Advice please - troublesome child.

[JeffinNZ]

Righto. In our street there is a little girl slightly younger than Kiera. I guess she is 7 1/2. Nice kid but screwed up family. She is the eldest of three with the other two being preschool. Her mother is a 'manager' at a strip joint in the city and works nights. Her father doesn't seem to do much but play computer games and yell at the kids.

The child in question likes Kiera and often comes over to play. She is polite and well behaved, quiet but not withdrawn. We have never had cause to be upset with her when she visits though she does want to come around an awful lot and given the circumstances at home I can't say I am surprised.

Of late there have been problems beyond your home. At school the girl is trying to monopolise Kiera's attention and many of Kiera's other friends will not have anything to do with her. Kiera was recently accused of making a prank phone call to a friend's house where a parent answered but she denies this and we have no reason not to believe her in this situation. We believe the perpetrator may have been our little friend from down the street. Kiera is uncomfortable being manipulated away from other friends and we don't like our child being implicated in events that do not likely involve her.

Sheryl and I have talked out the situation and she is in favour of banning the child from visiting and having Kiera stay away from her. Other parents have done so. I am far from happy with that scenario. My feelings are that this child needs some support and she is looking for leadership and someone to cling to. I want to invite her around this weekend, per usual, and all of us sit down and have a good talk about what behaviour is acceptable and what isn't. I want her to know that we like her coming around and that she can feel safe here. What I said to Sheryl was this. Think about all the kids that have run off the rails over the years. How many could have been saved if only someone had taken an interest in them and showed some love, respect and guidance. Turning our back is not the answer and that is where I believe our society is falling over. Too much 'not my problem'.

What do you guys think please?

[SteveUSP]

You have quite a problem there. I agree with you, that the stability of your family might be the best thing in this poor girls life. I also agree with your wife that the best thing for your girl is to not associate with her. In the end your primary responsibility is to your own family. As sad as it is for that girl, you have to worry about your own first. If you could still welcome her to visit, but not as often, that might be a solution that helps her, without smothering your daughter. The fact that you care, leads me to believe that you will have a positive impact in this girls life, but you can't save everyone.

[Lloyd Smale]

banning friends rarely works in my experience. My son is learning disabled and when he was younger not many kids wanted to hang out with him. Most of those that did were simular to what your seeing. Banning didnt work. What worked best was supervision. The kid that he got along with best wasnt a bad kid but his parents were real wack jobs and i was real nervous about my son going over there so we incouraged the kid to come here and only when my wife or I could be right there with them.

[Curlymaple42]

I think you got it right about having a sit down chat. Your primary responsibility is with your family, but your feelings about this girl are spot on and making the attempt with your daughter's blessing is a good decision. Good luck and I will pray this works out for the trouble girl/family. It could have lasting impact in a positive way.

[Wal']

"I want to invite her around this weekend, per usual, and all of us sit down and have a good talk about what behaviour is acceptable and what isn't. I want her to know that we like her coming around and that she can feel safe here."


You said it all there, your family, your rules!

[lavenatti]

Are the girls parents even aware she is a bit of an outcast? Talking to them or inviting them to a birthday party where they can see what's going on may wake them up. Lazy parents usually care, they are just in the dark about what's going on with their own children.
Asking other parents to have the girl come over and play once in a while can help with the obsession she currently has with your daughter. No reason to try and help by yourself. Speaking from personal experience - you're more likely to get help from other fathers, mothers are far less likely to help other children if there is a possible detrimental effect to their own.
Dads are almost always willing to take another kid for ice cream.

[Smoke4320]

visit with total supervision.. She needs good examples and your child needs to not be steared in the wrong direction

[Four-Sixty]

From my experience, put your own Daughter's needs first!

My parents took in a friend of my youngest Sister. We even added walls in our home to make her very own room. This Girl basically had no Mom, or Dad. While we all got close, she still smoked weed and did as she pleased despite my Parent's efforts. In the end, she turned out OK. But, to this day, my Dad laments the decision as he feels that he put his own Daughter second and is not as close to her as a result.

I would not discourage you from parenting this girl, just make sure your own Daughter always knows she is #1!

Oh, and you better back up your Wife!

[btroj]

This is when you stress to your daughter what is right and what is wrong.

My daughter didn't always make friends with the best or brightest. Now she is in college and almost 20. She has finally begun to understand what we were telling her all those years and makes far better choices. In ways the poor friend choices earlier in life helped because she looks back and realizes how screwed up some of those kids were and sees where they are today. M

Kids as kids. Sometimes the more you try to keep them away from something the more they want it. Do the best you can to instill values and morals and hope for the best.

[nodda duma]

Might be worth sharing your concerns with the folks at school. If the problems are there then it's worth getting the teacher involved. Not to rat out the kid but to make sure she's not losing out. They can keep an eye out and you can use the teacher as a vehicle to bring the issues to the other parents attention.

[country gent]

I would sit down with the heart to heart talk. MAybe a chat withthe parents, this will be very touch and youll have to go by feel here as no parents want to hear their children have issues. They are more than likely to get definsive and place you to blame. But the little girl needs some guidence as it sounds. Maybe some day get togethers with other friends there also. Broaden her base of friends some. Shes lonely and looking for direction shes not getting at home more than likely. But you also need to watch for behaviours that are dangerous. Chances are at the young age shes in charge of the house, fixing meals, laundry, watching the other kids. She probably hasnt had a lot of interaction with others her own age either. You daughter can and will do whats right butmay need to haave some help. Talk to your daughter explain your concerns, ask her "views and impressions she has concerning this girl. Your daughter may know more than you think and give you aheads up on what your dealing with.

[Oreo]

I agree with allowing directly supervised visits but also limiting them to a couple days a week so that your daughter has the opportunity to be with other friends. I wouldn't let my daughter anywhere near their house though. Nothing but trouble over there.

You're not going to be able to save this girl. She's not old enough to really begin to separate from her parents on her own and her parents aren't likely to let you take her in. That means the best you can do is support from a distance as long as its not detrimental to your daughter but don't hesitate to separate your family from this girl.

[km101]

Your plan sounds good. Be sure to let her know that breaking the rules/limits that you have set will result in not getting to come to your home. All children need some rules or limits to guide them and it sounds as if this girl has none. You can be a big part in helping this girl "stay on the rails".

But you cannot let her jeopardize your home and family, if she does not respond to your rules you will have to take appropriate action.

[Wayne Smith]

Your plan is good, but only a start. Assess her response to intervention and correction, especially her attitude. Assess her continued appropriatness as time goes on. Contact her parents, if you haven't already, simply because she has spent so much time in your home. Let them know your concerns and what you plan to do before you do it. You never know what a child will tell her parents after an intervention! You do not want them as enemies, this will be the worst thing for the child. You do not want them to missunderstand what you are trying to do, either. A child's perception of what you say will frequently lead to missunderstanding.

If you continue with an ongoing relationship with this girl realize that you are involved with a relationship with her family. If you are not willing to do this do not continue with her.

[mroliver77]

My brain and my heart are telling me two different things. Basically the differing opinions that have been posted. I do believe we pin labels on people all too easy.

I have been appalled at what some children have seen and know about things that they should not. This will be transmitted to your child.

I know you are a good man Jeff and will handle it correctly!
I will pray for you and the situation.
Jay

[unclogum bill]

Say , just say , perhaps this girl grows angry one day and says to behaved inappropriate. Can you see a recovery from that. In forty years of living with my wife, raising two daughters I have come to believe my wife's instincts about people trump mine .
My youngest took to hanging with such a troubled child. At 15 she was arrested for shop lifting. Discovered the troubled one had such offenses a mile long. Wife did the forbidding and it worked, Mine did well and works as a licensed social worker these days . As someone else posted "you can't save everyone", yes , take care of your own.

[Hardcast416taylor]

The thing about these "parents with kids" is they enjoy making the kids, then don`t care how they later grow up. I agree that supervision with a bit of guidance added is a positive thing for this girl.Robert

[bosterr]

I used to live beside 2 pairs of parents (they were related) that didn't care one bit where their kids were or what they were doing. The kids were into vandalizing and ganging up on other kids (my house and my kids mostly). When one on one my boys took care of business, but that wasn't always the case. After talking to the parents and even talking to the police, I wrote the parents off as worthless.

It sounds like your situation with the parents could be the same, except I think your 7 1/2 year old neighbor could use a bit of guidance from you and yours. Invite her over, talk to her and give her another chance or three. Be cautious of her being a bad influence on your daughter though. Just my 2 cents.

[Ehaver]

I think that you should talk to you Daughter and see what she has to say. Does she want to to talk to her? or does she just want out of the friendship? In both ways you can help. Just see what your girl says and maybe that can help direct you.


Edited to add: be careful talking with this kid alone, or being alone with the kid. She is already showing manipulative tendincies.

[smokeywolf]

Mostly great advice. I think both you and your wife are on the right track. Combining the two different approaches might be your best bet. Have that good sit-down heart-to-heart with her. Make it clear in no uncertain terms what is and is not acceptable behavior and tell her clearly that although everyone deserves a 2nd chance, beyond that she will not be allowed to call or visit your house or children again.
As far as talking to the parents, if they are poor parents, they're worthless people too. Talking with them will most likely be counterproductive.

As a final thought, with all due respect to the folks who have offered all their advice, Often times your best bet is to listen to your gut. Follow your gut instinct.

smokeywolf

[wv109323]

Of course the win-win situation is to parent both children so that they are productive and responsible adults. I don't think there is a right or wrong choice at this point. You need to try to instill your values on the friend of your daughter if that is possible. This can also be an example to your daughter to reach out to the less fortunate.
I would tell the girl what her expected behavior should be and what you will not tolerate in your home. If she does not act and behave as you want then you must then distance yourself with your daughter from this girl. The separation will be because of her actions and not yours. If the young girl does respond and she is "moldable" then you can reward her for her obedience.
The girls behavior was probably learned from her parents/home situation and that is all she knows. I reckon what I am trying to say if you can be a role model and the girl responds it is worth your efforts. I took on a marriage that involved three teen-age step children. At times I thought the situation was hopeless and at times I was ready to throw in the towel. The transformation took many more years than I would have liked but I am proud of all three and their accomplishments as adults. You must be a steadfast and unwavering role model for it to work.

[Jailer]

You have a very big heart to stick with being a mentor to this girl. She obviously needs some good moral bearing in her life. But you've got to take the right approach. What you have here is a good teaching moment for your child. Your child has been taught the difference between right and wrong. What you need to do now is teach your daughter how to manage her freindships. You can't step in and try to manage them for her, that will only backfire and you're daughter won't learn a thing.


I want to invite her around this weekend, per usual, and all of us sit down and have a good talk about what behaviour is acceptable and what isn't.

Your idea is good but this is what has to come from your daughter. You set expectations of the household and behavior that occurs there. Your daughter needs to be the one setting the boundaries with her friends and the behavior in their interactions. Trust her, she will make good choices. Guide her as she struggles and help keep on path with making proper decisions but let her make them.

[runfiverun]

definately lay down the ground rules and expectations and then enforce them.
she isn't getting this at home.

[JeffinNZ]

Thanks team.

I will talk it over some more with SWMBO and also with Kiera. It's a delicate subject but I hate the thought of a child being turned away on.

[Hickory]

This may to some, seem like a bad comparison, but children need to be raised like you would a puppy.
You need to spend lots of time with them, play with them, love them and teach them right from wrong.
And in return they will love you and try to please you.
This little girl may not be yours, you can in a small way give her some sort of guidance, and let her know that you care about her outcome in life. You never know how much impact you can have in her life.

[Ramar]

Jeff, you spoke of other parents banning the child and that you did not. This is great, but have you considered enlisting the help of the other parents to aid in helping as you are doing. Sometimes just asking for help or feedback from others may get good results and more help is always good. We got to share...

[Linstrum]

First of all, make darned sure your daughter knows she is more important to you than any outsider! That is not negotiable. Any chance of getting the neighbor girl involved in Brownie Girl Scouts/Girl Guides or a children-oriented church activity so the work of helping her can be spread out among several adults? Sounds like she is not getting adequate socializing and is desperately trying to fix it on her own using your family. The old fashioned saying of "idle minds are the devil's playground" is quite true, and structuring her time with good people doing constructive things after school and on weekends may begin to fulfill those of her needs that aren't getting properly met.

When I was in high school 45 years ago my parents worked with a young man who was trying his best to be good even though he was from a horribly abusive family. When kids are actively trying to do the right thing is when you have the best chance to help them, and the young man my parents helped 45 years ago made it with flying colors, so it doesn't always turn out badly. One thing to be careful about nowadays is getting wrongly accused of child molestation, so watch your own backside. Good Luck and thanks for caring!

rl 1,171

[blackthorn]

I wonder how many of the "other" parents who have banned this child from their himes/children did so because of her mother's association with a strip club? The thought occurred to me that kid should not be held responsible for choices made by her parents, but I suspect (at least in some cases) that is what is happening. A bit of detective work on your part may be needed to find out why this kid in being shunned by her peers at school. Try to have all the facts before you act. Good luck and God bless you for being the kind and caring person you are!

[EDG]

If this child is being neglected by her family you may have a legal obligation to contact Child Protective Services. The father may be addicted to video games and computers and may never be able to parent that child.

[firefly1957]

You have a good handle on things prayers for you and the child.

[Stephen Cohen]

I have been in this situation a couple times myself, a lot of good advise has been offered already, If I may add, be very careful you are not putting yourself or your family in a nasty position. I myself would have an informal word with your local version of child services, in these days one has to be careful of not being branded a child predator, keep records of who you spoke to and when. It is a sad fact that one has to watch ones back in a case such as this, I applaud your willingness to try and get this child on the right path. As others have said a group meeting and set the rules will go a long way to helping the child.