4227 in 30-30

[tuckerdog]

anyone using imr4227 in the 30-30? 311041. 1937 model 36 marlin. I don't have any data for that powder. normally use 3031

[Lead Fred]

its way hotter than 3031, I'd not use it. My rule is not more than 5 hotter/colder than the center norm.
Its like 20

[RickinTN]

Not long ago I did some research on 4227 myself. I did try a little but not enough to be conclusive. I found much data for the 32-40 which I used. The 32-40 is a similar capacity case to the 30-30 just at lower pressure so any data for the 32-40 is safe in a 30-30. I did find that 4227 was considered one of the "accuracy" powders for the 32-40, and thus should work quite well for the 30-30. Most of the data i found delivered velocities in the 1,300 to 1,500 fps range.
Good Luck,
Rick

[tuckerdog]

thanks RickinTN that's about the vel range I was looking for. What is your source for load data.

[RickinTN]

I'm traveling now and don't have my notes with me. I did a simple yahoo search for "32-40 4227 cast data" or similar and found all I wanted. I did cross reference the data I found with the current Lyman cast bullet handbook and found it to be comparable. H4227 and IMR4227 have in the past been very comparable powders and most would say interchangeable however I understand that recently both are manufactured in the same plant and are indeed the same powder. My reasoning was that the 32-40 is the grandaddy of all 30 caliber accuracy cartridges and since it and the 30-30 are so similar the same data should work well in the 30-30 also. Another recommended powder for the 32-40 that I also cross referenced for the 30-30 was one of the 4198's, which I also treat as interchangeable between the two cartridges.
Good Luck, and let me know if I can help further,
Rick

[Ford SD]

anyone using imr4227 in the 30-30? 311041. 1937 model 36 marlin. I don't have any data for that powder. normally use 3031

check out
http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/OM/default.html

Lyman # 44

Is it the old Imr 4227 ----> Made in Canada
or the new 4227 Data is close but not the same

[RickinTN]

That is an interesting link to the old manuals.
Thanks for posting it,
Rick

[BoolitBill]

I use 16.5 gr. of IMR 4227 over the 311041 as my 30/30 loves it! I estimate 1500 to 1600 fps. Works well with the Ranch dog mold as well. This is my 50 yd. plinker load as it is mild in recoil and very accurate in my rifle. I have not taken it hunting yet but maybe this year!

[tuckerdog]

thx will start about 15.5 and work up

[9w1911]

I love this website I was looking for a load for 4227 and 30-30 and here we go.

[popper]

4227 not position sensitive? I've used it in 308 with filler - didn't try without it.

[303Guy]

its way hotter than 3031, I'd not use it. My rule is not more than 5 hotter/colder than the center norm.
Its like 20

I understand where Lead Fred is coming from. It's a double edged sword. A double charge will do astonishing things to the gun on the one hand while on the other, it seems to be a great powder for the application and cost effective too. As much as I don't like small charges in a large case, it does work well and I have used it in a 303 Brit and I dare say I will be using it a lot more. I also recommend the use of Dacron as a powder positioner. It will at the very least do no harm.

[JWFilips]

I'm using 16.5 gr 4227 ( no filler) with a 165 grain NOE RD boolit in my 1970's Marlin 336 30-30 It is a light load not sure the speed ( maybe 1500 fps) ..very accurate. I do seat to touch rifling I'm only shooting paper so I load single shot not tube mag.

[45-70 Chevroner]

This thread is a year and four months old but here goes any way. Loads for his boolit 311041 using 4227 is found in the 4th edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, which may not have been available then, the load starts at 17gr and goes up to 22gr. It is a good thread though, with some reasonable answers

[303Guy]

I didn't notice the vintage. Funny there has been no feedback. I would love to know how it went for the OP.

[mac266]

I use the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and the RCBS Cast Bullet Handbook (the former is better!) for my cast boolit load data. If the powder is listed in one of those manuals, it's perfectly safe to use. In fact, my .30-30 load uses 4227 because I got the data from Lyman! I'm out of town and don't have my notes with me, so I don't remember what charge I worked up to, but I almost always stay a few grains lower than max.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I have used 15 grains 4227 with both the Lyman 311041 and 311407 in a 1963 micro-groove Marlin 336C 30-30 (bought new - $53). Very accurate.

[1Shirt]

My rule of thumb regarding powder selection for a ctg is: " If the powder is not listed in any of three manuals, don't use it"
1Shirt!

[cold1]

Tried using it in 223 for reduced loads. At 10g I experienced one hang fire (pop then bang). After that I made sure tipped the cartridge up to ensure powder was near the primer. Only 5 rounds experimented with so it was inconclusive to me if the powder was position sensitive. Gave up on 4227 and switched to reddot for reduced loads.
YMMV

[Screwbolts]

4227 is a great powder in the 7.62x51R, it is listed in several of my older Lyman manuals. I rate it right up there with IMR SR4759, Re7 and others in usefulness with Cast in the 7.62x51R, I believe the late Frank Marshal also felt it to be a valuable powder for cast boolit shooting.

Ken

[RickinTN]

Tried using it in 223 for reduced loads. At 10g I experienced one hang fire (pop then bang). After that I made sure tipped the cartridge up to ensure powder was near the primer. Only 5 rounds experimented with so it was inconclusive to me if the powder was position sensitive. Gave up on 4227 and switched to reddot for reduced loads.
YMMV

I use IMR4227 quite a bit in 223 but at higher charges than 10 grains. I load 15.5 grains, as that is the charge that my Little Dandy powder rotor drops, with a Sierra 55 grain "blitz" bullet for excellent accuracy at 100 yards and further I'm sure. I was in need of a groundhog load that was quieter than a standard 223 load. The report is about the same as a standard 22 lr but the ballistics are far superior. I haven't chronographed this load but guesstimate it at about 2,600 fps in the 22" barrel I'm shooting it in, and yes it does quite the job on groundhogs. I've had no hangfires nor anything that would indicate inconsistencies. If I were looking for reduced loads with velocities in the teens then there are better powder choices but for this particular application it would be tough to beat.
Rick

[cold1]

If I were looking for reduced loads with velocities in the teens then there are better powder choices but for this particular application it would be tough to beat.
Rick

4227 was all I had at the time. Switched to red dot and got the speed down to 650FPS with a dead soft cast Bator boolit.

[Tar Heel]

Interesting resurrection of the thread. I myself finally purchased a 30-30 lever action after lusting for one for almost 50 years. I was literally looking to see what loads were getting posted on here after using the Lyman CBH#4 to load up some IMR-4227 under the Lee 170 GCFP bullet.

150052

[fourarmed]

The previous time 4759 was discontinued (by DuPont), 4227 was the powder generally recommended as a substitute.

[Larry Gibson]

4227 is my favorite powder for the 30-30 and the 7.62x39 with 100 - 125 gr jacketed bullets. I also find H4227 with a Dacron filler to be excellent under the RCBS 30-150-FN in the 30-30.

Larry Gibson

[Tenbender]

http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail.asp?CaliberID=51&Powder=IMR+4227&LoadID=7516

http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail.asp?CaliberID=51&Powder=IMR+4227&LoadID=7497

[Jackpine]

I have loaded 30-30 with H4227 starting back in the late 70,s in Contenders for handgun silhouette, and more recently (I bought ten pounds of it when Hodgdon discontinued it a few years back) a few thousand rounds with cast bullets for Cowboy long range competitions, in a 94 Winchester, shooting it out to 350 yards, with very good results. I like it because I have gotten very good accuracy and it measures so wonderfully.

I use a filler because I think I get a little better consistency and have never seen the need to go over 15 grains for bullets cast between 150 and 180 grains.

Jackpine

[Shiloh]

Been looking for data in the 30-30 with 4227 and found this thread.
17.5 gr. behind a 311041 sized at .310 gives 1640 fps. 35.6 Ex Spread, and 12.6 St. Dev. Handy Rifle. Accuracy limited by the horrendously bad trigger.
18.0 gr. behind the same boolit. gives 1665 fps. 41.2 Ex. Spread, and 14.0 St Dev. in a different rifle with a better trigger.

I was given some NOE 155 FP. I'll post Data in a few days.

Shiloh

[Outpost75]

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) on p.144 lists data for IMR4227 with both #311291 and #31141 accuracy load given as 16.5 grs., 1575 fps @ 26,500cup with #311291, max. 22 grs. 1959 fps @ 35,800 cup. They start at 17 grs. with #31141 for 1602 fps @ 23,200 cup. Max. 22 grs. for 1983 fps @ 34,800 cup. Velocities in 24" test barrel on Universal Receiver. I load 18 grs. in my. 30-30s.

[Win94ae]

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) on p.144 lists data for IMR4227 with both #311291 and #31141 accuracy load given as 16.5 grs., 1575 fps @ 26,500cup with #311291, max. 22 grs. 1959 fps @ 35,800 cup. They start at 17 grs. with #31141 for 1602 fps @ 23,200 cup. Max. 22 grs. for 1983 fps @ 34,800 cup. Velocities in 24" test barrel on Universal Receiver. I load 18 grs. in my. 30-30s.

That is very helpful, thank you!

[ebb]

I am trying to use up my IMR 4227 i have 30/30 cases and some speer 130 grain hot cores. Is there data that can work with these components????

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I've used 12 grains IMR4227 under the Lyman 311407 with great accuracy in a 30-30 Marlin. Also 20 plus/minus grains I4227 works very well under the 311332 in the 300 Savage and 308 Winchester. It has been used for modest loads in many calibers for a very long time, at least 1964/65 when I started reloading. I have used 5744 and IMR 4227 for similar purposes with cast bullets.

[DonHowe]

My High Wall with 14" twist barrel LOVES 14.5gr of IMR 4227 behind a breechseated 200gr Pope style plainbase bullet.
I have used 4227 in .30-06 and .303 CB loads.

[rintinglen]

I have loaded 17.5 grains with the excellent Lyman 311-466 boolit for very good accuracy at 50 yards. IIRC, I was getting about 1700 fps.

[Soundguy]

I understand where Lead Fred is coming from. It's a double edged sword. A double charge will do astonishing things to the gun on the one hand while on the other, it seems to be a great powder for the application and cost effective too. As much as I don't like small charges in a large case, it does work well and I have used it in a 303 Brit and I dare say I will be using it a lot more. I also recommend the use of Dacron as a powder positioner. It will at the very least do no harm.

It is crazy hard to double charge with imr 4227.. there are some pistol charges that are darned near compressed charges with it depending upon bullet you choose.

[ElPistolero]

I only make one load for that critter, ... gun inherited via very funny son/ex-wife situation, using 3031, but I have a buddy who uses a 150gr Lee (#C309-159-F) with anywhere from 16 to 22gr of 4227 with "OK" results. I think I'd rather go to a 170gr bullet with about the same load.

[PAndy]

4227 will be position sensitive, which may or may not matter in your situation, depending what you do and how you load the rifle. I think it smells weird so I use 4198.

[oley55]

4227 will be position sensitive, which may or may not matter in your situation, depending what you do and how you load the rifle. I think it smells weird so I use 4198.

Ain't that the truth? There is just something about the smell of burnt 4227 that is just plain different.