hi-tek boolet coating

[Magana559]

Will cast boolits expand after the coating?

I want to pour soft lead into a mold and coat them boolits with the coating then shoot them at jacketed velocities.

Question is will a flat nose 200gr .309 hi-Tek boolet expand when hunting?

[Magana559]

http://www.bayoubullets.net/Coating.html

Its a coating that acts like a jacket.
Hard to explain. I'm on my phone and I don't know how to post the videos.

[jhalcott]

Put one of your coated bullets on a steel plate. Whack it with a heavy hammer. IF it expands , then think what will happen when it impacts an animal at 1500 to 2000 fps. You can shoot one into some phone books or newspaper stacks to see the results of an actual high velocity impact. The coating MAY remain, but it isn't a full metal jacket and SHOULD allow the alloy to expand as normal. I've had Linotype bullets NOT expand on ground hogs, but softer alloys did. IF this is the baked on stuff, you may be heat treating the bullets to a harder BHN. IF SO, I'd certainly test them for performance before using them on game!

[Mike Hughes]

Here is a lot of info on the Hi Tek http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?204174-simple-Hi-Tek-coatingcoating
It is a sticky in the boolit lube section. Your lead will have an annealing effect after baking it. COWW going into the oven at 14 BHN, comes out at about 8BHN. I have had excellent results with handgun and low velocity rifle, but getting a lot of leading with high velocity stuff

[Magana559]

Put one of your coated bullets on a steel plate. Whack it with a heavy hammer. IF it expands , then think what will happen when it impacts an animal at 1500 to 2000 fps. You can shoot one into some phone books or newspaper stacks to see the results of an actual high velocity impact. The coating MAY remain, but it isn't a full metal jacket and SHOULD allow the alloy to expand as normal. I've had Linotype bullets NOT expand on ground hogs, but softer alloys did. IF this is the baked on stuff, you may be heat treating the bullets to a harder BHN. IF SO, I'd certainly test them for performance before using them on game!

Thank you sir! I'll give that a whack! Lol

[Magana559]

Here is a lot of info on the Hi Tek http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?204174-simple-Hi-Tek-coatingcoating
It is a sticky in the boolit lube section. Your lead will have an annealing effect after baking it. COWW going into the oven at 14 BHN, comes out at about 8BHN. I have had excellent results with handgun and low velocity rifle, but getting a lot of leading with high velocity stuff

I'm thinking of using almost pure lead in these boolits and push them as fast as I can, I called the guy and he said to put a GC on it if any leading occurs. Also told me to call him if I have any questions but the man runs a business so I would do that as a last resort.
I thank you for the thread now off to do some reading!!!

[Slow Elk 45/70]

WOW... what to say, I'll keep my mouth closed...

[Magana559]

Didn't your mom ever tell you if you don't have something nice to say don't day anything at all.

I know I'm a new to the process but don't post a darn thing if you aren't going to be helpful.

[bangerjim]

A lot of us are having GREAT success with electrostactic gun applied powder coating.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?209151-Powder-Coating-101-Electrostatic-Method

I use the $59 (-20%) Harbor Freight coating gun and their black powder with EXCELLENT success.

Powder coating is a "Hi-Tec" coating that does not require any lube at all.....with no leading that any of us have seen up to and including hot rifle loads. It is rock hard and does not scrape off. And is VERY easy to apply. I just finished 500 38's tonite in about an hour.

bangerjim

[Magana559]

Damn it all sounds tempting, I already bought the Hi-Tek so will try this first then try powder coating see which one is best for me.
Can you guys get expansion out of your bullets? Or do you have to make it a soft point type thing??

[Magana559]

What I'm trying to do is push dead soft lead at jacketed velocities for great expansion when hunting with my 45-70 or 500 S&W handi rifle.

I'm a bit on the crippled side so tracking game is hard for me. I want em dead right where I shot them.

[Magana559]

Or out of my 06 or mosin.

[waksupi]

Didn't your mom ever tell you if you don't have something nice to say don't day anything at all.

I know I'm a new to the process but don't post a darn thing if you aren't going to be helpful.

Great way to make friends around here. Good luck.

[Magana559]

Great way to make friends around here. Good luck.

Don't need no friends like that.

And I'll quote myself to you on that too. Irrelevant to the thread.

[Recluse]

I know I'm a new to the process but don't post a darn thing if you aren't going to be helpful.

The point is, we see a lot of new members come through who ask a question, get some erroneous answers/advice, take it as gospel because they are not looking for education in what they want to do, but instead are looking for justification. When older--read: EXPERIENCED MEMBERS--shake their heads, too many new members get all pissy and hurt feelings.

Then you try and tell us what to do on our board, ie, don't post if we're not going to give you a reply or answer that you like.

There are two glaringly distinct errors in responses here that if you follow, you're going to have the damndest mess you've ever seen in your guns.

But you seem to have things figured out so far as how you want the answers served up to you, so figure them out for yourself.

In the meantime, say hello to Frank.

:coffee:

[Magana559]

Recluse it is not the fact that I want to hear what I want or a answer that dose not fit in my mind.
I was asking a simple question as where nowhere I imply negative feedback unless it was not on topic.
I have casted for all my pistols successfully using your method of lube 40-40-10.
Rifles are a total different animal due to velocity and barrel length.

Again I was being respectful to the people that tried to help, to the people that had irrelevant replies to the topic were shunned.

If what I was saying was a bad idea then why didn't anybody say so in a respectful manner. I am new to casting but not to life. But even this California boy knows his respect.

I thank you for your words and your recipe. But as far as being out of line I was not. As a matter of fact new members should be treated well even when asking stupid questions.

[Magana559]

This thread has ran its course shut her down.

[Magana559]

BTW who is frank?

[leadman]

In response to your original question. No, the Hi-Tek coating will not make a pure lead boolit capable of being fired at high velocities. To do this I had to heat treat linotype for the 30-06 and 223 Rem. Got 2500 fps with a 200gr boolit in the 30-06 and 3,465 fps in the 223Rem with a 45gr RN. Both gas checked.
The Hi-Tek coating does not change the laws of physics. I refer you to Richard Lee's Second Edition manual that has good info on pressure and boolit strength.

[Magana559]

I thank you sir! Seems to me like the boolit would explode because its too soft.....now that's the info I needed!

[Magana559]

Might I ask if you expect these boolits to expand any?

[Love Life]

I tried pure lead coated (Hi-Tek) in the 38 special and had leading. No leading with 20:1 and a gas checked bullet in the 38 special.

So I would think you would have issues pushing pure lead that fast. I would go with Flat point bullet, of a harder alloy (WW, Lino, etc) and use those for hunting instead.

Just my opinion and experience using HI-TEK super coat. Hope all works well for you.

[Magana559]

I have the copper super coat and will try coww with a al gascheck. See what happens, I have a 200gr 309 boolit mold for the 06 and 30-30 a 186gr 312 boolit mold for the mosin 440gr 501 mold for the 500 handi rifle and a 500gr 457 for the 45-70 handi rifle as well all FP molds.

[runfiverun]

bhn of the boolit is not the end all to velocity.
i cut linotype in half with pure lead and shoot it over 2700 with accuracy in my 223.
adding a coating is just that,,, adding a coating to act like a psuedo jaxket in the barrel.
alloy manipulation is something else, how it works in a game animal and how it is treated are fairly linear....
fit and velocity/accuracy are tied together also.
throwing a coating on a pure lead boolit is not going to allow you a miracle in the velocity/accuracy department, unless that coating is copper/paper and protects the "lead" core to the muzzle at the minimum.

[jhalcott]

I HAVE used really soft alloys with a PAPER patch to get near factory velocity. I do NOT see why you NEED that high velocity for hunting. Even the largest animals have been taken with pure lead at what can be considered modest speed. IF that coated bullet does hit an animal, it could simply OVER expand and/or come apart. Wounding the animal and not killing it. Handguns and rifles are 2 different worlds, what works for one doesn't necessarily work in the other. I would be interested in YOUR results!

[Magana559]

I some how thought it would work, never used it but I guess I was taken by the hype.

Still have to find d a oven and build some kind of rack That will fit inside of it to cure the coat.
I was just asking if it was possible I'm not saying it was.

I'm sure I can hit a hog at 2500fps with a soft lead 200gr and drop it even with over expansion at 100 yards. More so with 440gr 500sw handi rifle or 500gr 45-70 gov handi rifle at jacketed velocities.

[Magana559]

The whole point is to hit em hard to make em drop. Like I stated earlier in this thread, I am cripple and tracking down a deer that ran off 100 yards in the brush isn't something I'm looking forward to.

[Ramjet-SS]

Then what I would suggest is going with high velocity bullet like the Barnes X or Nosler Accubond. The best "drop em where they stand" deer gun I own is a 220 Swift shooting a Barnes X bullet at close to 4000 FPS they drop right where I hit them another great bullet that has really good success is the DRT line of ammo. Really high velocity rifle caliber with good expanding bullets may serve you better. A 257 Weatherby is an excellent example it will drive lighter bullets of excellent design at very high velocities and drop the animal right where it stands.

[Love Life]

Like I stated earlier in this thread, I am cripple and tracking down a deer that ran off 100 yards in the brush isn't something I'm looking forward to.

Is tracking the deer something you are CAPABLE of, and you just don't look forward to it or are you completely INCAPABLE of tracking an animal due to your handicap?

I ask this because even with a super whizbang deer slayer load and bullet, the animal may not drop DRT. Have you looked into asking somebody to come hunting with you? Somebody who is able bodied and can track the deer if things don't go right?

[Magana559]

Is tracking the deer something you are CAPABLE of, and you just don't look forward to it or are you completely INCAPABLE of tracking an animal due to your handicap?

I ask this because even with a super whizbang deer slayer load and bullet, the animal may not drop DRT. Have you looked into asking somebody to come hunting with you? Somebody who is able bodied and can track the deer if things don't go right?

Just had a L4-S1 fusion on the 20th of August and I was shooting for next years trip. Problem is my hunting partner is my 17yo nephew built like a tank but has very little hunting experience and no real tracking of medium sized game. All of my friends are shooters but only one is a hunter and he now lives out of state.

I guess I'll just have to shell out the cash for some tsx or ttsx bullets. Just thought I might get some information.

[Magana559]

So to answer your question is this year I'm incapable of tracking a deer into the brush due tothe bending and twisting it takes to get through the bushes. Maybe next year I'll be good enough to and teach my nephew this year on how to track a blood trail by making mock trails.

[Love Life]

Thank you. Hopefully you find somebody who can help you out and hopefully you get back to 100% quickly!!

[popper]

Magana559 - make sure you have arsenic in the alloy and HT for 30 min then WD. Else you might as well shoot coated pure. Your BHN will be cut in half as leadman indicates.
I can hit a hog at 2500fps with a soft lead 200gr Maybe PP out of a 300mag. With that load you'll get 8' groups @ 25.

[Magana559]

Still new to all of this and trying to figure it out, jacketed cast and pp are three different monsters. I think I'll pp the 500gr 45-70 just to make sure I do not get leading in the barrel.

[Magana559]

Plus my mold is casting at .4575

[NVScouter]

Not suprised your a California boy with that attitude.

Most of us treat each other better here and take it with a grain of salt when a post sounds negative. Written words dont have the body languge or voice inflection the post may have been meant to have.

That being said you mention buying all copper bullets from Barnes instead of lead. You also mention using a 45-70 and 500 Handi rifle to make sure your game is dead on the spot. While I understand your physical limitations its your complete lack of care of wasting a major portion of your game animal with a grenading bullet that shocks me. Nothing in California can't be stopped by a 30-30 much less a 350-500g bullet. Top that off with the yang to the yin being a solid barely expanding bullet by the company that testified in California to ban the lead bullets you want to use. Just do the best you can, enjoy your hunt, put that young man to use, and respect your game.

I'm sure you didnt want to hear that either however, please stay in California.


Recluse it is not the fact that I want to hear what I want or a answer that dose not fit in my mind.
I was asking a simple question as where nowhere I imply negative feedback unless it was not on topic.
I have casted for all my pistols successfully using your method of lube 40-40-10.
Rifles are a total different animal due to velocity and barrel length.

Again I was being respectful to the people that tried to help, to the people that had irrelevant replies to the topic were shunned.

If what I was saying was a bad idea then why didn't anybody say so in a respectful manner. I am new to casting but not to life. But even this California boy knows his respect.

I thank you for your words and your recipe. But as far as being out of line I was not. As a matter of fact new members should be treated well even when asking stupid questions.

[Magana559]

Not suprised your a California boy with that attitude.

Most of us treat each other better here and take it with a grain of salt when a post sounds negative. Written words dont have the body languge or voice inflection the post may have been meant to have.

That being said you mention buying all copper bullets from Barnes instead of lead. You also mention using a 45-70 and 500 Handi rifle to make sure your game is dead on the spot. While I understand your physical limitations its your complete lack of care of wasting a major portion of your game animal with a grenading bullet that shocks me. Nothing in California can't be stopped by a 30-30 much less a 350-500g bullet. Top that off with the yang to the yin being a solid barely expanding bullet by the company that testified in California to ban the lead bullets you want to use. Just do the best you can, enjoy your hunt, put that young man to use, and respect your game.

I'm sure you didnt want to hear that either however, please stay in California.
I do not know who you are but I bet your bitter on the inside just because I'm from California. I'm also moving to your state so you and I can get along.
If your so smart and wise you would know that a 45-70 smashing some deer ribs (no meat on deer ribs) is not a bad idea. Heck several people use slugs for deer and other game, are they not respecting their game?

As to the Barnes TTSX or TSX they are known not to expand? Ha ha you sir make me laugh! Problem is people do not know you have to load copper bullets faster to expand em. Don't expect to push a copper bullet under 2000fps (depending on caliber and handgun/rifle) I have had great success loading the barns bullets. I even have a friend who took a black bear with a .270 win using Barnes TSX. Unbelievable for a bullet that doesn't expand right!

[nighthunter]

Magana ... I had an L3 to S1 fusion 4 years ago and didn't miss hunting season. Hopefully you will recover quickly enough that you will make it this year. If you can't drop your deer on the spot just hit it well enough to leave a blood trail that a blind man could follow. That will make it a lot easier on your hunting partner, sorta like on the job training. As for your casting questions,
hopefully we can offer up a few decent answers. Not all the answers will be right but the poster might not really know either. Sometimes experience really counts with casting. Heck ... try it to find out if it works. Keep coming back ... there is a lot to learn here and most of the people will try to help you. Good luck.

Nighthunter

[Dean D.]

Let's keep this discussion on topic and civil folks. Magana has asked some relevant questions about the current hottest thing in new technology for boolits. If you can't add something constructive just don't add anything at all.

[Ramjet-SS]

Magna you do not have to drive the cast bullet fast for expansion and quick kills. Example the 58 caliber with round ball running 1600-1800 that will drop a deer there. For example I have a 375 GNR in handgun 8" barrel I shoot a GC pure lead bullet with Hi-Tek lube running 1375 FPS no leading and the bullet penetrates over 20" of wet Pak and expanded to .5" at that speed and retained 70% of the original 250 grains. No doubt will drop an animal with well placed shot. I also have run some real soft alloy with Hi-Tek and a GC close to 2000 FPS no leading issues. So you can do it take some time experiment with wet Pak and your loads compare the results with a known effective jacketed load you will find your combination then you just have to make the shot. But again a good slow twist muzzle loader with fast moving pure lead round ball is very very effective.

[Magana559]

I have about 80lbs of soww to blend into my regular coww and range scrap, one of the main reasons I asked. My nephew and I smelted about 100lbs of a blend of all three to an average of 10bh using the calculator on here. Going to try to shoot water dropped as is for my 30-30 and see where we are at. Then try the hi-tek coating to try to increase velocity as I would also like a better trajectory if possible. Going to shoot up to 100 yards on field and try at 230 at the range.

[Ramjet-SS]

Here is my blend and some of the velocities:

Pure lead or plumbers lead 16 lbs-2lbs of printers Lino-roll of 50-50 solder.

325 grain .458 at over 1800 FPS

310 grain .453 up to 1600 FPS

.376 from handgun at 1400 FPS

All gas checked bullets.

All Hi-Tek coating with copper red. Followed directions and used a heat gun to confirm the 375 degree F for a few minutes.

Great expansion great accuracy and no leading.

[NVScouter]

Where your from isnt nearly as important as what attitude you bring to the table. Lots of my friends are from California as escapees. None of them have the California superiority attitude and are good honest respectful people. Plenty of folks here are from California and I enjoy thier knowledge and posts.

Barnes TSX and TTSX in .458 and .500 need more meat than a deer to expand, and as you say need to be loaded faster. The .458 TSX is designed to be used in a .458 WINMAG not the 45-70 so good luck with that. How fast do you think your going to load them in a 20-22" Handi rifle with a fused spine? Your friend shot a projectile in the 140g range from his 270 around 3,000FPS into a bear with 3 times the meat of a deer. The bullet had speed and time for it to expand and worked perfectly. The same bullet on a deer would show marginal expansion on a deer but still has the speed. You will have neither.

If you load a 400g bullet to 2500fps in your 5lb rifle expect to go back for repair work on your back. I'm rapidly becoming a Handi rifle fan and know very well what it takes to make a .458 expand out of my 45-70 Handi rifle. A 300g JHP speer will bang/flop a deer and expand at 1500fps impact velocity, a large, hard, heavy bullet will make a 45 caliber entrance and exit and require tracking. A 300-500 soft cast at over 1000fps impact should deform nicely at moderate pressures.

Deer slugs are large caliber, soft, and slow moving projectiles. They leave the barrel at under 1500fps most times, hollow base and hollow point. Meat damage is minimal for the intended ranges. If you loaded one of those like you sugested they would explode on impact creating a massive impact area and possibly get very little penitration.

I also disagree on deer ribs. I keep mine to slow cook in BBQ sauce, you just need three times as many per person.

I think your injury is freaking you out into thinking your hunting days are over. If it was me I'd send my Handi rifle to H&R for a 30-30/7-30W, or .308WIN barrel and stick to jacketed bullets for a couple seasons until I was healed up.



Now put those in a .308 a heavy speed and sure they will do OK on a deer.
I do not know who you are but I bet your bitter on the inside just because I'm from California. I'm also moving to your state so you and I can get along.
If your so smart and wise you would know that a 45-70 smashing some deer ribs (no meat on deer ribs) is not a bad idea. Heck several people use slugs for deer and other game, are they not respecting their game?

As to the Barnes TTSX or TSX they are known not to expand? Ha ha you sir make me laugh! Problem is people do not know you have to load copper bullets faster to expand em. Don't expect to push a copper bullet under 2000fps (depending on caliber and handgun/rifle) I have had great success loading the barns bullets. I even have a friend who took a black bear with a .270 win using Barnes TSX. Unbelievable for a bullet that doesn't expand right!