Pre-64

[Ivantherussian03]

I am curious. What happened in 1964 to gun manufacturers? My grandfather told me to buy rifles made pior to 1964, but I am wondering why now.:roll:

[NVcurmudgeon]

Ivan, your grandfather may have been refering to the major revising of the Model 70 Winchester in the year 1964. They eliminated controlled feed, floated the barrel with huge gaps that collected junk, and introduced stamped checkering. There may have been other crimes committed in the name of economy but I have forgotten. Actually the rot began in 1963, but they didn't brag about it, just went from English style recoil pads to crummy shotgun style ventilated pads and reduced the areas of checkering.
After about tem years of Econo-Winchesters they began improving them and turned out some pretty nice rifles. I will always believe that Winchester shot themself in the foot with the 1964 Model 70 and they never recovered.

[dubber123]

I believe the same applied to the Mod. 94 Winchesters. Lots of stamped internal parts, looser tolerances etc. You could still get a good shooter, but they certainly weren't the same gun.

[BudRow]

Just a month ago I had gifted to me a "new in the box" 94 Win. (unfired) that was made in 1973. The trigger on that thing was so lose and sloppy that it reminded me of when I six years old. You know when you're getting your adult teeth and your baby teeth are just dwindling from that last piece of gum? Well the trigger on this gun is like that. Do you think if I pull the trigger out and put it under my pillow the gun fairy will come with a proper fitting one?

[dubber123]

Just a month ago I had gifted to me a "new in the box" 94 Win. (unfired) that was made in 1973. The trigger on that thing was so lose and sloppy that it reminded me of when I six years old. You know when you're getting your adult teeth and your baby teeth are just dwindling from that last piece of gum? Well the trigger on this gun is like that. Do you think if I pull the trigger out and put it under my pillow the gun fairy will come with a proper fitting one?

Nope, but at the prices Winchester levers are going for, someone would probably give you a grand for it!:roll:

[monadnock#5]

From what I've read on the subject, the tolerances used in pre 64 Winchesters were so far out of whack, that they required a true gunsmith to fit, finish and assemble the parts. Essentially, what you purchased was an honest to goodness semi custom made gun. In 64, Winchester went to the Deming/Japanese model, and tightened the tolerances to the point that a green kid out of high school, after 10 minutes of intensive training could do the assembly and create a finished product.

Winchester was way ahead of the curve when it went with the new paradigm. Those American industries that still survive have all followed suit.

Winchester's real sin was in going with just the one line. If they had kept the old line going, and made both an affordable line, and a semi-custom line, they might have put themselves in the position of making everyone happy.

[HollandNut]

Actually , in the background , it was a matter of bean counters running a company .. Wordsmiths thru the years have made a Pre64 M70 worth a small fortune ..
This may sound sacriligeous , but with the precision of CNC machines today , there is no way that ( given proper programming in the machine ) any Pre 64 is "better"

[dubber123]

Actually , in the background , it was a matter of bean counters running a company .. Wordsmiths thru the years have made a Pre64 M70 worth a small fortune ..
This may sound sacriligeous , but with the precision of CNC machines today , there is no way that ( given proper programming in the machine ) any Pre 64 is "better"

In many ways I agree, and on the whole, the new CNC guns may have better tolerances, but alot still depends on the guy setting up the machine, and whether he gives a damn. I have gotten quite a few lemons in the last 10 years, that I know would have gotten an employee fired years ago. A certain degree of ineptitude seems to be acceptable today.

[Ricochet]

If they had changed the model numbers of the Model 70 and Model 94, or at least that of the M70, when they went to the post '64 models, they'd've avoided much of the controversy IMO. The post '64 M70 is clearly a different action, though it shares similarities with the pre '64. Remington's M700 is more similar to the post '64 than the pre, but never caught the flak that Winchester did when they changed the rifle so much but passed it off as the same model because of the valuable M70 "brand."