Cast Boolits & .308 Velocities??

[VTDW]

I got my mold from Ranch Dog a couple of weeks back and am wondering about my alloy mix. I have been using 50/50 WW-Lino for all my hunting boolits in my .444s and RH .44Mag. I wonder if I need to boost the lino content for the velocities the .308MX will be speeding this boolit along? I tried just WW but didn't achieve accuracy at higher velocities. A good friend advised that 50/50 WW/Lino water quenched should do the trick as that kicks up the Bnh from 23 to over 30. What say ye for the alloy mix for cast boolits and .308 velocities?

I should have paid attention while I didn't plan on having a .308 so there are many posts about my question on this forum but a search didn't work for me. I am an old welder and have breathed too many fumes over the years so pleas be patient with me.:-D

Tnx folks,

Dave

[leftiye]

If you heat treat, you can get those hardnesses without a "higher grade"alloy. Depending what you mean by "308 velocities" that is. You'll have trouble with 2600 fps and cast and alloy alone won't fix it. Some can do it, I can't. I don't try. I go to a bigger bore for more power. Bigger boolits hit harder anyway. If you're talking hunting that is (depends on what you want to shoot at). Best accuracy happens at lower velocities with almost all loads/boolits, even the ones that can still shoot straight at faster velocities.

[jhalcott]

Another question is WHY do you NEED the high velocity! A dead deer is the same animal if shot 3 to 400 fps slower. I do NOT get any expansion when I use alloys like linotype. It's like shooting FMJ's at the animal. Sure, I can get away with lino or harder when plinking or varmint hunting. I don't care how far they run after the shot! In some areas I hunt ,a 100+ yard run could result in another "hunter" gutting MY deer. I use an alloy like Lyman #2 or softer (13 to 16 bhn) for a lot of my hunting.I can get 2100 fps with a 180 grain gas checked bullet in the 30-06. Accuracy is about 1 inch at 100 yards. This will do for deer to well over 150 yards in MY hands!

[Lloyd Smale]

ive shot 120s out of the 3030 at 2600 (max) out of my tc carbine. I use a gas checked bullet cast out of 5050 ww/lyno sized to 310 and lubed in the star and then i tumble lube them. I dont get leading like that but if you go any faster accuracy in that gun falls apart. I dont know how well theyd do on game though as the just vaporize when hitting a rock or anything hard. If i was going to try that load on a deer id probably back it off 200 fps. if you go harder and faster your going to run into even more problems with bullets comming apart. If your going to use 150-170 grain bullets id leave the alloy as is and not heat treat and keep it to about 2000 fps.

[VTDW]

Thanks guys. This .308 MX is a brand new offering from Marlin. The rifle is superbly accurate with the factory ammo - 165 gr Hornady LeverEvolution. I love my big bores but this rifle called just my name. As far as needing the velocity I don't but I shoot heavy doses in my big bores and velocites in the rifles are just at 2200 fps so not max loads. I am just searching around to see what the experienced folks think about higher velocities in this caliber. I believe the Hornady ammo says 2600 fps out of the box. I would love to achieve something sort of close to that with cast boolits if possible without leading. I have cast a hundred or so of the Ranch Dog .311 and am waiting on BuckShot to send me a sizing die. The boolits will be just shy of 160 gr w/GC & lube. If this cannot be done...oh well...I will keep working up loads for jacketed bullets. Like you folks, I love experimenting.:drinks:

Thanks again,

Dave

p.s. BassAckward's thread - My Secret to HV Cast is so over my head it makes my head hurt. :)

[Larry Gibson]

VTDW

If your Marlin has a 10" twist barrel your best accuracy will be in the 1800-1900 fps range. If it is a 12" twist then you can look at 2100-2200 fps for the best top end accuracy. Harder bullets will help a little but not really that much. The bullet must have a good fit to the throat of the rifle.

If you want to hunt with a cast bullet then I'd suggest a soft malleable alloy. I've come to prefer "magnum" shot (3-5% antimony - lead) alloy. It has no tin so when WQ'd from the mould the bullets are hard 20+ BHN but are still malleable and expand well. When my 311041 is cast of this alloy (177 gr with GC and Javelina lube) I push it to 2000-2100 fps out of a M94 30-30 or my own cast bullet cartridge. (also works well in other .30s up through '06). Accuarcy is usually 2 moa or so for the first 5 shots out of cold CLEAN barrels. A second 5 shots out of the fouled barrel will produce 4+ moa groups. The bullet expands quite nice in deer out to 150 yards and I figure if I've not got the deer in the first 5 shots I might as well go home, clean the rifle and rethink my marksmanship as the load has nothing to do with it.

Larry Gibson

[MT Chambers]

I've tried alot of cast bullets and alot of loads in the .308 and my accuracy is best at 1600fps to 1800fps. max....any one of a about six moulds i use at around 180grs. and 19.5grs. of 4759 in the 1-12 twist barrel...does the trick! Oh, another note...these bullets are cast from pure Lino or pure Mono and very are hard.

[jtaylor1960]

I have a 308MX and recently used some fired brass and a few 170gr cast bullets to make a dummy round to see how it would fit.I found that you don't have much room to play with as far as overall length.The bullet I tried was the old Lyman round nose.It must be seated with the base of the bullet below the neck of the case to allow it to function through the action.All in all I think you would be better off with a 30/30 for cast bullets.

[waksupi]

I have a Schmidt Rubin K11 in .308. No idea what the twist rate is on it, but I was getting 1.5" range groups with a Lee 170 gr. bullet. Velocity was 2450 fps.

Checked my notes. Velocity was 2350 fps, not 2450.

[VTDW]

I appreciate all the great replies. Now I have some information and can proceed with load development with a bit more knowledge. I think there are some nuggets in those replies.

Dave

[Bret4207]

Dave, have you run any factory stuff across the chrono? I'm still betting 2600fps is advertising hype. Be nice to be proven wrong.

[VTDW]

Brett,

Here is some data, all with factory ammo:
Dave

Big Medicine
Well I ran 5 shots over the chrono while trying to shoot a PM target. Here it is. Temp was 78 degrees

2606
2605
2608
2609
2612
Average 2608
ES 7.6 fps
SD 3.1

VTDW
Here is some data from the Shooting Chrony Beta: (I haven't measured again since firelapping.)
2537
2471
2496
2455
2466
2532
2451
2442
2532
2435

Low - 2435
High - 2537
Avg - 2492
ES - 101.6
SD - 39.57

75 degrees/calm/overcast

Duckbill

I chronied 16 shots with the Leverevolution:

Avg velocity 2565
ES - 48
High - 2578
Low - 2530

[Bret4207]

Well, it would be nice to know the particulars of screen distance and corrected velocity, etc. I'd still have to say they've come close to hitting the mark. Big Medicines rifle seems a bit faster than the others. Nice to see something close to factory claims, if not meeting those claims. Too bad we don't see more of it.

[Ricochet]

Corrected velocities have a fudge factor built in based on an assumed ballistic coefficient. I'd rather see the instrumental velocities, along with the distance if it's more than 10-15 feet, and would also like to know the temperature.

[VTDW]

Thanks for all the replies folks. I copied and pasted them into a document to save for reference and cogitation. :) I really do appreciate the knowledge shared so willingly on this site.

Dave