22hornet cast whisper load?

[SCHUETZENBOOMER]

I recently caved to a lifelong dream of owning a .22 Hornet and bought one of the 77/22 Ruger target versions with the Green Mountain stock. I am looking to shortcut the learning curve as much as possible to develop a good “whisper” load. Any suggestions for the Lyman #225438 mold are appreciated.
I have a Lyman 44gr #225438 mold on order and intend to open it up to remove the gas check and allow enough material for the base band to be fully sized to .225”. This should end up producing a 45-46gr boolit. The first thing I did was a trigger job taking the nearly 5# stock trigger down to a crisp 2# and a couple oz. I bought 100pcs of Privi brass, as that is all that is currently available. I also bought some 45gr Speer spritzer SP’s for fire-forming the new cases. Loaded up 100 rounds with 9.5gr of Re7 with the J-words .010” into the lands, and CCI SPP’s. This load chrono’d 1711fps. Having read mixed reviews on this rifle on the internet, I was anxious to see just how this particular rifle might perform. I mounted a 6-18X Redfield and off to the range on Sunday…….
WOW is all I can say! Not sure that I ever remember having an initial load perform this well. I was getting ¾” groups at 25 yards. I “got serious” with seeing what I could do @ 50 yards and was shocked to shoot (4) 5-shot groups that I could easily cover with a dime! One showed (3) ragged holes with a .204” spread. I don’t think that I have ever had this much fun (and smiles) shooting a rifle. Now, I am really anxious to get the mold and make some whisper loads. My main intent is to make some deadly accurate, nearly silent loads to launch off the back deck and not offend rural neighbors. Powder choice is not a problem. I am intrigued with 5744 for some reason. Anyone tried this yet? Suggestions greatly appreciated.

MikeC

[KCSO]

My back yard load is just a primer and a 22 pellet in the case neck. For a 22 short load a 45 grain cast bullet and 1.5 grains of Bullseye should do the trick.

[Larry Gibson]

I suggest not altering the mould. Cast some out of 20-1 alloy, TL lightly with LLA. Load over 1gr Bullseye and work up .2 gr at a time until the velocity hits 1050 fps or accuracy goes south. You've an excellent mould, it's not broke so don't fix it as it may not be necessary. My own 225438 shoots very well subsonic sans GCs in my 4Hor ets plus numerous others.

Larry Gibson

[john hayslip]

Saw a suggestion sometime ago that made sense. As the case is so small a pistool primer will give better groups- haven't tried it in mine but will.

[leadman]

700X works good for light loads also in my 22 K-Hornet.
I have a pellet case converted to shotgun primer for my 223 Contender 23" and it shoots 1 hole at 15 yards for about 5 shots. The primer fouling is very nasty stuff to clean out. It may work better in the Hornet being a smaller case.

[sackot]

I've recently been on the same quest.

I have NOE 225107 and Lyman 225438 (new manufacture).

The 107 is working better for me than the 438, but I believe this is because the mould is better. My 438 took a lot of TLC to close together cleanly so it would cast without whiskers. I took the GC shank off one of the cavities (unfortunately I dinged the rim slightly while doing this, and had to skim the surface of the mould so the bullet is now slightly shorter). I also took a fair time flattening the base of the sprue cutter. After all this work I hoped for great things, but it now casts oval bullets, about .223 x .225, wider at the seam. I've started cautiously lapping it, but have a suspicion that I'm enlarging the ovality as well as the overall dimensions. I'm trying to size to .225.

My initial loads for both moulds were 2.0gr of Red Dot. This gave me 1,200 for the 438 and 1,400 for the 107. Reduced the charges to get subsonic, 1.6gr for 438, 1.5gr for 107. The groups got much worse and the SDs more or less doubled. I got some Titegroup to try, same phenomenon plus some squibs, all squib bullets left the barrel but were dead silent or just went "phut". Hypothesized that the problem was low load density, have obtained some Trail Boss and tried it at official starting load of 2.7gr, but no opportunity yet to work down to subsonic.

Quickload says the pressures will be stupidly low for the loads I'm trying, so perhaps I should not be suprised if they don't burn well. QL is not predicting my velocities too well, so the pressure predictions are probably off too, but I think the numbers were in the range 4-6000psi.

It must be possible to do this, it seems to be just replicating 22lr, so the only real obstacle I can think of is the larger case capacity. There is a place in Germany that sells machined, low-capacity Hornet cases, but the cost was something like 10eur each, and he didn't answer an email (perhaps because I could only write in English) so have not pursued that.

I'm after MOA or less, best loads so far were 1.5MOA at 1,400fps, and worse/inconsistent for subs.

[303Guy]

Apparently the small case capacity gives rifle primers too much pressure which unseats the boolit before proper ignition, hence the pistol primers. Try to find the least powerful primers. However, for fast powders like bullseye this may make no difference. I used Federal primers and a compressed load of Lil'Gun for max performance with 55gr bullets with no neck sizing and got pretty good accuracy. Subsonic is just something I never tried. I have a 55 gr FN mold and I'm not sure those will stabilize at subsonic in a 16 twist.

[Digital Dan]

Don't alter the mould.

Somewhere around 1.5 gr of Bullseye will give you velocities in the subsonic range.

Never found success with SPP in the Hornet.

[MarkP]

My back yard load is just a primer and a 22 pellet in the case neck. For a 22 short load a 45 grain cast bullet and 1.5 grains of Bullseye should do the trick.
Ditto works well (Primer and 22 Air rifle pellet) I also used small charges of Red Dot with cast and the Hornady 45 gr Bee bullet looks like a baby XTP pistol bullet. I do not have my notes handy but 2.7 to 3 gr was around 1,700 fps. 1.5 to 1.8 was subsonic in my 20" Ruger slight pop similar to a wimpy cap gun, almost silent in my M 70 with 24" bbl.
I had a load that was right at 650 ft/s these were dead silent. Since they were so quiet I would check the bbl after each shot thinking I stuck a bullet. Bumped it up to 1,000 fps to be safe. These were with the Jacketed Bee bullet. I killed at bat in my house that flew down my chimney with one. I was single at the time!

[Digital Dan]

Probably will stabilize a 55 LFN.

[Larry Gibson]

1.7 gr Bullseye with SP primer under a non GC'd 225438 stays subsonic in my Hornets.

Larry Gibson

[bobthenailer]

Try 231 powder 4.1 grs @1400 fps to 4.8 grs @ 1600 fps, with a 55 gr bullet, a real tack driver ! use Small pistol primers. out of my 2 hornet pistols with 10 inch barrels.

[Three44s]

Try 231 powder 4.1 grs @1400 fps to 4.8 grs @ 1600 fps, with a 55 gr bullet, a real tack driver ! use Small pistol primers. out of my 2 hornet pistols with 10 inch barrels.

Just when I think this thread can't get any better ....... this comes along!

Thanks Btn!!

One question ........ Is this cast or j-words?

I have one 'Tender in 10" in Hornet but have not cast yet. Been trying some 55 gr. FMJ's and Lil'gun. Though I have a group that's decent at 100 yds. .... others were not that good and my thought is the barrel needs to be clean ..... I bought it used recently and have just been shooting it as received. Yes, shame on me!

I have not noticed any sideways slugs so the slow "16" twist is not hurting me thus far.

Judging from this thread, and the OP's very good results, I'd say this .22 Hornet experience is going to be golden for me. Why did I wait so long???? LOL!

Best regards

Three 44s

[Hamish]

Too weird...... Was discussing looking forward to the MP Heavy Nato 75gr. mould to develop a "Triple 7" load, (75gr boolit, 700X powder, at 700fps), in a 10" Hornet specifically for under 25 yard lights out coon load.

Mr. Bill and Dolly seemed enthusiastic about some parallel load development at their range too,,,,,,

[Three44s]

Hamish,

........... 'cause great minds think alike!

Best regards

Three 44s

[barrabruce]

I bought a heap of srp cheap that been stored?? and how long????.

I was getting weird sounds from normal loads so I tried the 22 pellet trick in mine.

Sounded real good to about the 5-6 shot...was having a ball till one went CRACK.

Promptly remembered that I read you should clean your barrel as the primer products can build up increasing pressure with the fouling. (which is pretty bad).

There was a tool you could buy with a primer deprimer nutcracker type thing that had a protrution that you could increase the pellets base out with.

I was using a tapered something..probably a pen tip or such.
Maybe I finally got a real good seal.

hope it helps

Barra

[w30wcf]

Try 231 powder 4.1 grs @1400 fps to 4.8 grs @ 1600 fps, with a 55 gr bullet, a real tack driver ! use Small pistol primers. out of my 2 hornet pistols with 10 inch barrels.

In my Winchester '43 while testing smokeless loads to get the equivalent of the old .22 W.C.F. (parent case of the .22 Hornet) which launched 45 gr bullets at around 1550 f.p.s.
Bullet - 225438 - 47 grs. w.w. +2& tin
Primer - CCI 500 small pistol

3.3 / 231 - 1,568 f.p.s. (24" barrel) gave good accuracy - 5/8 - 3/4" groups @ 50 yards

On the lighter side
2.5 / Trailboss - 1,163 f.p.s.

I would also suggest not modifying the mold.
Awhile back I shot some 225438 and NEI 45 gr bullets without the g.c.
2.0 / 231 - shot some nice clusters @ 50 yards.
I did not chronograph the load but suspect around 1000-1100 f.p.s.

w30wcf-

[Pakprotector]

Y'all with the pellet loads may find better results with a heavy pellet. Also a larger diameter one. The Korean air rifle pellets are nearly 50% heavier. Eun Jin domed ones at 28 and change grains come to mind.
cheers,
Douglas

[dudel]

Saw a suggestion sometime ago that made sense. As the case is so small a pistool primer will give better groups- haven't tried it in mine but will.

My Handi-Rifle in 22 Hornet shoots very well with a 22 pellet and SP primer. Didn't even have to change the flash hole like I did when shooting rubber bullets.

[dudel]

[QUOTE=barrabruce;2376587

There was a tool you could buy with a primer deprimer nutcracker type thing that had a protrution that you could increase the pellets base out with.

I was using a tapered something..probably a pen tip or such.
Maybe I finally got a real good seal.

hope it helps

Barra[/QUOTE]

You could use a Lee handloader to deprime and prime 22 Hornet. Inexpensive, small and gets the job done.

[SCHUETZENBOOMER]

I finally got a chance to chrono some light loads last night. Accuracy was nothing to brag about, but it’s a start. All shooting was done at 40yards and in (10) shot strings. Barrel was cleaned between strings. All loads were with Privi brass already fireformed to my chamber, Lyman #225438, BHN 15, non- checked and tumble lubed with LLA and CCI500’s. All loads seated to just touch lands @ 1.710" OAL.

Load B: 0.9gr Unique, 655 avg, 54 spread, 19.3 std dev, 2” group
Load C: 0.8gr Unique, 622 avg, 63 spread, 19.2 std dev, 1 ¾” group
Load D: 0.7gr Unique, 546 avg, 36 spread, 10.7 std dev, 1 ¾” group
Load E: 3.0gr 5744, 731 avg, 58 spread, 22.2 std dev, 2” group

As a side note....I was shocked that even Load D @ 546fps fully penetrated a Douglas Fir 2" x 10" backer @ 40 yards. I am still baffled by this.

[Sensai]

Just an aside, but Rem 6 1/2 primers are the most accurate that I've found for the Hornet. If you can find them, that is. Second best has been Winchester standard small pistol. Crimping has a big effect on accuracy, but it's gun dependant. It helps with some guns and hurts with others. I've been trying to figure out why for years, no luck yet. I absolutely love this chambering in rifles. You can load it from mimicking a 22LR to near 222 velocity, and it behaves relatively well at them all.

[SCHUETZENBOOMER]

I have an "M" die on order as I know I was wiping out some size on seating the boolits. I shoot this rifle as a single shot anyway.

[koehlerrk]

I'll agree on the small pistol primer for the Hornet... my groups went from 2" at 100 yards to just under and inch with that change. Try it, won't be any worse than rifle primers, and just might be better.

For my primer and pellet loads, I use a small rifle magnum primer and no powder. Super quiet, so much that I can shoot them in the back yard without the neighbors knowing... and I live in town. Well, the edge of town, there's a cornfield behind my yard, so I have a semi-safe place to shoot, at least stuff that's at airgun velocity.

[SCHUETZENBOOMER]

I have been using SPP all along. I have not shot a cast group yet under 1 3/4" at 40yards. I did recieve my "M" die and loaded a duplicate load to B and C (4) posts up. Exact same results...2" groups. Starting a new thread on bullet hardness and will keep this one going on loads and results.