HM Pope Schutzen bullet

[bsaride]

Just picked up on epay:

Lyman 308403

30 caliber, multi-diameter capered schutzen type bullet. Baseband near 309-310. reverse capered at the base to fit well into case mouth. The manufacturer looks like ACME.

So what does the "capered" mean?
Is this a heeled bullet that should fit the case like a 22LR?

[floodgate]

bsaride:

Here is the full description of #308403 (later called #311403, but with no real change other than cherry wear/replacement, where dimensional and shape changes do creep in), from the 1927 Ideal Handbook No. 28 which introduced it:

"Bullet designed by Mr. Harry Pope for extrame accuracy in competitive shooting in the .30 Springfield rifle. Should be used as cast and not resized....Diameter of first four bands from point .301" [bore riders], fifth band .303", sixth band .305" [to fit tapered leede], last band .315". Bullet seated in [un-resized, as-fired] case with fingers so mouth of case extends only half-way up base band....This bullet gives better accuracy up to 200 yards than any combination we know of in the Springfield, but owing to the bullet being seated so lightly in the case, it is not suitable for handling except on the target range." (Remarks in brackets are my additions.)

Probably this would work as advertised only in a well-maintained original pre-WWII Springfield, and with the mould cut with the fresh, original cherry. If your mould is marked "IDEAL" rather than "LYMAN" (pre-late 1970's) and is in good shape, and if you've got an '03 or '03A1 with fine original chamber and bore, the combination MIGHT just work as Pope designed it. Let us know.

floodgate

[DonH]

From the decrription given this is a tapered bulet for use in an adaptation of the schuetzen breech-seating method of loading modified for use in a bolt action rifle . In schuetzen-type single shot rifle shooting, a tapered bullet is inserted directly into the breech end of the barrel, fully engaging the rifling. The description above modifies the schuetzen method by using the case to seat the forward portiion of the bullet into the throat with the base end of the bullet being supported, but not held, by the case mouth. A round so assembled and chambered would if extracted un-fired leave the bullet in the throat, most likely dumping powder in the chamber and action.
Bases on my own experience loading and shooting both single shot and bolt action rifles with lead bullets, the above described bullet would be of little usefullness aside from the loading method described by the mould maker.

[joeb33050]

This is a wonderful bullet, load it just as described, never size it. It works in all 30 caliber rifles I've tried it in. In 30/30 and 30/06 with 7-10 grains of Unique it will shoot the center out of a 100 yard target on a quiet day. If you wnt to sell the mold, let me know.
joe b.

[joeb33050]

Here's the article from the book:(Can you tell that I love this bullet?)
THE LYMAN-POPE 308403



This bullet was originally the Lyman 308403, and later the number was changed to 311403. According to Rudi Prusok, the ASSRA archivist, this bullet was first listed in the Ideal/Lyman handbook in 1927, and was listed until 1957-when the number was changed to 311403.



From the 1927 Ideal Hand Book:
“308403. Bullet designed by Mr. Harry Pope for extreme accuracy in competitive shooting in the .30 Springfield rifle. Should be used as cast and not resized. Diameter of first four bands from point .301”, fifth band .303, sixth band .305”, last band .315”. Bullet seated in case with fingers so mouth of case extends only half way up base band. Powder charge 12 to 15 grains Dupont No. 80 powder. This bullet gives better accuracy up to 200 yards than any combination we know of in the Springfield, but owing to the bullet being seated so lightly in the case, it is not suitable for handling except on the target range.”





Loring Hall has shot these bullets offhand very effectively in the Winter League matches at the Old Colony Sportsman’s Association in Pembroke MA for many years, in one of his 30/06 Hammerli Team Rifles.
I’ve borrowed a mold for this bullet several times from Pete Ziko, a member at Old Colony, and cast a thousand or so bullets each time. Pete absolutely refused to part with the mold. These bullets, at lower velocities, have shot accurately in a number of 30 caliber rifles that I’ve owned.
Recently I’ve borrowed molds from John Greene, to cast some additional bullets. John made the mold I borrowed from him, a very nice piece of work. He has the cherry and can supply molds.



The trick to this bullet is that the base band is tapered smaller at the rear-larger at the front; and the dimensions are made so that the bullet slips into a fired 30 caliber case and wedges itself to a stop about half way up the base band. To reload: deprime and reprime, throw a charge of powder and seat the bullet with your fingers. No sizing of the cartridge case or bullet is required. I find that chamfering the inside of the case mouth helps in seating the bullet..

Here are some typical 100 yard groups with the 308403 with Darr lube, Winchester M54 30 WCF, 30X STS, 6.8/Unique, Dacron wad, WLP primer.