Hunting Velocity and Cast Boolits

[abearir]

Long time lurker, first post.

Since clip-ons are getting REAL hard to come by in my area, I want to stretch what I have as best I can. I have about 300lbs of smelted WW and about 500lbs of pure +-.

I'd like to roll my own this big game hunting season but don't have much time to test extensively. I'd like to load .30-40 and .30-30.

I have Lee 150FP, 170FP, 180R and 200R molds. Lube can be either Alox or a homebrew NRA style pan lube. I size .309 and gas check. I have a couple hundred 150's and 180's cast ready to go with a 70/30 alloy.

Anyone run 50-50 WW and Pb with a smidgin of tin solder at 1900+ fps with any of these? If so what did/how was the performance and leading with your gun?

I've tested with 70/30 WW to Pb water dropped up to about 1800fps and accuracy was pretty good. I'd like to see a bit more expansion. My recovered slugs shed a bit (30-40%) in weight shot into dry phonebooks at 10 yards. They didn't mushroom but more like shed fine fragments, almost like sand.

[Digital Dan]

I use a 25# pot and mix 20# of alloy. 8 oz tin, the balance is 50/50 WW/PB. .309 sized with Alox lube. Haven't gone any faster than about 1900 fps. No leading in the .30-30s, and 1-1.5" accuracy for 5 shots at 50 yards. Lyman 311041, gas checked. I intend to drop the WW portion to about 1/3 on the next batch. No quenching. BHN is about 10-11 as best I can measure.

[MarkP]

You should be fine with what you have; Try soaking your phone books in water for a few hours; I use a plastic storage tub, after soaking duct tape together and test. I used to soak over night.

[Maineboy]

This is a Lee 405 fp cast 50/50 ww/pure pb shot into a series of water filled milk jugs from my Marlin 45-70 at 1625 fps. It does lead the barrel a bit and I don't think I'd push this alloy much faster unless I wanted the boolit to start coming apart. I've never recovered one from a deer as they just pass through.

[abearir]

This is a Lee 405 fp cast 50/50 ww/pure pb shot into a series of water filled milk jugs from my Marlin 45-70 at 1625 fps. It does lead the barrel a bit and I don't think I'd push this alloy much faster unless I wanted the boolit to start coming apart. I've never recovered one from a deer as they just pass through.

Now thats the terminal performance I'm looking for in a hunting boolit. Thank you.

As far as leading goes, I do expect to see some, but with maybe 20 rounds a year of that alloy for hunting, I can live with it. I had a small bit with the 70/30 mix but 4-5 kroil patches pretty much took care of it. I think I'll compromise at an alloy of 60/40 with a splash of tin, water drop, and drive them at 1900fps and see what happens.

[EMC45]

This is a Lee 405 fp cast 50/50 ww/pure pb shot into a series of water filled milk jugs from my Marlin 45-70 at 1625 fps. It does lead the barrel a bit and I don't think I'd push this alloy much faster unless I wanted the boolit to start coming apart. I've never recovered one from a deer as they just pass through.

Use the same bullet with 14.5-15gr. Unique. Killed 3 deer with it and they were all in and out holes. No bullet recovery. Never shot them over the chronograph, but I know they kill.

[Larry Gibson]

Been using cast bullets on game for 45+ years. I push my .30/.31/8mm with 9.5 - 10" twist barrels to 1950 -2000 fps and my .30/.35/375 with 12 & 14" twists to 2150 - 2250 fps for hunting. That gives excellent expansion across the 200 - 250 yard max effective range I use.

I add 2% tin to my COWWs and then add lead at 50/50. I AC the hunting bullets and let age a minimum 7 - 10 days before doing anything to them. For .30 cals I size .311 or as cast if smaller. I use CO GCs and lube with a soft NRA formula lube or preferably Lar's 2500+. I use as slow a burning powder that gives consistent ignition, the desired velocity and as close to 100% load density as possible. I develop the load using 7 - 8 shot groups and clean the barrel between groups. Fouling/leading builds up and accuracy goes from 2 - 2.5 moa or beter to 4 -5 moa. Besides, if I've not got the game in the first 7 shots I might as well go home and take up badmitten...

For practice bullets I WQ them, age minimum 48 hours and load to 1850 -1950 fps usually over a medium burning powder + a dacron filler or over the hunting load. These can be shot all day long w/o cleaning the barrel.

Larry Gibson

[sixshot]

Larry's combo is as close to perfect as you're going to get with cast bullets. A little bit of leading is expected but very minor when hunting big game.

Dick

[jhalcott]

Those DRY books are a tough medium for any bullets! I always shoot wet pack (soaked phone books or newspaper stacks) at the ranges I expect to hit game. My stacks are about 20 " deep and a LOT of my bullets make it thru the stack! I shoot a Contender in several calibers from 6.5 JDJ to 45-70. In the .30 calibers the 30-30 14" has accounted for several deer with cast bullets of Clip on Wheel weights or a clone of Lyman #2 alloy. I shoot them at about 1900 to 2100 depending on accuracy of the particular mold. I have found the heavier bullets to penetrate MORE than the lighter ones at equal velocity. So IF you are a fan of 2 holes or take "raking" shots, The heaviest ,most accurate slug your gun likes is the one to choose.170 in the 30-30 and the 200 in the 30 40. I use Felix lube and gas checks to hold down any leading. I also have tried Lee liquid Alox with good results.

[abearir]

Thanks for all the great info guys!. I knew the dry phone book test was going to be a tough one. I wanted to know out of the gate if the alloy was was going to blowup if I hit something hard.

[mroliver77]

abearir,
My experience with similar alloy to yours but water quenched is at 2000fps and a flat nosed .30 cal I get a 1"+ hole clear through deer and they die quickly. From wetpack testing I dont believe I am getting expansion but with this performance I dont think it matters!
J

[sthwestvictoria]

I find this thread really interesting. I tried to shoot non-HT 50:50 and non-HT WW but only got accuracy with HT. Left to right is non-HT 50:50, non-HT straight WW with 2% tin then oven HT WW with 2% tin:
82134
Maybe I should go back and re-test this but as the pictures show groups shrunk as the bullets got harder. I did not have a chronograph then so don't know if the velocities were comparable. The only velocity I know is the 39.5grain AR2206H (H4895), heat treated is 1984fps. I am now using AR2208 (Varget) and have a chronograph so maybe I'll re-shoot these and double check. I would like to use a more malleable alloy like 50:50 with 2%tin for hunting if it gives me accuracy. The current oven HT WW with 2% tin is likely too hard for hunting to get expansion.
The rifle is a Mauser 98k, rebored to 35 whelen, 1:14

[pls1911]

I cast soft ( about 50:50 ww: pure pb) then oven heat trat to 22+bhn, push about 2000 fps in 30-30 (all 30 cals) with gas check lubed, sized to .312.
no leading, and I doubt much expansion, but kills very effectively and never leads....

[Larry Gibson]

Here's the accuracy at 100 and 200 yards with my M91 Argentine rebarreled to 35 Remington (Shilen barrel) with receiver sights using the RCBS 35-200-FN cast of the soft alloy I mention in earlier post. There are 2 groups on the 100 yard target; POA was 6 o'clock on the bulls. First 5 shot group was a little high and right, barrel was cleaned, sight adjusted and second 5 shot fired for a just above POA 100 yard zero. Barrel was cleaned again, 3 moa added on recever sight and 5 shot group at 200 yards on larger bull. One photo shows the HP'd (Forster 1/8" HP tool) bullets used for hunting. Additional photo shows the payoff.

Larry Gibson

[waksupi]

abearir,
My experience with similar alloy to yours but water quenched is at 2000fps and a flat nosed .30 cal I get a 1"+ hole clear through deer and they die quickly. From wetpack testing I dont believe I am getting expansion but with this performance I dont think it matters!
J


Eggzactly!

[glockky]

Larry do you always clean your barrel every 5 shots? Is there a reason for it?

[Larry Gibson]

Larry do you always clean your barrel every 5 shots? Is there a reason for it?

Actually the 5 shot groups were for zero and I most often hunt with a clean or one shot fouled barrel with these soft cast hard driven bullets. For load development I use 7-8 shot groups. I clean after 8 shots max because fouling builds and detracts from accuracy. With the same bullet WQ'd they do not foul and I have shot 100+ shots w/o accuracy loss. The cleaning "beteen groups" is only with the AC'd soft cast used for hunting.

Larry Gibson