooting low. I intend on competing with the smoothbore.

In Europe the Rocky Mountain Hawken is offered in 45 cal 30in bbl.

[Nikkisdad]

Just bought one and all I can say is wow. Outstanding workmanship for a production gun. Shot nine rounds the other day, just could not wait to get her out. Loaded 90 FFG, .530 swaged ball & .015 pillow ticking patch. First three touched at 40 yards the rest were at 50 yards and grouped real well. Going out today to stretch it out further and play with some different loads up to 110 which is around the max mark. Oh, mine is the maple stock and it is pretty.:-D

[DIRT Farmer]

Before bending the barrel, I would try a piece of leather on the cheek piece if you are a right hand shooter. bending the barrel can go wrong without the proper fixtures. I know that a lot of them have been done on a forked tree, but they can heat up and wonder in a string of shots.
I built my own trade gun/fowler and shaped the cheek piece to place my eye to get it shoot to point of aim.

[GARD72977]

Just bought one and all I can say is wow. Outstanding workmanship for a production gun. Shot nine rounds the other day, just could not wait to get her out. Loaded 90 FFG, .530 swaged ball & .015 pillow ticking patch. First three touched at 40 yards the rest were at 50 yards and grouped real well. Going out today to stretch it out further and play with some different loads up to 110 which is around the max mark. Oh, mine is the maple stock and it is pretty.:-D

I have read good reviews before but yours it too much for me to handle. Its on back order but Im going to place the order this week end. The 54 seems to have everything going for it 34' bbl and 1/65 twist. I just wish they gave the option of a plain maple stock. I do not like a hawken in walnut. I was unsure at first but I am very excited now. I am really trading 3 muzzloaders out of the safe for this one. I think it is the right decision but giving up the underhammers hard to do.

In response to DIRT Farmer - I think you have the right idea. It would pull my shots to the left and higher. I have read about this somewhere. how do I add the leather?

[waksupi]

I would try increasing the charge and see if that brings it up. On a lot of them, it seems the base of the front sight is where you need to aim from. On mine, I sight so I just see the wedding band, and the sight base. As far as left and right, a lot of that is eye memory. Find the right sight picture, and get so you repeat it every time.

[GARD72977]

I am shooting a .595 ball with 70 gr of 3f KIK. The distance was only a little over 25 yards. I will work up and see what happens. There was no fouling ring in the barrel with that charge.

[waksupi]

That should be pretty close to the right charge.

[GARD72977]

There is a Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken with walnut stock on gunbroker. It is new with out box and they want 800 for it. Really does not seem like that much of a deal since shipping for Cabelas is cheap and I like the Maple stock.

[Dakota's Dad]

Gard72977.. did you end up ordering one? I have looked at the P-RMH many times in the last 3-4 years... They were "out of stock" but "backorder ok" on my birthday in early Nov. They were also on sale for $999. I had a couple gift cards that were worth $200 total.. so ordered one.

It came yesterday. It's a fine looking gun. The wood on mine is very nice and the metal to wood fit is very close, better than either of my kit guns I built. The weather here has been very bad for about 2 weeks.. but low and behold, the sun is peeking through, the snow and ice are melting.. so... Old oil barrel at 50 yards, 8x11 sheet of paper with a 2 inch orange sticky.. 85gr of Shockey's, RCBS .530, .010 prelubed patch. Dozen balls down range off hand, all in the orange. :) Late season ML starts in the morning.. 9 days to get 'er done..

[GARD72977]

Gard72977.. did you end up ordering one? I have looked at the P-RMH many times in the last 3-4 years... They were "out of stock" but "backorder ok" on my birthday in early Nov. They were also on sale for $999. I had a couple gift cards that were worth $200 total.. so ordered one.

It came yesterday. It's a fine looking gun. The wood on mine is very nice and the metal to wood fit is very close, better than either of my kit guns I built. The weather here has been very bad for about 2 weeks.. but low and behold, the sun is peeking through, the snow and ice are melting.. so... Old oil barrel at 50 yards, 8x11 sheet of paper with a 2 inch orange sticky.. 85gr of Shockey's, RCBS .530, .010 prelubed patch. Dozen balls down range off hand, all in the orange. :) Late season ML starts in the morning.. 9 days to get 'er done..

You are really making me feel bad. I ended up buying a Unfired Uberti Santa Fe hawken stamped 54cal but the first run was actually 53cal. It is a very nice gun and I love it but the thought that should have bought the Rocky Mountain Hawken is still there. It was out of stock when I needed it.

I bet that gun is beautiful. Don't rub it in too much!!!

[Maven]

"I ended up buying an unfired Uberti Santa Fe Hawken."

So, what's the problem GARD?

[Marvin S]

You should find that Santa-Fe Hawken to have accuracy second to none. They are not pickey or load sensitive either. No need to feel bad as there are plenty of other people that will take it.

[GARD72977]

I really don't feel bad about the Uberti. I just really wanted the Rocky Mountain Hawken. The Uberti seems to like any load I put in it. I just wish it had a 34" bbl

[waksupi]

You are really making me feel bad. I ended up buying a Unfired Uberti Santa Fe hawken stamped 54cal but the first run was actually 53cal. It is a very nice gun and I love it but the thought that should have bought the Rocky Mountain Hawken is still there. It was out of stock when I needed it.

I bet that gun is beautiful. Don't rub it in too much!!!

That should be a good gun. That is the one that was supposedly copied from Bridger's Hawken that is in the Montana state museum. I think it was John Baird and Ed Kenney that borrowed it from the museum to do the blue prints, and of course they shot it before returning it to the museum. It is also a .53, although most were still called .54.

[fouronesix]

No, you didn't make a mistake! Those S Fe Hawkens (made by Uberti for Western Arms) are a very close copy of the real thing. They were 53 cal from the get go. Many broken wood ramrods and frustrated shooters in the beginning because most assumed they were a nominal 54 cal. Get some .520 roundballs. Also, I think they all had the common 1/4x28 nipple- at least the ones I've been around had. I've had 2-3 different ones over the years and still have one. They were and still are one of the best factory made Hawken replicas out there.

[GARD72977]

I have a Jeff Tanner .520 mold . I have a couple hundred balls through it .

[fouronesix]

If the brass nutcracker works well then no problem. FYI, both Lyman and RCBS make or made .520 RB molds that are very good.

[GARD72977]

I have a thick patching that works pretty well. Im thinking of ordering a .519 mold from tanner

[fouronesix]

A slightly smaller ball makes sense if you are wanting to load with thumb pressure only for rendezvous or some competitions. I wouldn't doubt even .516-.518 to allow for that type loading using .012-.015 ticking. But it depends on your particular bore specs.

I worked on mine for accuracy and found the best load: .520 RB with .012 patch, moose milk lube and about 75 gr FF BP. But it does require a medium thump with a short starter- not a hard hit but more than thumb pressure only.

[Dakota's Dad]

That Uberti Santa Fe hawken looks to be a fine rifle. I bet had I stumbled on one, or if I do in the future, I would/will take it home..

[fouronesix]

After Western Arms went out of business, along with the aggravation of the 53 caliber, the going price for them was about $200. I bought 2 for $400 in the mid-80s. Sold both of them to friends for what I paid. Found another one in about 1988-9? for $200 and have kept that one. After taking a good look at the the lock and doing a minimal amount of honing to slick it up, I'd rate the quality as very good to excellent.

Currently I have no idea what the going price is for one- probably depends on the bore condition like all those MLs from that era.

[Marvin S]

There is several pages about them over at contemporary longrifle web site. Its under collecting page five. A nice one brings three to four times what you gave.

[fouronesix]

Thanks for that heads up! I hadn't seen that thread. One or two of the guys did a lot of research that is invaluable.

I got a kick out of reading through it. Seems forums are no different anywhere. With some of the X-spurts nit picking the finer points of the single design decided upon and sold by W.A. .... as if they had seen all the original Hawken rifles which were made through the years of their existence :)

[johnson1942]

i guess i never been overly traditional since i went through a gun display many years ago up at dead wood s.dak. they had a couple of hundred muzzle loaders their that was left over from the 1800/s boom they had their. i realized then that a lot of them were put together from bits and pieces from other worn out muzzleloaders. nothing you would reconize but some really nice bastard guns. ive done the same ever since. in a way that is traditional. i start with parts, a idea and wood and out comes a gun. they are all diff. look good and shoot good. their is no school their. if i was going for a school type gun i would like a long rifle in the reading design, they flow from any angle. havent hit the lottery yet but if i ever did some reading school design guys would be busy.

[Dakota's Dad]

Thanks for that heads up! I hadn't seen that thread. One or two of the guys did a lot of research that is invaluable.

I got a kick out of reading through it. Seems forums are no different anywhere. With some of the X-spurts nit picking the finer points of the single design decided upon and sold by W.A. .... as if they had seen all the original Hawken rifles which were made through the years of their existence :)

Yes sir. Another forum I lurk on has some very heated "debates" about these kind of things. I have held/fondled/played with a couple real Hawkens, at the Frasier in Louisville. I guarantee that 99% of people couldn't tell, or wouldn't notice, the differences between those and my GPR.. meanwhile these guys are calling into question each others parentage and lineage over some little thing like the size of the screw head on the toe plate.. It's a lot of what keeps me to a 1-2 post annual post rate. Hundreds to thousands of plains style rifles built in the "Hawken's style" all by hand, and used, abused, repaired, and refurbished for decades.. but they all were "just like this"..

Anyways, got in another dozen shots today with the Rocky Mountain Hawken... lovin' it.

[GARD72977]

I agree about all hype over what is right and what is wrong. Here is where there problem come in. The Rocky mountain Hawken is expensive at a grand. I would struggle paying more that that no matter how nice the gun is (custom or not). These guns are usually not welcome in the click at the Rondys. They will let you participate but if do well it was with a Cap lock not a Flinter. I take nothing for these fine gun. I just don't have the income to pay 2k for a correct gun that has not place in Rondys or competition. I have seen some Hawken competitions online but we don't have them around here.

To be clear I love the Rocky Mountain Hawken and other than the writing on the barrel there is not much I could complain about.

[johnson1942]

to those of us who build muzzleloaders a strick style limits out creative abilities. ive seen hundreds of trade rifles and even those had a lot of modifications by those who used them way back when. i live withing 25 miles of the furtrader museum and they have a large number of trade rifles on display. i have always like the idea of makeing something out of nothing(cast away parts.) i have worked only with native americans since 1990 as a registered nurse. a couple of native friends of mine have said to me, roger you have got to be part native as you can build something out of junk, because that how we are. if you go to the furtrade museum you will see how good the natives were at changeing guns to keep them going and fitting them to their needs. thats my school. muzzle loading is just plain fun and after church to day the weather has finally let me blow some smoke to day.

[Omnivore]

Good stuff here. I'm reminded of how I read a lot about how very few of the original Hawkins had cap boxes and most were in large calibers, and then I find a display of original Hawkins, almost all of which happen to have cap boxes and calibers starting with a 3 or a 4. Yeah, so the one I'm building will be spec'ed to my liking and thus it will be "just like an original".