NOE 311 247Gr. FN Whisper Problem.

[USSR]

Okay, so I have had this mould for some time (the original group buy), and it was always my intention to use it to develop a deer load at 1600 -1800fps for my .30-06. Well, I finally got around to doing some load development, and immediately ran into a problem. The bore rider portion of the bullet measures .303", and require enormous force to close the bolt on a loaded round. The only thing I can think of is to have someone make up a .300" sizer for me so that I can reduce the diameter to .300" or .299" so that the bullet feeds properly, but what a PITA. Any comments or suggestions?

Don

[BK7saum]

Is the nose round at 303? Or narrower across the seam? My boolits from my mold chamber fine. I haven't checked the diameter.

[leadman]

Make sure that the alignment pins are not holding it open just a smidge. Also look for burrs or lead on the faces. If you can't find any reason it would cast this large maybe a change of alloy may help.
I do know the 300 Whisper is throated long for the heavy boolits and the 300 BO is probably the same way. The 30-06 would not be throated like this.

[USSR]

Yeah, the nose is round, and all the bullet noses are .303". Don't really want to change the alloy, such as go with something closer to pure lead that would come out of the mould smaller in diameter, as I heat treat these in order to run them at 1700 - 1800fps and have the hollowpoint function. What about using a sizing die to reduce the bullet nose to it's proper .300" diameter?

Don

[Larry Gibson]

USSR

Are you using a Lyman or RCBS lubrasiser? If so when I get my laptop set up at a hot spot i will post pictures and instructions on modifying an H die for bushings to size the nose. You could get a .300 H die to do it but sometimes the bullet deforms if more than .001 sizing is done at a time.

Larry Gibson

[felix]

Larry, I AM VERY INTERESTED IN THIS PROJECT. Most, if not all boolit molds, produce noses too large for weak feeding auto guns;;;including my recent 6 banger mold, 311299, from Al (NOE). ... felix

If junk lead is out of the question, so is the hobby of casting and handloading, for me especially. ... felix

[MT Chambers]

sell the mold to someone with a .303 Br. and buy one with the right size bore riding section, my .30s can use .301" but no larger.

[USSR]

Are you using a Lyman or RCBS lubrasiser?

Larry,

Using a Lyman 450.

MT Chambers,

Would have no idea before I bought another mould, what size the bullet noses would come out at. This mould is supposed to produce .300" noses, but doesn't.

Don

[Larry Gibson]

Will post pics and information later today.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

I modified a H & I die to use for nose sizing. It is intended to use with Redding NS bushings of the appropriate size. I used a .459 sier because I had an extra one. If noses smaller than .338 are to be sized a .35X would probably be better. The H die is bored out (lathe operation) to + .005 the depth of the bushing heigth and I made mine alittle larger id diameter than the bushing. Reason being the bushing would "float" in the die for better alignment. The top of the "I" die isi truned down to a bit smaller than the smallest nose diameter you intend to size to a heigth of the bushing. I turned the .459 I die to .264 as I intended on sizing some CMs down to .268. A washer with sufficent hole diameter is turned slight smaller than the inside diameter of the sizer retainer nut and also "floats" slightly.

I like to to lightly lube the noses with lanolin or other case lubes and size down in .001 steps. More sizing in one step than that many times deforms the bullet if softer alloys or really long bullets (like the 6.5 CM) are sized. I also size and lube the bullet normally first as nose izing really seats and squares up the GC base. Works very well.

Memory tells me Doc Highwall showed me how to do this. If not then I'd like credit to go where it's deserved? This works very well if one has or gets 2 - 3 sizing bushings of the correct diameters.

Forgot to mention that a nose punch for a SWC is used with a meplat larger than the bullet GC being sized.
Larry Gibson

812788127781276812798128081281

[W.R.Buchanan]

Excellent post Larry.

One could also make a die body with the same OD dimensions as a regular sizing die and make the inside to fit the bushings like you did.

A nose punch with a recess in the face .001-2 bigger than the finished diameter of the base of the boolit would prevent the boolit from bending..

I have a 314299 mould that makes boolits with .302 noses and I would like to size boolits to .311/.300-.0005 to run in my Springfield. This is the way to do that.

Randy

[Wayne S]

USSR,
How many cavities is your mold ? The nose on my 5 cavity is .297-.298. Have you shot many of yours at 50 to 100 yds. ? Your Rifle should have a 1-10 twist ? Just wondering if they are stable at that distance

[USSR]

Wayne S,

PM sent.

Don

[USSR]

The top of the "I" die isi truned down to a bit smaller than the smallest nose diameter you intend to size to a heigth of the bushing. I turned the .459 I die to .264 as I intended on sizing some CMs down to .268.

Larry,

Not quite following this. FWIW, I will be using a .452" sizing die that I have no use for.

Don

[W.R.Buchanan]

USSR: I had to read this several times to get exactly what the process is, and I'm a Machinist. If you go back and re-read it about 10 times you will get the idea. It's all there.

A word to the wise here. NOBODY FULLY UNDERSTANDS EVERYTHING THEY READ THE FIRST TIME THRU, AND
ESPECIALLY ON TECHNICAL TOPICS. YOU MUST READ AND RE-READ UNTIL YOU FULLY UNDERSTAND.

Usually you will get a little more of the picture each time you read thru. Eventually you get the whole picture and the written text makes sense. If it still doesn't, there is a word you don't understand somewhere in the text. You must find it and look it up and figure out how it applies to the idea. Sorry but this is one of the costs of knowledge.

Occasionally you find a word which doesn't make sense even if you look it up. In this case it is either a typo or the guy who wrote it didn't understand what he was talking about well enough to explain it to others, and used a word "HE" didn't understand. This can be problematic!

Debunking someone else's ideas can be difficult especially when they don't know what they want,,, and you don't know how to make it.



As far as the above process goes here it is in other words.


Basically you bore out the top of the sizing die you chose to use until a bushing fits in it about .005 deeper than the bushings length. Also about .005 bigger ID than the OD of the bushings so they will float a small amount.

Obtain the bushings before you do this so you know exactly what size they are.

A washer on top of the bushing that has a bigger hole than the largest part of the boolits and a smaller dia than the ID of the retainer rings under side so it floats as well. This washer prevents the bushing from coming out of the die when you eject the boolit. It is the bushing retainer.

The ejector pin from the original sizing die is turned down on one end so it fits into the bushings you are using, like-.005 under the ID of the bushings. The turned section needs to be long enough to eject the boolit after sizing, but not so long as to stick up too far above the die.

That's it.

Randy

[USSR]

Long post, Randy. All I really needed was this:



The ejector pin from the original sizing die is turned down on one end so it fits into the bushings you are using, like-.005 under the ID of the bushings. The turned section needs to be long enough to eject the boolit after sizing, but not so long as to stick up too far above the die.

Never heard of the ejector rod of the sizing die referred to as an "I" die. Thanks.

Don

[USSR]

I modified a H & I die to use for nose sizing. It is intended to use with Redding NS bushings of the appropriate size.

One more question, Larry. Is the "NS bushings" you refer to the Hardened Steel or Titanium Nitride bushings? Thanks.

Don

[W.R.Buchanan]

USSR: I posted that info mainly to educate the masses that they need to read and re-read technical posts to get the idea fully.

So many people read them thru once and figure they have extracted all that is there.

WE know this is not true from their questions.

Randy

[Larry Gibson]

Glad we got it figured out.

Larry Gibson