NRA 50/50 question.

[S.R.Custom]

Got my Alox (Xlox, actually) in the mail, and the half dozen or so toilet bowl rings are ready for meltin'... but I have a question. Is 50/50 the best formulation, or is there an advantage to using more (or less) Alox in the mix?

[44woody]

supermag I have made alot of 50/50 lube I always use bees wax it is a better carrier of the alox than the wax rings you have mentioned there is a man in swapin and salin that has bees wax for sale for a real cheep price or pm me I have a little I can spare :castmine: 44Woody

[Lloyd Smale]

I think it was lars that told me that all you need is 40 percent alox. Ive done some experimenting and couldnt tell the difference between using 40 and 50. What i like to do is mix it at 40 percent but replace about 1/3 of the beeswax with magma blue or red rooster to firm it up a little. I store a pile of bullets in the barn and 5050 is a little soft for the summer heat for storage. Ive also tried replacing 1/2 the beeswax with lars red corduba and it worked great too. It looks like some kind of crap youd get out of a swamp but lubes real well.

[Jim]

Years ago when I started shooting a M/L, I checked into toilet rings. The MSD page said "petrolatum wax".

[Taylor]

I at one time,years ago,made/lubed some pillow tacking for my Kentucky. It has worked really well and I still have some left. But-- it was bees wax! Recently I called a company that makes the toilet rings,because of how the label read. I was told that there was no bees wax in their product and no one use it anymore,Everything now is petroleum based. Buy the bees wax.

[S.R.Custom]

All: Thanks for the heads-up on the toilet bowl rings. I've been in the construction business for a lot of years, and just took it for granted that they were still made of beeswax. You know, they looked like beeswax, felt like beeswax... [smilie=1:

Lloyd: I've got some Rooster HVR and was considering stiffening up the mix a bit. In using Rooster in your mix, do you have to use a heater? While I'd like to stiffen up the NRA 50/50, I don't want to have to resort to a heater...

[Lloyd Smale]

I live in northern michigan and between the weather and the fact that my star has a extended lube resivour that holds about 4 sticks of lube i about allways have to use a heater to some extent no matter what lube i use.
All: Thanks for the heads-up on the toilet bowl rings. I've been in the construction business for a lot of years, and just took it for granted that they were still made of beeswax. You know, they looked like beeswax, felt like beeswax... [smilie=1:

Lloyd: I've got some Rooster HVR and was considering stiffening up the mix a bit. In using Rooster in your mix, do you have to use a heater? While I'd like to stiffen up the NRA 50/50, I don't want to have to resort to a heater...

[ssn vet]

can ya pan lube with the 50/50 mix?

where can ya get straight alox? I've only seen the 50/50 pre-mix

[Bula]

Pan lubing may be difficult due to the softness of 50/50,but probably possible.

[wiljen]

The original 50/50 Lube was made with Alox 2138F which is no longer available.

The current substitute is Alox 350. According to a rep with Lubrizol the difference between the two products is that 2138F as 350 with 14% Paraffinolic wax added.

I make my 50/50 now by the following formula to approximate the old stuff

49% beeswax
43% Alox 350
7% Paraffin
1% Ivory soap (grated)

The soap adds sodium stearate and helps up the melting point slightly.

[Lee]

For those of us wishing to roll our own;

1. I assume the percentages posted here refer to weight?? (not volume??)
(Sorry the dumbest question is the one not asked)

2. Anyone know a good cheap source for the (A)Xlox ??

Thanks...................Lee:wink:

[ssn vet]

thanks for the detailed responses......

I figured that since I'm just starting out, rather than mix my own, I'd try something "off the shelf" and ordered a couple sticks of the Javelina Alox from Midway.

Will be curious to see how soft it is.

[wiljen]

For those of us wishing to roll our own;

1. I assume the percentages posted here refer to weight?? (not volume??)
(Sorry the dumbest question is the one not asked)

2. Anyone know a good cheap source for the (A)Xlox ??

Thanks...................Lee:wink:

Yes it is by weight.

Lars (Lar45) I believe sells alox 350 by the quart. Last I checked a couple of others people were selling it on ebay too but I'd give whitelabel (LAR) the first crack as he's a member here and a good guy to deal with.

[Lloyd Smale]

I got a gallon of 350 from lars his prices are real good. Ive also got a still sealed gallon can of 2138 and agree with wijen that it does seem a little harder. I also had 3/4s of a gallon of a can marked 606 alox that was sold to me at the same time as the 2138 and was told it was the same thing. Anyone know for sure what it is and if its the same.

[utk]

Lee cuts Alox 606 with mineral spirits and call it Lee Liquid Alox...

Urban

[RU shooter]

can ya pan lube with the 50/50 mix?

where can ya get straight alox? I've only seen the 50/50 pre-mix
SSN Vet. If your shootin at vel. below 1600 or so a simple effective mix of Bees wax and simple vasoline I believe I used 3:1 mix works very well for pan lubing. above that I start to get grey in the barrel and use a mix of the above with 50% Lar's Carnuba Red added in with it and pan lube with it or use his 2500+ with a little extra bees wax mixed in All three work very well for pan lubing and accuracy is dead even with any of the three mixes.

[Ricochet]

Lee cuts Alox 606 with mineral spirits and call it Lee Liquid Alox...
Lubrizol cuts it themselves. LLA is Lubrizol's Alox 606-55. 55% Alox, 45% mineral spirits. There's a 70% version, too, more viscous.

[wiljen]

I got a gallon of 350 from lars his prices are real good. Ive also got a still sealed gallon can of 2138 and agree with wijen that it does seem a little harder. I also had 3/4s of a gallon of a can marked 606 alox that was sold to me at the same time as the 2138 and was told it was the same thing. Anyone know for sure what it is and if its the same.

606 is not the same thing as 350 or 2138f. If 606 is cut approx 50/50 with 142 solvent (also known as high flash point oderless mineral spirits) it makes LLA. I researched it for the group buy awhile back. Straight 606 requires a lot of heat to melt so it has to be melted and then let cool as you add the solvent. Be very careful as 606 can easily be heated above the flashpoint of standard paint thinner causing a danger of flashback when adding spirits.

[whisler]

Wiljen: I believe you will find that the solvent is actually 140 Solvent and is a petroleum distillate (like mineral spirits) with a 140 deg F flash point but it is not odorless. I used a lot of that solvent when I formulated oil-based paint.

[Lloyd Smale]

could the 606 be combined with bees wax to make a lube? Im not a big fan of tumble lube and a guy gave me a few cases of small bottles and it will last me a lifetime of tumble lubeing. Sure would like to find something productive to do with it.

[ssn vet]

O.K.

I plead ignorant....what exactly is Lar's Carnuba Red?

somethink you mix...per Lar's formula?

or something you buy from Lar's?

Same question for speed green?

I feel like I need to join the secret society to learn the hidden recipe and ritual for mixing :)

[Lloyd Smale]

Lars sells the lube allready made. Its a steal for what he sells it for. If it werent for the fact I enjoy making my own i wouldnt bother as i doubt if i save much money making it.

[dromia]

Links to Glenn Larsen's White label Lubes including Carnauba Red and Xlox along with Dan's Bull shop products including Speed Green and his must have Bull Plate mould lubricant are at the bottom of the page, scroll down, browse and have your wallet ready. :-D

[utk]

could the 606 be combined with bees wax to make a lube? Im not a big fan of tumble lube and a guy gave me a few cases of small bottles and it will last me a lifetime of tumble lubeing. Sure would like to find something productive to do with it.

I actually melted beeswax with Alox 606-55 (Lee Liquid Alox) and it looked allright then, haven't tried it in a lubesizer though. Used 50/50 by volume and it was soft.

Went and had a look in the glass jar today, and now it looks dried-up and has cracked so I guess all the solvent has evaporated so the beeswax content now is too high.

So, if I wanted to try this once again, I would use roughly 2 parts LLA to 1 part beeswax and let the solvent "boil off" for an hour or so in a double boiler (to avoid overheating).

/Urban

[utk]

Read this thread about the diff between 2138F and 350:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=106218#post106218

I had this text on file:

ALOX LUBE
Alox lube is half alox 2138F-a commercial lubricant-and half beeswax. This is the NRA formula that Col. Harrison came up with many years ago. It is available from several manufacturers including Lee, Lyman and Javelina.

Lee and Lyman make liquid Alox, and it works well.
From Ken Mollohan

The formula for Alox 2138F (no longer available) is as follows:

Material Wt %
Melt in a double boiler:
Alox 350 7.00 (The exact amount isn’t critical)
Slowly stir in
Petrolite C-700 3.00 (Microcrystalline wax)
Blend until fully melted and dissolved.
Add slowly with good mixing:
Alox 350 90.00 (To a total of 97 parts Alox 350)
Blend until uniform. 100.00 Alox 2138F

To make the NRA lube, you can now add 100 parts weight of melted clean, pure yellow beeswax to the preceding.

The NRA lube can be molded as you may desire. I’ve found it convenient to just pour it into small cans or even muffin tins. When I need to refill a sizer, it’s simple enough to set the can (or a muffin sized block in an aluminum measuring cup) in simmering hot water to melt the lube, and pour it into the sizer. Allow to cool well before using.

[wiljen]

Wiljen: I believe you will find that the solvent is actually 140 Solvent and is a petroleum distillate (like mineral spirits) with a 140 deg F flash point but it is not odorless. I used a lot of that solvent when I formulated oil-based paint.

In all fairness nope, it is 142 solvent and is the oderless stuff. I was looking at the can when I wrote it. I'm familiar with 140 and have used it too, but the MSDS for 606-55HF which is what lee repackages lists the solvent flashpoint as 142 degrees. I'm sure 140 solvent will work, it'll just give your LLA a slightly different smell is all.

Wiljen

[ssn vet]

O.K. slap me silly....

it's the second time now that I've asked where to find something and it's link is at the bottom of the home page.....

[S.R.Custom]

That's why you're a "boolit bub." :mrgreen:


Well, this is all pretty interesting. So if I take a quart of Lar's Xlox, mix it with a quart of beeswax, and throw in a stick of Rooster HVR (to compensate for the missing wax from the original Alox formulation), I'll have as close an approximation as is possible to the original NRA 50/50. Cool. :-D

[whisler]

Wiljen:
Sorry, I thought you had made a typo and meant 140 solvent. I am not familiar with the odorless version or its nomenclature.