Throats on a Flatop Blackhawk [Archive]

PatMarlin

08-21-2005, 11:29 AM

I just bought a used New Model Ruger Blackhawk Flatop in .45 Colt, 6" bbl-

I won't be able to shoot it for 10 days (waiting period so I can cool off), and I had the gunsmith measure the throats which were .457.

Couldn't talk him into slugging the bore for free, but they will take the gun back if I don't like the way it shoots.

Is the big of a throat a problem? Do I need a .456 -.457 sized cast boolit before this will shoot well? Seems kinda sloppy if I have a .452 boolit.

Never had one before, but I like the weight and ballance of the aluminum grip frame, and this ones had action and trigger tunning. Just feels way better than the new Rugers, which to me don't feel as nice.

felix

08-21-2005, 12:11 PM

Yes, big throats are a problem. They can be compensated somewhat by shooting soft boolits, air cooled wheel weights, using fast pistol powders such as BE, 700X, Clays with a medium force primer, such as remington standard. Something like circa 6 grains of powder with a 185-200 grainer boolit, such as the acp type. You want the front end of the case to blow up to chamber dimensions extremely quickly, with the hope the whole shootin' match is centered before the boolit leaves the case. The gas stream expands towards the center of the boolit as the boolit begins to move. Alter the powder amount by .5 grains at first, and then dial in to .2 grain variations. Yes, it might take 6 months of fun to find the load, but you should be able to find a load that will print one ragged hole at 50 feet. ... felix

PatMarlin

08-21-2005, 12:15 PM

Thanks Felix.

That'll make her more fun. If all my rigs shot cast bollits sub- moa out of the box, I'd be in a world of hurt.. :)

9.3X62AL

08-21-2005, 12:20 PM

.457"??!! Ruger went from the sublime to the ridiculous in 45 Colt, it seems. Not so long ago, Ruger 45 Colt throats reliably ran at .449"--enabling a cottage industry to crop up servicing the cylinders to a right and proper .4525"-.454".

I hope this isn't typical of Ruger regimen with their new-series revolvers.

PatMarlin

08-21-2005, 12:46 PM

How much of a financial undertaking is it to have another cylnder fitted to one of these?

felix

08-21-2005, 01:48 PM

Cheaper to rebarrel, and most especially if you are currently set at a line-bored quality with positive lockup at each port. ... felix

Willbird

08-21-2005, 03:13 PM

Re-barrel to .457 ??

On the new models it might be terribly expensive to have a 44 magnum cyl re-chambered to proper dims for 45 colt IF you could locate one.

Bill

buck1

08-21-2005, 07:09 PM

457 45 colt in a Ruger? Think of the bullets you could shoot! Heck I would be tempted to open it and the BBL to 458, and try some of the big boys at slow speed!
If I had to wait 10 days I would be mad even if I wasnt before!!
It sounds fun! ....Buck

HickoryCreek

08-21-2005, 07:51 PM

457? Wow is this a misprint? Is this possible? 457? I can't imagine paying money for a firearm and it coming out like that. Unbelievable.

PatMarlin

08-21-2005, 09:48 PM

jh45gun

08-22-2005, 05:16 AM

Well folks that is why I have sworn off of Ruger single actions as they can be sloppy and not only their 45's but their other calibers too. even their 22 single actions. The last two used Rugers I bought a 44 blackhawk and a single six were crap and both were like new which is why I bought them. I soon found out why they were in the used bin so I traded them back off as they both shot like crap. Now not all Rugers are like this and if you have a good shooter hang on to it because the next one may not be. I found that out the hard way as my first single six was a good one as was my first blackhawk 44. I traded off the single six to buy a 357 and I dumped the first 44 as I did not reload then and figured it was too expensive to shoot a lot. I now kick my self for getting rid of both of them as they were great shooters. Not all Rugers SA's seem to be that way though which I have found out the hard way.

Bass Ackward

08-22-2005, 06:11 AM

Well-

I'm double checking on the .457 clyinder throats and if it is indeed that large I think I'm gonna pass, and look for another used Flat Top.

Even if I re-barrled, all of my .452 .454, and .455 molds would be worthless on this gun.. :roll:

Pat,

Yea. Check it well. I had one with throats that ranged from .451 to .457 and it was a real challenge. Just to keep it from leading.

Another way to look at it though, is that it shot every load equally well. :grin:
Best pie plate killer to ever come down the pike as long as you didn't go passed 25 yards!

PatMarlin

08-22-2005, 11:50 AM

Hi Bass-

I just got off the phone with the shop and he says it has .454 cyl throats and .457 forcing cone, with .452 barrel

Is .454 on the throat still a problem with cast boolits?

felix

08-22-2005, 11:54 AM

No, just try different loads with different boolits. ... felix

PatMarlin

08-22-2005, 03:36 PM

Bass Ackward

08-22-2005, 04:34 PM

Hey Thanks Felix...

Now I feel a little better about this deal.

Hey-

How come it takes BA John so long to get back to my post? :coffee:

Don't tell me he has a life and a real job outside of CB?.[smilie=p: [smilie=p: [smilie=b: [smilie=l: [smilie=b: [smilie=p: [smilie=p:

Pat,

Yes, I still work. I have a wife. Some jobs are for pay and some are not.

Those dimensions are pretty close to ideal I would say. Get a good slip fit on the throats and you are .001 under. That puts you .001 over bore which should handle ACWW and softer just fine. Sorry, but I never went the hard route on a 45 Colt.

PatMarlin

08-22-2005, 04:50 PM

I didn't picture the wife, but a cott in the back room with several hundred rifles on the wall- a reloading bench and computer... [smilie=l:

Lol.. Thanks John!

Char-Gar

08-22-2005, 09:49 PM

This post sounded better with .454 throats. Still it sound like somebody opened them up as most NM BHs run .450-451 in the throats. .454 is about right. I had Bowen open us a couple of cylinders for me to .453. Gary Reeder built me a full custom and I asked for .453 throats but they came out .454 and they are just fine. I size my bullets. 454 for both revolvers.

26Charlie

08-23-2005, 09:03 PM

Pat Marlin,
Since they will let you shoot it & return it if not satisfied, that is what you should do. You cannot depend on their measurements anyway, you have to measure it yourself easily - just try to slip a .454 bullet through the throats. Also, it may have funny throats and shoot well anyway, just like the occasional gun will have good throats and shoot poorly.
If you or anyone needs it, I have a .457 mould for a Keith-style 250 gr. bullet from Mountain Molds, 2 cavity in brass. He had cut it for someone who didn't come through, so I bought it to see if it would work in the .45-70. It really is too light for that, and although the bullets can easily be sized to .452 I have Keith moulds in that size. I'll sell it for what I paid (which I would have to look up) so if you or anyone needs it send me a message. Since this is your thread, I'll give you first refusal.

Depreacher

08-23-2005, 10:46 PM

I bought mine new in 1975 (.45 colt NMBH) and it came with .454 plus throats. Hard cast .452's shot pretty good, but 250gr. keith (well kinda) .454's were great. Did a lot of 500 and 600 yd. work on Red River with that boolit (yes, we checked with binoculars first). I was taught long range handgun shooting in the early 60's by C.E. Price of Garland city AR who was also a friend of Elmer Keiths and was mentioned in several of his articles. When shooting with "Bud" no stump in the river was safe if he could see it. He always had several "well tuned" .44 mags to shoot. The OMSBH 7 1/2" being one of his favorites. In the .45 I used 6.8gr green dot/250gr..454 for a nice turtle load on the river at 841 fps, so the chrony says. 8 gr. unique, and up to 10 gr. unique I used some. Recently shot some .452 300 grainers ahead of 22.2gr. H-110 for 1103fps in it's 7 1/2" bbl.., WAHOO!!! Kick-um like bay mule. For some reason, Leading was never a problem with these loose tolerances. I still miss "Bud". cbp

PatMarlin

08-23-2005, 11:48 PM

I gotta tell ya- I'm really excited about this handgun. Specially with all the positive news so far.

I've wanted one of these for a long time, but every time I picked a NEW one up in the stores, something bothered me about them. I was in Reno Last week in the BIG sports store... forget the name, and they had a good selection of Rugers. Not one of them felt right- smooth, or I can't explain it.

They feel unfinished to me.

So- when I saw this used one something about it caught my eye right off. Had the signs of a well used, but definitely not abused, pistol. Someone used and loved this baby. The action feels- smooth and tight. Trigger was great. I think someone had custom work done on this BlackHawk. May turn out to be a real shooter.

I need a pack pistol with authority. I've got a cannon 454 Casull, but this one with the aluminum grip frame is just perfect... 8-)

Bass Ackward

08-24-2005, 06:24 AM

I gotta tell ya- I'm really excited about this handgun. Specially with all the positive news so far. May turn out to be a real shooter.

Pat,

Now this might be just me, but I find a new handgun to work a lot better if you have shells loaded up for them. How many boxes you worken on now? :grin:

9.3X62AL

08-24-2005, 10:49 AM

.454" throats into .452" groove sound like someone's throat job on an undersized cylinder, all right. I would try the .454"-sized boolits in a couple different shapes/designs, and see what works for you. The Brownell's reamer kindly loaned to me by a board member re-cut my tight .449"s to .4525", and these get along quite well with both .453" castings that don't quite reach full-size in the .454" sizer (Lee 200 SWCs), and with .454" #454424 Keiths and #454190 RNFPs. I had some pre-sized (for 45 ACP) Lees @.452", and shot no differently than the lubed/untouched by die wall examples.

Other than the BisHawk 45 Colt, I've had pretty good luck with Ruger revolvers. These include the Redhawk x 5.5" in 44, Blackhawk x 6.5" in 41, and a BisHawk in 357. The 357 is the most accurate revolver in that caliber I've ever owned.

PatMarlin

08-24-2005, 11:39 AM

Pat,

Now this might be just me, but I find a new handgun to work a lot better if you have shells loaded up for them. How many boxes you worken on now? :grin:

In our great Golden State John... I will soon be held accountable for my ammunition, and not be allowed to cast boolits.

I will have to register any ammunition purchased, and turn in any of the "Un serialised" cartridges I may have on hand, to the local authorities.

So in mental preparation of SB 357 passing, I am using the power of positive visualisation, and focusing on the image of my BlackHawk. Then when it finally gets in my hands after my 10 day waiting period is up, I will be able to behold the great beauty and symbol of what was once a free and great country.

Didn't think I was actually going to shoot it for cryin' out loud did ya?.. :mrgreen:

9.3X62AL

08-24-2005, 03:36 PM

grumble

08-24-2005, 03:50 PM

I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet, Pat. It might be nice to pass these legislative fiats inside the River City, but getting the actual work done--gathering in all that ammunition--will have to be done by SOMEBODY. And guess who that somebody will likely be? LOCAL COP SHOPS. There's no funding to pay for the personnel, storage (ammo is an ORM-D restricted material, gotta be stored securely), or destruction of the MOUNTAINS of ammo likely to result from this idiot wind legislation. I know my agency doesn't have the manpower or storage space to take on this little project, and I suspect most other agencies are in similar straits.

The whole gig might price itself out of existence.

You're sure the expert on such things, Al, and I don't even live in KA so probably shouldn't even comment. But, "shouldn't" never stopped me before. <G>

Seems to me the easy way to enforce such things would be like fishing licenses -- stop by a range or at a hunter's checkpoint and inspect the ammo. I don't know the legislation, but I'm guessing it could be quite a revenue-getter depending on what the fine structure might be. It might even pay for itself. And, fer shore, it will achieve its intended purpose: intimidating gun owners.

PatMarlin

08-24-2005, 04:05 PM

Thanks for words of encouragement Deputy Al.

I've been very down lately, with this bill SB 357, and the fact that the Feds with the MLPA- Marine Life Protection Act are working to shut down Sport fishing on our coast here permanently.

This is the reason I moved out of Sacramento and live here. What will be left? What are we leaving for our kids?

We've got boys and girls dying over in Iraq for those people's freedom and our freedom as Americans for cryin' out loud... and all the while our government is taking away our freedom here at home, and our birthright to hunt and fish as Americans.

I was so worked up yesterday- the only thing that calmed me down was a couple of beers, and I don't even hardly drink.

Our low populated mountain county has but a few Deputy's. They are on the level of Keystone when it comes to law enforcement.

In fact, I'm going to send you a PM regarding a recent incident... :roll:

9.3X62AL

08-24-2005, 06:20 PM

Pat--

I sent back a PM in response. What a PITA!! One problem with living in rural areas is the pay scale of the public service agencies in those areas--far lower than urban/suburban climes. You get what you pay for, in most instances and venues.

SB 357 involves handgun ammo only, and micro-etching handgun chambers to place a unique mark on cases or case heads. The measure ignores two facts--that fired cases have them placed on cases already, and no matter what sort of hi-tech whizbang taggants or imprints appear on whatever casing, ammo, or firearm--we still have to place that firearm in an operator's hand with testimony, physical evidence, and corroboration. It is blue-sky ********.

It will likely result in ending handgun ammo sales in CA, to include cop agencies--since ammo makers have already indicated a strong unwillingness to adapt to this standard. THAT will be funny......seeing EVERY cartridge in police hands made illegal to possess when the law takes effect. There might be exemptions made for public sector usage, but ammo gets old, too.

These laws and others like them are making California into the prototypical nanny state, and will hasten my departure forthwith. What idiocy.

grumble

08-24-2005, 06:40 PM

I hope you don't me joining in. Embarassed by my ignorance of CA's SB357, I googled it.

Looks like it is being delayed until next year for "more work" in committee. As written, it would take effect in July 2007. There is a lot of powerful opposition, so it really doesn't look likely to become law.

As I read the bill, it applies only to handgun ammo made or imported into the state for distribution and sale. It didn't mention handloading for personal use. But, woe be onto anone who gives the guy at the next station at the range a round to try out. But, if it were by some chance to become law, it would be real trouble for anyone selling or distributing unserialized handgun ammo. One count of the offence for each 50 rounds, and fines of $500-$1000 for the first offense, much more for subsequent offenses.

Law enforcement agencies are excluded.

It also specifically excludes boolits for muzzleloaders.

I'd suggest that this bill will never become law, not even in Kalifornistan.

PatMarlin

08-24-2005, 08:20 PM

I'm a native and I love California. Not it's wacos, or polititians.

I own some beautiful remote property here- bordering miles of national forests, but I gotta tell you- I wish I would have bought in Oregon now... and still might just do that ... :roll:

I want to learn and get into horses and/or mules so I can just packin, and not be bothered. They're closing all the access for 4x4's, eventhoug I can drive right in from my place. I'm sure a heliocopter would probably fly over and bust me... :shock:

carpetman

08-24-2005, 08:31 PM

Pat Martin---You want to learn or get into horses or mules. Now if it were sheep a moderator right here on this board that is from Montana could help you---telll you EVERYTHING you want to know. Rabbits--don't know if he has them figured out or not but he's been working on it since he talked to the guys from Australia.