Pretty sure this has been aksed before . . . . but

[papagee]

I am in the process of getting my first reloading setup (Dillon 650). As I have poured my own lead fishing lures for years, it seems a natural fit to do boolits now also. I'm sure this has been asked and answered before . . . but, after three hours of reading I am just going to ask;

Is there any reason to buy more than a Lee 4-20 lead pot?

The RCBS and others are in the $400+ range, the Lee with a lead thermometer is +/- $100.
My wife & I shoot 9mm, my daughter and I shoot 40s, these are the two i will start with for now.

It has been an enjoyable, and educational 3 hours.

[Bzcraig]

Many, including myself, use the Lee and happily so. For the exact reason you cite, despairity of price, the Lee is a great value. It does have adjustable heat range but it is by no means a thermostat. Spend $40 and buy a good high temp thermometer.

[dilly]

I haven't owned a Lee pot and won't say it's bad. I have owned Lee products that were complete junk, however. I chose to pony up for the RCBS at the recommendation of others because I didn't want to have any bad experiences with 20 pounds of dripping lead. Again I have nothing to say about the Lee pot, but I am very pleased with the RCBS.

However, I have seen many stories of people who had a Lee and got sick of it and upgraded, but very few stories of people who aren't content with the RCBS.
I apologize if I come across as one of those people who spend a lot of money and try to justify it in my advice to others. I hope you are pleased with whatever product you choose.

[avogunner]

I've cast thousands of boolits in the past 30 years and have only had one pot, a Lee production pot IV. Sure, I'd love to upgrade someday to a Lyman or RCBS and I promised myself I would when this one quits. I'm still waiting......

[rodok]

I also did sinker casting before I did bullet casting, more or less the same thing just making smaller items. I used the lee pots for sinkers (4 of them), and they work just fine on bullets. The only problem I ran into is I melted all my sinkers to make bullets!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Many, including myself, use the Lee and happily so. For the exact reason you cite, despairity of price, the Lee is a great value. It does have adjustable heat range but it is by no means a thermostat. Spend $40 and buy a good high temp thermometer.
YES, all of the above.
keep it clean and the dripping from the spout will be minimal or nonexistant. My Lee pot is 3 years old, I started getting some dripping, I drained and cleaned the pot and lapped the spout and most of all I quit using a wooden/charred stick on the bottom of the pot. I still use it on the sides, but now use a stainless steel scraper on the bottom. It seems that wood char on the bottom tends to migrate to the spout instead of float to the top.
Good Luck,
Jon

[NineInchNails]

Check out this Lyman pot (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/267665/lyman-mag-25-digital-melting-furnace-110-volt). This page says "Coming Soon".

Notice that digital control panel. That looks just like a PID controller to me. It is possible that it may be just a digital on/off thermostat, but I would hope that Lyman wouldn't cheap out like that.

If I wanted a turn key unit then I'd be tempted to go with the $259.99 Lyman when it comes out IF it is in fact PID controlled. If you read about 'PID Controllers' you'll find that you can plug just about anything into it and the PID will make that pot hold any temp you set with a high degree of accuracy. Basically a PID controller is a smart thermostat so to speak.

You can also use a Lee or ANY other brand of pot on a PID controller. Check out the sticky threads in this Casting Equipment section. You can buy the components and build your own (there's a link in my signature for the one I built, but there are many other PID topics too). You can buy kits from Frozone (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?116-Frozone) which comes with everything to assemble your own.

A thermometer will only tell you what the temp is. From what I understand you can watch a thermometer as your pot rises. When the temp gets near the desired temp you would have to fiddle with the setting. Watch the temp stabilize for a while then the temp begins to drop below your desired temp. Now you have to fiddle with the setting again. Basically you may find that your temp will bounce well above and well below your desired temp something like what's shown in the graph below. I have found that my PID maintains +/- 1F in my experience (with other applications). I haven't used it on my Lee pot yet, but I plan to soon.

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag142/boolits/PID%20Controller/PIDTempGraph_zps9ff14824.jpg (http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/boolits/media/PID%20Controller/PIDTempGraph_zps9ff14824.jpg.html)

I just thought I'd throw that out there. The PID on the Lyman is the main advantage I can see.

[bangerjim]

Lee 4-20 is a good pot! I use 2 of them with no problems......including dripping. Others are extremely overpriced for just melting lead.

It is a nice pot and you will not have to mortgage the house to buy one. If you decide in the future to change.....it's always nice to have a 2nd pot for other alloys!

bangerjim

[shadowcaster]

Lee 4-20 is a good pot! I use 2 of them with no problems......including dripping. Others are extremely overpriced for just melting lead.

It is a nice pot and you will not have to mortgage the house to buy one. If you decide in the future to change.....it's always nice to have a 2nd pot for other alloys!

bangerjim

Well said...

I am very satisfied with my Lee pro 4-20. In fact I run 2 of them side by side without a hitch or a drip. I think that most of the trouble that people have with the Lee pots is.. operator trouble. They are well worth the money spent and will stick with you through many years of casting.

Definitely get a high temp casting thermometer.

Shad

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Check out this Lyman pot (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/267665/lyman-mag-25-digital-melting-furnace-110-volt). This page says "Coming Soon".



it's been "coming soon" since last March, I gave up and got a Pro Melt.

[1Shirt]

Have an RCBS and a Lee, and a hotplate. All get used. Lees work fine, just drip a bit, as in my experience do all bottom pores on occaision.
1Shirt!

[shoot-n-lead]

You can't beat the Lee for the value...not the best, but it can be used for years.

[MtGun44]

Thermometer is unnecessary overkill. I cast for decades without one, use it occasionally
for fun, but never really need it. A techno-crutch of limited value, IMO.

Bill

[257]

i started with a lee then a lyman, then a seaco now i have a magma master caster there is noyhing wrong with a lee i probly cast 100,000 with it and it still works you can fix the drip on most of the pots quite simply

[btroj]

A Lee will do fine.

Am I the only one who gets a chill when someone says a Dillon 650 will be their first reloading set up? Scares me, a progressive is not a learning tool.

[Springfield]

The LEE will melt lead and keep it hot. Without a thermometer you won't really know HOW hot, and with most bullets this is fine. It is a bit small if you tend to cast lots of bullets at a time(over 300 bullets) or cast larger bullets(over 350 grains). It only has 800 watts and with larger amounts of lead going through it you can outrun the pot and have to stop. Personally I HATE this, so I bought an RCBS, which was better as it holds an honest 22 lbs whereas the LEE is more like 17, and it seems to have a few more watts. I eventually bought a Magma and I couldn't outrun that pot if I tried (and i have tried!) The RCBS also holds a more even temp as the thermostat runs off the pot temp where the LEE runs off temp in the tower NEXT to the pot, causing larger swings in temp, causing more freeze-ups. I like to encourage people to buy the LEE first, that way they will appreciate the RCBS and Magma more! I likes teh LEE ok until i bought the RCBS, and it was OK until I bought the Magma. Kinda thing where you don't know what you are missing until you try it. Just ask guys here, most thought their LEE moulds were fine until they got ahold of a Mihec or BRP or NOE. Good quality stuff is just nicer to use. Not necessary, just much nicer.

[Garyshome]

I need 2 pots to keep casting while the other is warming up again. Saves a lot of time, only minimal slow down when lead gets low. And I would not cast without a thermometer, for the cost it kind of silly not to have one.

[Petrol & Powder]

I started casting over a campfire with an iron pot, just to see if I could do it. The answer was yes it can be done but why would you want to ? Then I moved to Coleman gas stove and the same iron pot. When I got serious about casting I looked at the options for a bottom pour electric pot and picked the Lee based on price. The RCBS is clearly a great pot but I couldn't justify the expense. So far I've been entirely happy with the Lee. The Lee melts and pours lead; that's about all I need it to do. If the Lee dies I'll consider moving to a Lyman or RCBS but from what I've heard, it may be a long time before the Lee dies.

[6bg6ga]

Had a Lee and won't repeat that again. Bought a Mark IV Ballisti-Cast and haven't looked back.

[jmort]

"Am I the only one who gets a chill when someone says a Dillon 650 will be their first reloading set up? Scares me, a progressive is not a learning tool."

No. Would not have been a good choice for me, but for some I'm sure it would work. For the average person starting with a single stage or even a turret would be best. Everyone should have a single stage press, even if they step-up to 1050.

[Mk42gunner]

Lee 4-20 is a good pot! I use 2 of them with no problems......including dripping. Others are extremely overpriced for just melting lead.

It is a nice pot and you will not have to mortgage the house to buy one. If you decide in the future to change.....it's always nice to have a 2nd pot for other alloys!

bangerjim


Thermometer is unnecessary overkill. I cast for decades without one, use it occasionally
for fun, but never really need it. A techno-crutch of limited value, IMO.

Bill

These two quotes sum it up pretty well, in my opinion.

I started with a cast iron pot over a Coleman stove. It was uncomfortably hot, even wearing gloves.

I couldn't justify the cost of an RCBS Promelt, so I bought a brand new Lee 4-20. Wow, I could now cast in comfort. It dripped a lttle, but no deluges.

I stumbled across a Promelt at an estate sale for $80.00, now my Lee is the back up, and only used for casting snagging sinkers.

I did buy a thermometer, I really don't think it is necessary for 90% of the boolit casters, same with a hardness tester.

Robert

[6bg6ga]

The Dillon XL650 for a first press isn't a good idea in my mind. Like mentioned in a prior post starting with a single stage press is the way to go.

[Echo]

A Lee will do fine.

Am I the only one who gets a chill when someone says a Dillon 650 will be their first reloading set up? Scares me, a progressive is not a learning tool.

A big Plus One! OP should get a single-stage (RCBS RC from eBay, or some such) and use it for at least a year, loading hundreds, if not thousands, of cartridges, so they more fully understand the principles, plusses, and minuses, or metallic cartridge reloading. I have spoken...

[RoGrrr]

papagee
Welcome to our little forum/man-cave/or whatever you'd like to call it. Ask as many questions as you want to ask, either on the board or by PM. The only stupid question is the one you're too embarrassed to ask.

I have a 650 and love it. It was my first metallic progressive, but I've loaded many a shotshell on a TEXAN.
While I tend to agree about a newbie starting on a progressive, his choice of a 650 is far better than starting on, say, a 550 ! Even when I was starting to load on a single stage press, I won't admit HOW MANY shells got a projectile stuffed into them WITH NO POWDER. Murphy's pet named "DISTRACTION", you know....
The 550 requires you to advance the turret.
I'd much rather have my old shells with no powder then a newly loaded one with a DOUBLE CHARGE ! Just sayin'.
I would think that papagee will pick up the fully automatic 650 fairly quickly. My hat's off to you and good luck, papagee. Keep us in the loop.

By the way, get your wife and daughter involved in loading. They need to know and understand what we're doing/suffering FOR THEM.



The Dillon XL650 for a first press isn't a good idea in my mind. Like mentioned in a prior post starting with a single stage press is the way to go.

[Petrol & Powder]

I would recommend a single stage press to anyone starting out and it's a tool you'll keep forever. Not paying attention is a totally different matter. Failure to pay attention is just irresponsible, the type of press is an irrelevant to that matter.

[6bg6ga]

papagee
Welcome to our little forum/man-cave/or whatever you'd like to call it. Ask as many questions as you want to ask, either on the board or by PM. The only stupid question is the one you're too embarrassed to ask.

I have a 650 and love it. It was my first metallic progressive, but I've loaded many a shotshell on a TEXAN.
While I tend to agree about a newbie starting on a progressive, his choice of a 650 is far better than starting on, say, a 550 ! Even when I was starting to load on a single stage press, I won't admit HOW MANY shells got a projectile stuffed into them WITH NO POWDER. Murphy's pet named "DISTRACTION", you know....
The 550 requires you to advance the turret.
I'd much rather have my old shells with no powder then a newly loaded one with a DOUBLE CHARGE ! Just sayin'.
I would think that papagee will pick up the fully automatic 650 fairly quickly. My hat's off to you and good luck, papagee. Keep us in the loop.

By the way, get your wife and daughter involved in loading. They need to know and understand what we're doing/suffering FOR THEM.


I'll have to disagree. A 550 is far more forgiving than a 650 is. With a 550 you can check your progress before you manually progress to the next stage. The main reason I keep the Lyman T-Mag turret press is for taking care of the mistakes that can happen with the 650 when your setting up. The 650 however is capable of more rounds per hour than the 550 but still its easy to make mistakes with ANY progressive even after loading for many years.

[RoGrrr]

6bg
I did a lot of research before I bought my first progressive (Gawd, I HATE that liberal word). My short list choice was between the 550 and 650. I recalled the many problems my clay target shooting friends had with their new progressives so I had some idea what to look for/expect in a metallic machine. I finally decided on the 650 bcuz of the auto-index (I had that on my TEXAN shotshell loaders so I was educated on the feature).
So far, I've never loaded on a 550 but it's easy enough to check everything on the 650. Plus, having the powder check at station 3 (not that it's a necessity bcuz of the auto-index) it tells you if a shell is empty or double-charged.
You talk about setting up, and it's just that - setting up. Do one case at a time to adjust all your settings and once that's done, turn it on and let the case feeder dump the cases in and you're off to the races. While I never try to set speed records, I run consistent loads at a healthy speed.
And once you have each caliber set up (I also recommend a complete set of tools for each caliber, INCLUDING the powder measure on each tool head 'Spensive/extravagant but makes it a lot easier/safer to set up/change calibers), when you change to that other caliber, you're ready to go. Put in the tool head, change the primer feed and shell plate and GO ! Nothing to check if you have a dedicated powder measure for that tool head. Pass GO and collect as many loaded rounds as you have time to load.
Granted, papagee is biting off a big bite to chew but I doubt he will ever look back and lament his decision. And I do appreciate your hesitation to see him pull the trigger on the 650.
If I were him, I would start with about 10 empty cases and with the primer cam removed (that black thing on the front vertical support in front of the shell plate) and load one round at a time to learn/understand what each station is supposed to do. Pull the primer feed lever (that silver lever between the primer post and feed mechanism) to advance only one primer, advance a shell out of the sizing station and press a new primer into the case. Pull the handle to fill the case with powder and advance to the next station. Look into the case to assure there is powder. Pull handle and advance. Insert boolit and pull. Pull one more time and eject your first reloaded BOOLIT !
I'd also opt for Dillon's DVD teaching you how to load on their stellar machine.

I also highly recommend the automatic case feeder. It makes things a lot easier, not to mention speeding things up a bunch.

[dikman]

Bit off track here, guys, the OP was actually asking about melting lead, not re-loading cartridges. I just bought an RCBS Pro-Melt. Not cheap, as I had to buy the export version (dearer) + shipping ($80 or so) but I have absolutely no regrets, it melts quick and works very well. Having said that, I'm sure I would have been very happy with the Lee, it was just that after many unsuccessful days chasing both of these down to find someone who actually had both in stock was somewhat unexpected. So I took it as an omen and plumped for the dearer one.

Of course, nothing's perfect (!) so I made a top cover for the pot, an extractor fan that clips to the rear and a shelf to rest the molds on while pouring (I found the simple support rod they use unsatisfactory). But then, I like modding things......

[whelenshooter]

I ladle dip so I bought a Lee Magnum (actually my wife bought it at my suggestion for Christmas one year). Before that I cast out of a cast iron pot and a turkey fryer burner. I really like the Lee. Most of my equipment is Lee. Someone earlier said that folks think their Lee stuff is fine till they use something else. That's probably true.

I've driven Fords most of my life but have occasionally driven my grandfather's Lincoln. Boy it was nice, power, ride, etc. But I could buy several Fords for what the Lincoln cost and the Ford's last a long time.

[Dave C.]

After all is said and done, all brands of pots will cast the same quality boolits.
Buy what makes you happy and fits your budget.

Dave C.

Good health and good shooting.

[harley6699]

Here are my two cents.. I have had Lee pots for 30 years.. I bought and wore my first Lee bollom pot and bought another.. I like the other pots as do others here.. I have not be able to justify the cost.. also I only have one eye and it was getting more difficult for me to align the mold to the spout so one of the members here showed me how to add a Lyman mold guide to my Lee pot and now I great results.. I don't think I could do the same with the more expensive ones.. I say buy the one that best works for your situation.. it is like buying a press.. I run a Dillon and other run Lee, RCBS, etc.. so think about your needs..