Patch Troubles

[james6600]

Switched from Goex 2f to old E 3f started at 60gr and went to 95gr in 5gr steps wet patch then dry between shots never had better than 8" group from rest at 50yds using older T/C Wonder Patches that measure .014". Some small patch pieces were smoldering and most I could never find. A couple groups were ok at 3-4" but 3rd shot would be a flier. I have never cleaned between shots until now, I would never clean until group opened and would hold 4-6" at 100yds but this year I had to restock most of my components and can't dial it in. By the way it's a Richland Arms 54 with a 1-48? twist and I tried both .530" and .535" RB's. My shoulder is a little tender too. I'm working on getting thicker pillow ticking material but these patches I found aren't burnt just shredded, until then any suggestions.

[Maven]

james6600, It looks like those old T/C patches suffered from dry rot along and maybe lube deterioration as well. As you say, a thicker patch will indeed help. Look for pillow ticking or something similar in 100% cotton that measures .018" or even .020" thick when compressed. Also, I've been using 1 part Ballistol : 6 parts water as a patch lube in all my BP long guns at the range and haven't really needed to swab or otherwise wipe the bore between shots during a 2 hr. [range] session. Btw, a spit patch works just as well and costs nothing. For hunting, and in cool/cold conditions, I'd stick to the .018" patch, but change to a grease lube (google Stumpy's Moose Snot, for one such lube). Hope this helps!

[fouronesix]

That is odd for sure. I'd never thought of deteriorated or rotted cotton patches but it sure is possible. Also, those patches look just like ones shot in a grossly undersized combination between patch thickness/RB diameter and bore diameter. Hard to say what is going on!

Since I buy bulk fabric and cut at the muzzle, I've haven't looked closely at T/C pre-cut patches made recently. The ones I still have from long ago are, for all intents and purposes, the same as ticking- tight cotton weave with a diagonal pattern.

The only other thing I can think of is-- if you haven't shot the rifle in a while may not hurt to drop a bore light down and look closely at the condition of the bore. Also, wouldn't hurt to run a tightly jagged patch down the bore and "feel" for anything amiss.

[james6600]

Thanks Mavan, I didn't think about rot but that makes sense. A local gun store has boxes of old stock patches sitting on the floor, so I dug through and bought some. I'm getting low on Ballistol too, so I'm trying to put enough stuff together to place an online order to offset shipping. I haven't tried lubing with Ballistol yet, and I made up some Emmert's lube, I'm wanting to try both just haven't had the time. If I buy pillow ticking at a fabric store locally what do I look for, I remember seeing some when I was helping the daughter with a 4H project (it was white with the blue stripes) but don't the stores measure weight per yard, how would I cross that to thickness?

[waksupi]

White and blue stripe it is. The TC stuff is just muslin, and doesn't have a high enough tread count.

[fouronesix]

I've never seen T/C patches that resemble muslin. Although the current company under S&W may? For certain, some of the various other companies who sell pre-cut patches occasionally offer thin patches that do resemble muslin. Muslin is easy to recognize as the warp and weft are uniformly perpendicular and the weave is usually of low density and has a low thread count.

Ballistol and water works well. In a pinch if you are close enough to an auto parts like NAPA you can ask them if they carry water soluble oil. Both types mixed with water make moose milk.

When you go to the fabric store take your mic or calipers. A tip! If you use a standard 1" mic with the small round jaws you will get a reading on the fabric with light pressure. If you take your flat jawed calipers you will get a reading on the fabric with light pressure. The two readings will be different for the same fabric. Just be aware and judge accordingly.

Pillow ticking is sold by the yard and is on bolts. Most ticking I've seen commonly comes with blue, red or tan colored stripes. But pillow ticking is not the only material that can work well for patching. The end of the bolts will have the fabric content- like 100% Cotton, etc. I use some other types besides ticking, as long as it is 100% Cotton and has a dense weave. Many of the better, tighter weaves will have a diagonal surface texture. Wash and dry the fabric a couple of times. It will soften up and be a lot easier to use.

[james6600]

Fouronsix these patches are old, an over and under weave kinda like a burlap bag with no air gaps in the weave, if I had to guess they are 80's vintage. The .530 ball I can start with my thumb and seems tight enough but I was unsure so when I finished with them I switched to .535 and those are ball starter only and I have to lean on the ram rod pretty good to push them home. This is an InvestArms gun and they claim to use chrome lined barrels today but mine is late 70's to early 80's vintage and from the way the machining looks and the way the muzzle is white all the way to the flats plus forward of the breach plug there has never been one speck of corrosion I would bet it is stainless. As far as bore condition the lands look like they have been honed after machining, the grooves are a little rough (the way stainless machines) and as far as running a patch down the barrel there is an ever so slight sometimes undetectable spot about 2/3 the way down that has been there as long as I remember. The patches I bought a year ago and they were fine last year but still very old when I bought them and the lube looks dark like mink lube so they are probably rotten.

[fouronesix]

With a chromed or stainless barrel- likely nothing happening in the bore to suddenly cause the erratic patch behavior. That off color lube in the patches is probably a signal of something happening- like rot or chemical deterioration. Could be either and there are certain types of bacteria that eat cotton. Just get some fresh, good patch material and give it another go. I'd think somewhere in the .015" patch thickness range along with a choice of both .530 and .535 RBs and you'll have it covered and will find out pretty quickly at the range.

[Maven]

james6600, fouronesix's advice is excellent and should be followed. As far as 100% cotton material is concerned, specifically pillow ticking, I have found that different bolts of the stuff have different thicknesses, at least at JoAnn Fabric where I shop. E.g., the blue striped ticking is usually .018" compressed, but the light green, light brown, and red striped material is thinner, .014" compressed. (The red striped ticking fits my trade gun perfectly: never a burn through or shredded patch.) Muslin, duck cloth, denim (lots of choice here), pocket drill can work too, but only if 100% cotton and thick enough (micrometer measure) to fit your gun's bore.

[james6600]

I will get some patch material this week and I think all will be fine. I have always used store bought supplies and never had a known problem and with the current conditions what few gun stores are left only stock black gun stuff. My sidelocks are all from when I was a kid and my friends and I were told moment of game accuracy was all to expect, we didn't know about different barrel fits, twist and so on, the people on this forum have taught me differently. I will let you know the results. Thanks, James

[johnson1942]

maven is right on, thick tight weave cotton and if you can find it linen. i have table cloth linen from years ago and it is so tough you can go out and pick up the patches and relube them and reuse them if you wanted. i never did but they were in perfect shape. what ever you use you may want to do what i do for my .45 roundball gun i have now. i use precut pillow ticking in it but i lube each patch completely through with lee alox or rooster paper patch lube. i let them dry a day or two and when i use them i spit wet them just a little. with that lube the patch isnt even touched. good luck and have fun.