What caliber for a cb rifle?

[like it all]

Though I've been casting boolits for over 35 yrs, they've always for handgun calibers. Lately I've been thinking about getting a rifle in a caliber that lends itself to CBs. First choice that came to mind was the venerable 30-30, as it seems to perform at the same level with both the copper stuff and PB. Its also big game capable at reasonable ranges ( out to 200 yds.) My second choice was the .308/30-06 due to the availability of rifles chambered for them. Maybe a 7.62X54 surplus Moisin Nagant would work, I know personally how accurate they can be, and they're relatively cheap. I eliminated everything under 7mm, as those bullets require mach. 2+ speeds to give the desired knockdown power I'm looking for. Any inputs would be appreciated, as I'm in unfamiliar territory with anything bottleneck.:cbpour:

[Tatume]

The 30-30 is one of the best cast bullet rifle cartridges there is. The long neck and modest powder capacity lend themselves well to the application. My opinion, the 30-06 is marginally superior to the 308 Win because the neck is longer and will contain lube grooves and gas checks on a longer bullet. The 45-70 is ideally suited to cast bullet shooting, and I own rifles that have never experienced a jacketed bullet. There are some outstanding cartridges for target work, but I gather you're interesting in hunting. My favorite hunting cartridge using cast bullets is the 45-70 (and it's not a bottlenecked cartridge!).

[FAsmus]

Like it;

It all depends on what you plan on doing with the rifle.

A lever gun for hunting? (what type of game?)

A target rifle for benchrest shooting?

A short-range plinker?

Give us a clue.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[Baja_Traveler]

You'll do good with anything in 30 caliber. My Nagant shoots lights out with 311299 and 311356 cast, same with my Garand. 311041 is also an awesome mold for the 30-30 and -06'...

[Tatume]

Hi Forrest,

I take the reference to "knockdown power" to be a clue. :-)

Take care, Tom

[HARRYMPOPE]

The 30-06 in a bolt gun is hard to beat.Good throat dimensions and generally easy to get to shoot.You can get a commercial gun or sporterized military one for not much cash.Brass is also easy to find and lasts a long time.A little bullet like the 3118 can be shot with a dab of Bullseye for anything under 100 yards.A 200g WW bullet at 1800 fps is a good deer load as well.A 45-70 would make good sense if just hunting.The '06 is just cheaper to shoot.

[wrench man]

Something with a .458" bore should produce the knock down power you're looking for? and no fuss with the bottle neck either!

[Jupiter7]

A .35 bore is a nice compromise. 357max, 358 Winchester, 35whelen, etc....Still get heavy boolits and you don't have to hot rod them to get good terminal performance. Can be downloaded with .35 cal pistol boolits for cheap/light plinking.

[btroj]

I think the ideal is the 358 Win. Somehow, I don't own one.

I have used 45-70, 30-30, 45 Colt all in rifles, all with cast. They all worked well. Currently I am hunting with a 375 H&H for deer. It will work well I am sure.

Use enough lead with enough velocity and the rest is just physics and biology.

[koehlerrk]

I have a Marlin levergun that eats 38s and 357s... full-house 357 loads from a rifle are right up with a 30-30 in terms of energy and knockdown. Or if you need more, you could go with one in 44 mag....

[like it all]

I should have added that this would be a big game rifle(Elk being the largest). I do have a 357 and 44 carbine and they do just fine up to the local deer and pigs. The carbines have a 75-100 yd range limit and I would like to try those pointy skinny boolits.

[btroj]

358 Win will easily handle your needs. A 35 Whelen would work too.

[Larry Gibson]

Consider the .358 Winchester then as mentioned. A dandy bolt action with a 22 - 26" barrel with a 14" twist would be just the ticket. You would have the plethora of cast handgun bullets available + the 35-200-FN or heavier up to 250 gr. With a 24 - 26" barrel 2300 - 2500 fps with those 2 a very feasible with excellent accuracy. Elk to 200 yards+ should be no problem.

Larry Gibson

[MT Chambers]

For .30 cals., the .30 BR., 30/30, .308....for Leverguns: 30/30, .358,.356 Win., .375 Win......most of the others have more then optimal case capacity. For cast boolits with more power, the 45/70 is a no-brainer.

[jblee10]

I like my Encore in 357 Max. And I've done some playing around with cast bullets in a Savage bolt gun chambered in 300-221 (300 Whisper, 300 AAC, whatever you call it). The fast twist seems to lend itself well to cast 150 grain boolits. But it does have a short neck, which is not much of a problem for me because I single feed it.

[Blammer]

get something in 35 caliber.

[runfiverun]

yep 35 to 45 caliber will do the job.
35 has the velocity and the bigger stuff has the weight.
I think the easiest rifle I ever got speed and accuracy out of was the 358 win bought the rifle and a 250gr saeco mold and started pouring the steam to it.

[Lead Fred]

I cast for two calibers:

30 WCF out of a 1949 Winnie 94

45/70 out of a Marlin GG

Both with Ranch Dog molds, and either hit the 200 yard gong with ease.

the .458 rules for knock down

[dverna]

Good advice here. My pick for a cb gun that could also double as an elk gun would be the .358, 35 Whelan or .375 H&H. Like others here, I think the .358 is just about ideal and brass is easy to get. If you are not going to use the gun for elk then a .30/30 or .35 Remington would be great choices.

[Piedmont]

I think the best are .30-30, .35 Rem, .358 Win., and .38-55. The .45-70 is a great one too, but when you load it to flatten the trajectory for 200 yards it will recoil quite a lot. For 100 yds. and under you could load the .45-70 to Trapdoor pressures and it would do anything you could want, even very large critters, without beating you up too badly.

[warf73]

My first cast rifle is a Mossin 7.62X54R nice little rifle for under $60, not sure how much they are now. My next build is going to be a 358 Winchester, a sexy old cartridge.

[220]

I was after something similar, like you I have a 357 carbine but also a 30/30, for a dedicated med/lge game CB rifle and also because I wanted to play with BP went for a 45/70.

[FAsmus]

Like-it;

The membership has provided you with lots of good choices.

For excellent "knock-down" power and good hunting characteristics take a Marlin M1895 in 45/70 and have it rebarreled to 40/65. Less recoil - all that. Mine works very well.

Are you there?

Good morning,
Forrest

[DonMountain]

In looking at all of your recommendations, I became interested in the .358 rifle for deer hunting. But I can't seem to find anybody that makes one? So this must be an odd caliber or something? Are these usually in bolt rifles or lever actions? I would prefer a bolt gun built in the United States of America.

[jlchucker]

30-30, 308 Winchester, 35 Remington, and 45-70 are what come quickest to mind for me. I wouldn't pass up a good 32 Special if one came my way for the kind of prices those things used to sell for, either. A good 30-06 is good for just about everything if you only have one cast-boolit gun.

[Dale in Louisiana]

You're buying a gun to play with, get a Mosin-Nagant. I just bought one for $150 delivered to my door (love that C&R) and it's like new. You can use it an abuse it and not be out a lot of money, and if you play with it right you'll do most of your cast boolit learning on it.

Then if you LIKE the game, sink some real money on a more expensive gun.

dale in Louisiana

[dverna]

You're buying a gun to play with, get a Mosin-Nagant. I just bought one for $150 delivered to my door (love that C&R) and it's like new. You can use it an abuse it and not be out a lot of money, and if you play with it right you'll do most of your cast boolit learning on it.

Then if you LIKE the game, sink some real money on a more expensive gun.

dale in Louisiana

The only caution about starting with a Mosin-Nagant is the weird bore size. If you do decide to get a better rifle (and you will), you will not be albe to use the mold.

[Tatume]

Sierra recommends 0.308" diameter jacketed bullets for the 30 Russian cartridge.

[Lead Fred]

only Nord rebores were .308, the millions of others are bigger.

I use .311 SMKs in mine

[Tatume]

If one purchased a mold for 30 Russian would the mold also be useful for 303 British? That's a neat cast bullet cartridge, especially in single shot rifles (IMO).

[smokeywolf]

Not a thing wrong with 30-30, 30-40 or 30-06. But, I think I'd be looking for 38-55, 40-65 or 45-70.

There are others that are great, but I'm familiar with the ones I mentioned.

[MtGun44]

btroj,

Are you sure that the .375 H&H will have enough power for a deer?

:bigsmyl2:

Bill

[JesterGrin_1]

In looking at all of your recommendations, I became interested in the .358 rifle for deer hunting. But I can't seem to find anybody that makes one? So this must be an odd caliber or something? Are these usually in bolt rifles or lever actions? I would prefer a bolt gun built in the United States of America.


The only one that I know of that is currently in production is the BLR Lever Action in .358 Winchester. But if you look around you may find a Ruger Bolt action made in .358 Winchester used or Old Stock from someone.

Or you can purchase the rifle you like in a .308 based caliber rifle such as the .243,308 win,338 Fed and either have it rebored by Jess or purchase a New Barrel and install it or have it installed. The easiest platform for this would be a Savage or a Marlin XS. But I would recommend a Savage as they are easy to find a multitude of parts for.

[btroj]

btroj,

Are you sure that the .375 H&H will have enough power for a deer?

:bigsmyl2:

Bill

Bill, they grow em pretty big in northern MO where I hunt!

I load it down to 1750 with a 265 gr bullet. It is actually a pretty dang good deer rifle, plenty good ballistics to reach out there. Sadly, it is an awful heavy gun to lug around.

[Char-Gar]

Get a good 30-06 bolt gun and a lifetime of shooting pleasure and enjoyment will be yours. We have over 100 years experience of shooting cast bullets in these rifles. More molds have been designed over a longer period of time than any other caliber. In spite of it's antiquity, it still pleases and from time to time unlocks new secrets.

[youngda9]

You can almost always find a 358 win Ruger on GB.

[quilbilly]

If you want it for varmints, my choice would be the 222 or 6mm which both have those fine long necks. If it is for deer, the 30/30 or one of the 35's (my personal favorite is the 357 max but you won't see in rifles much). If it is for bigger game, I like the 444 because there is so flexible with boolit sizes and bases. My favorites for plinking are the 357 max and 9mm in single shot carbines with plain base boolits making them cheaper than a 22LR to shoot now that primers are back on the shelves.

[MarkP]

35 cal --- 358 Win, 35 Whelen, 350 Rem Mag.

[theperfessor]

Lots of choices, but a good Mauser in 8mm would be on my list.

[jethunter]

My favorite CB rifle is a Husqvarna model 46 chambered for 9.3x57. It's a simple, good quality swedish rifle based on the model 1896 Swedish mauser action. I don't know what the price is like in the USA but they're $250-$300 up here and lots of them to choose from. Brass is simple to make from 8x57 and NOE makes a nice 280 gr gas check mold.

[MBTcustom]

IMHO, the best calibers for cast boolits in a rifle (excluding rifles that shoot pistol calibers) are as follows:
.22 Hornet and K-hornet
7mm Waters
7mm-08
30-30
308
35 Remington
358 Winchester
375 H&H
416 Rigby
444 Marlin
45-70 gvnt
I have not had experiance with all of these, but thy are all on my bucket list.
BTW, I can build a 358 Winchester on most any of the common bolt actions. I have a thread in special projects that shows a Remington 700 LA that I built into a 358 Winchester.

[JesterGrin_1]

Get a good 30-06 bolt gun and a lifetime of shooting pleasure and enjoyment will be yours. We have over 100 years experience of shooting cast bullets in these rifles. More molds have been designed over a longer period of time than any other caliber. In spite of it's antiquity, it still pleases and from time to time unlocks new secrets.


Just Great another new Secret Hand Shake I have to learn in the dark lol. :)

[Artful]

My $0.02 - it's easier to cast larger boolits than smaller - my lower limit anymore is .30 - I prefer .35, .375, .44, .45 when it comes to game animals - Remember with cast you are limited to lower velocities so to increase performance you need to increase the size of the boolit, which comes at the cost of more recoil.

An example of this I love ruger #3's, I have .223 and 375 Big Bore - I Don't have 45-70 and I have put recoil pad on 375 - the light weight little carbines become less enjoyable the harder you push a bigger boolit. - I have a 45-70 but in a Marlin 1895 Leveraction which weighs more and has the weight further away from me.

Most any caliber cartridge can be used for cast, but it is easier to use a straight case - sort of an oversize pistol cartridge. 357 maximum, 375 big bore, 38-55, 444 Marlin, 45-70 all fit into this description. Nothing wrong with bottleneck cartridges provided they were designed with cast in mind like 30-30. Some of the newer cartridges have the boolit below the case neck and have huge volumes of powder capacity that you don't need for cast.

Your getting good advise, but it really depends upon your needs and wants.

[Tatume]

Actually, I spent a lot of time on this question myself a few years ago. I didn't mention this because I expect it to be unpopular, and besides, the gun I choose isn't available anymore. I decided that the 9.3x74R, which is rimmed with a long neck and a gentle taper, would be an ideal cast bullet cartridge. I got a Ruger No. 1, outfitted it with XS Sights front and rear sights, and have had a blast (pun intended) ever since. I'm running a 270 grain GC bullet at 2100 fps with excellent accuracy. Veral Smith cut the mold for me in his Marlin profile. Recoil is mild.

[MarkP]

or Design your own:
820578205882059

[oldpapps]

I have limited experience on this one.

Discounting pistol rounds, I have only worked up three rifle loads for lead.

The least (in my opinion). .308 Winchester. I could have done this one in 30-06 but as my Lyman book suggested fillers. I just went with the shorter case. My cast bullets sized, grease and with gas checks weighed in at 173 to 179 grains (several alloys tried). These didn't have (nor were they expected to) have the velocity potential of jacketed bullets. They did not shown (me) a great potential (with my rifle) for exceptional accuracy. I moved on.

Number two. .45-70. My bullet was a flat point, flat base that came in at 385 to 390 grains. The problem with this one was the rifle or my worries about that rifle. An original 1884, 1873 Trapdoor. The metal was soft and I feared I would harm it. I moved on.

Number three. .375 H&H Mag. Had a rifle that could take it, what ever it may be. My load was a 285/92 grain gas checked flat point to an about 1750 FPS, per 'the book' listings and we all know how accurate those can be. I didn't have an chronograph at the time. The load shot well and didn't show any leading or pressure signs.

To your original question, I would look to a larger caliber, heavy bullet round. They don't require super velocities to do a good job. The .45-70 would be a very good option with the right weapon. The .308 worked fine. It just didn't excite me.

They all are fun. Go have fun :)

OSOK

[Tatume]

or Design your own:
820578205882059

Very nice indeed! What is your powder capacity? What speed are you getting?

[MarkP]

Very nice indeed! What is your powder capacity? What speed are you getting?

81 gr Water--- I have (2) boolits 315 gr & 400 gr Accurate Brass mold; I have only pushed the 400 gr a little past 2,000 fps and the 315 gr to 2,300 ish. I figure I could safely get 2,250 and 2,500 fps. But once I push the 400's past about 1,750 or so it begins to hurt after 10 shots or so. It is on a Rem M SEVEN stainless action and is only 6.25 lbs fully dressed. I just got it put together last December still developing loads. Trailboss loads are wonderful to shoot a full case gives 1,275 (400) and 1,400 fps (315)

[Tatume]

Hi Mark,

Is the parent case a 308W?

Take care, Tom

[youngda9]

400gr at 2000fps is 3550ft-lbs! Made from 308 brass? Any idea what the pressure of that round is?

[MarkP]

Hi Mark,

Is the parent case a 308W?

Take care, Tom

Tom, The parent case is a 300 WSM pink arrow, green arrow is a 308 Win, Aqua Arrow 350 Rem Mag.

82108

First case is 300 WSM, second is necked to .416, third the shoulder is pushed back, then I neck ream and load.

[MarkP]

400gr at 2000fps is 3550ft-lbs! Made from 308 brass? Any idea what the pressure of that round is?

Just looked at 338 Federal data that was shot with piezo (Hodgdon had pressure with psi units listed Alliant did not have pressure listed); both data sources; 225 gr --around 3,200 ft-lbs @ 60 ksi; so an add'l 11% may be possible due to some efficiency gains. I did look at the 308 as a parent case and drew it up, but with an I.D. of .418 the neck O.D. was getting pretty close to the shoulder diameter. Also I wanted to match 405 Win & 450 Marlin ballistics at similar pressures so I chose the larger volume cartridge. Ever since I was a little kid I always thought a 416 just sounded good.

A 375-08 would be pretty cool.

[like it all]

Thanks fellas, You've given me enough info that I can start looking at rifles. I know it's gotta be at least 30 cal, 35's are interesting but are only available in more upscale rifles, the 45-70 is also a likely. The 30's are a real likely due to the myriad bullet molds and designs available. The 45-70 would certainly have the power I'm looking for. I'll see what the local gun shops have as trade ins.:bigsmyl2:

[rowe_s]

You'll do good with anything in 30 caliber. My Nagant shoots lights out with 311299 and 311356 cast, same with my Garand. 311041 is also an awesome mold for the 30-30 and -06'...

I am very interested in loading cast for my Garand. I would apreciate info on your load, so I can give it a try.