Beginner Muzzleloader

[Logan R]

Hey there. This is my first post and I hope some of you boys could help me. I bought a .50 T/C Impact the other day and I bought some of T/C's 240gr cheat shot sabots. Loved them. Very accurate up to 75 yards (At least with my shaky hands.) Anyways, I wanted a larger caliber, but I'm not going to pay $25 for 8 jacketed sabots. So in my haste of wanting to make my own things cheaper, I went ahead and ordered a .451 .50 cal LEE bullet mold (Which also has a round ball) to add to the collection. But I got thinking, I was using .45s in sabots. While I just bought a .50 mold. Do I need a sabot now? Can I even have a sabot? Do I need to patch it? I'm compleatly ignorant on the matter and I'd rather ask people more experienced before I damage my gun, or my face. Any information is welcome and appreciated :-)

[Sweetpea]

Give us the Lee part #, so we know exactly what you ordered.

[mooman76]

Sounds like you ordered the Lee REAL/roundball combo mould. No it doesn't not need a sabot or patch if you got the 50 cal one. The RBs do need a patch. The REAL will go in tight so you need to use soft lead when you cast with it. It fits the barrel as you ram it in. Sometimes it helps to have a over powder wad with the REALs especially in the fast twist inlines. Pick up a BP book if you can and it will help out allot.

[nagantguy]

Over shot wad helps with the reals, and listen to the above advice, cast soft lead as close to pure as you can get with just a little tin for better fill. Otherwise you'll need a five pound dead blow hammer to het them down the barrel. If your rifle has a fast twist rate the round ball will be hard to stabilize. Good luck to you keep is posted and welcome to cast boolits.

[Sergeant Earthworm]

I would suggest getting a copy of the Lyman Black Powder handbook. It doesn't tell you everything but it is a good starting point reference:

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/publications/black-powder.php

Another suggestion: Spend some time looking at old posts in this forum. Although much of it may not apply, you will be amazed at the knowledge and wisdom of the cast boolits crowd.

[Logan R]

Thanks guys. I'll post on the thread later when I get the mold and I'll show the accuracy. Have a good Labor Day.

[OverMax]

If indeed you ordered a Real boolit mold. Although I don't use that boolit myself. I do believe they require some lubing prior to their being shot. Maybe some other member can be more explicit concerning Reals lubing.
Nice little rifle you bought yourself. Should see allot of service from it. Are you intending to scope it Sir?
Just so you know I buy my sabot boolits from (link below) Seem to work well for my application. Nothing fancy just the all lead hollow point ones w/sabot for my 45 cal. One thing I like about PR is their sabots. They are reasonably easy to reload after the rifles been shot. Many other sabot combo's after the first shot seem to require Hulk Hogan to push them down to seat them on their powder charge. No so with PR Bullets. Accurate too. You might consider reading the info PR posted on their web site. Lots of info to digest. Some helpful. Some not so. But its nice to be kept aware and in the know. I hope you have an enjoyable hunt this Fall with your new rifle Sir.

http://www.prbullet.com/index.htm

[Whiterabbit]

I shoot the same 45 cal bullet useful for 45 colt et al in cheap sabots that can be bought for 10 cents a pop in bulk (couple hundred anyways).

No $25 per 15 ct needed here (minus barnes for the condor zone) for genral shooting, and they strike like the hammer of God.

I tried a REAL but it casts too small and my lube was too goey, it was a big inaccurate mess. I'll stick with 45 cal sabots.

[Logan R]

Another question. Would I have to use lube? Or is it unhealthy for the gun to not do so?

[Whiterabbit]

use lube

[IROCZ]

Another question. Would I have to use lube? Or is it unhealthy for the gun to not do so?

Yes, it's necessary. I use T/C bore butter on my .54. I'm looking for something less messy.

[Logan R]

To OverMax, yes I do intend to scope. Very soon hopefully. As for lube, my grandfather used pig lard when he was young (Straight from the pen, no salt or acid). Is that still acceptable?

[mooman76]

Yes, use lube. The easy but messy way is just to wipe a little on with your fingers. I just have a rag handy. Crisco will work if you have some. I use T/C bore butter also. I don't think it's the best but not bad either and it's handy. Comes in a tube and you just squeeze a little out.

[OverMax]

Logan R

As far as boolit lube goes. Many prefer T/Cs bore butter. I don't care for the stuff myself. Once it get a little to warm it so nasty having to deal with it. {I just hate that wintergreen smell most store bought one's have also.} I have been using Ox Yoke Wonder Lube for years until recently. I got a-hold of a fellow here who sells his own version of B/P boolit lube. {RANDYRAT} Really nice stuff. I'm testing some of right now as a favor to him. It hasn't any smell to it what-so-ever. Randyrat's lube would make an excellent pan lube for your purpose of greasing up those Reals of yours. As it has a little more bee's wax in it to stiffen it up some. (I believe?-? not too sure though) Which also helps in the warm weather shooting. And as a patch lube I doubt there are any better ones in the market place. Randyrat also sells the ingredients to make your own lube if you wish too and is quite willing to discuss the subject with you. (mixing up your own batch) Anyhow just a suggestion for you to consider. Oh BTW Randyrat is also a sponsor here. Which lets you know you will be treated right and honestly.

[waksupi]

Something else with Bore Butter. If you shoot in cold weather, you will find after a couple shots, the next load will stop about halfway down the barrel, and you have a tough time getting it on down to the powder.

[Whiterabbit]

since this is a beginner MZ thread discussing inlines, I have to admit to not knowing how to deal with fouling. I shoot a plastic sabot in my inline handi, and I'm not sure where to put lube. On top of the sabot? Then the sabot will blow the lube out. Below the sabot? Then during loading the sabot wipes the bore clean and deposits the lube on top of the powder. Not good, surely.

The only thing that works is of course swabbing between shots. Every shot. That works and isn't a bad habit to be in, but is still swabbing between shots.

[dondiego]

The lube question was related to a Lee REAL bullet which os bore diameter and does require lube but no sabot. I don't know anything about lubing sabots but the REAL bullet does require it.

[Whiterabbit]

yeah, lubing with a PRB or the REAL is straight forward (also the other conicals though I don't use them nor have tried them, but still straightforward). It was the sabots I was asking about as an aside.

[dondiego]

I have read that you do not need to lube sabots but I don't have any experience with them either so don't know if it would be needed or not.

[Whiterabbit]

tried that too, but powder gets real hard, real quick!

[Sergeant Earthworm]

Another question. Would I have to use lube? Or is it unhealthy for the gun to not do so?

Absolutely use lube. I'm another TC bore butter user. There are cheaper alternatives, but BB works just fine. Plus I like the aroma.

Since most of my shooting is preparation for hunting, I swab between shots, the logic being that I don't go hunting with a dirty rifle. Fouling may or may not affect accuracy, depends on the rifle/powder/projectile/humidity but I figure it is a little extra effort that helps eliminate fouling as a variable.

[waksupi]

If you are using Bore Butter, and GOEX, that is a fine combination for stubborn fouling. I absolutely hated how Bore Butter made a barrel hard to clean. I live in a very dry area, that may affect it, though.

[Mike 56]

I tumble lube my Lee Real Bullets Alox lube. In the past i have used Crisco and crisco/bees wax lubes they also work well.

[docone31]

You need some kind of lube. The R.E.A.L. does a great job of pushing the fouling down the bore. I use them to "fresh" while I am shooting.
I did use some lapping compound for lube on the first few. Did great and gave me sharp lands.
For lube, and I use this for all my lubes,
55% beeswax, 45% Crisco, some Marvel Mystery Oil, and some Olive Oil. I melt it up, stir it in, let it cool and see how stiff it is.
Summer down here, it gets loose, but winter, which it does not get actually cold, it is very workable.
You will have to experiment on the Olive Oil, but once you find the numbers, it is good lube.
I use it while sizeing, cleaning and rustproofing, and while loading, both smokeless and black powder.
Good stuff.

[s mac]

since this is a beginner MZ thread discussing inlines, I have to admit to not knowing how to deal with fouling. I shoot a plastic sabot in my inline handi, and I'm not sure where to put lube. On top of the sabot? Then the sabot will blow the lube out. Below the sabot? Then during loading the sabot wipes the bore clean and deposits the lube on top of the powder. Not good, surely.

The only thing that works is of course swabbing between shots. Every shot. That works and isn't a bad habit to be in, but is still swabbing between shots.

I used to shoot saboted bullets, several years, never used any lube on them, never swabbed between shots, no problems. In a hunting situation you need to be careful, to much lube[bore butter] below the boolit can foul your charge resulting in a misfire, no fire.

[quilbilly]

since this is a beginner MZ thread discussing inlines, I have to admit to not knowing how to deal with fouling. I shoot a plastic sabot in my inline handi, and I'm not sure where to put lube. On top of the sabot? Then the sabot will blow the lube out. Below the sabot? Then during loading the sabot wipes the bore clean and deposits the lube on top of the powder. Not good, surely.

The only thing that works is of course swabbing between shots. Every shot. That works and isn't a bad habit to be in, but is still swabbing between shots. You will probably find as I did with sabot that every muzzleloader I have has a different "personality" with sabots. Some like the 1000 Lube (similar to bore butter) on the sabot, some not but the bore gets greased after loading. You have to experiment. None of mine will shoot well if there is grease in the cup for some reason.