.41 Mag mold question...

[Capt. Methane]

I'm looking for something in about 250gr LFNGC and it seems like no one is making anything like that. Well, there's a company in Australia that I sent an email to...

Any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance...

[frkelly74]

There is, or was, available the Ranch Dog 411-265 mold. It is a little fat in the nose for my Ruger but can be made to work. It is a good thumper.

[chuckbuster]

Check with Tom at Accurate Molds

[**oneshot**]

Something like this:

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=41-250V-D.png

[Larry Gibson]

Suggest it would have been easier to just have gotten a .44 magnum to begin with. I have been shooting .41s since the mid '70s BTW. I've found it much easier and better to get .41 than trying to make a .357 into one, trying to make a .41 into a .44 and a .44 into a .454........

Yes I know many like "heavies" in handgun cartridges but in reality the standard weight bullets do just as well for 99.9999% of the game/shooting we do. Probably not the answer you wanted but my suggestion is to use 210-220 gr bullets in the .41 magnum. If more bullet is really needed then step up to the .44 magnum. Don't need a lo of criticism as it is just my opinion and a suggestion which the OP ask for.

Larry Gibson

[ipijohn]

I am from Larry's camp. If you want something bigger get a gun that is designed to shoot a heaver boolit. The 210's I load for my 41's are comparable to the 429421's that I load for my 44's, I just push the 41's a little faster.

[fredj338]

Also visit Mountain Molds, design your own.

[leadman]

I've tried the 250 & 265gr boolits in my 41 SBH Hunter and the gun did not like them. From 230grs to 210grs are accurate and have way less drop.
Saeco has some good designs like the 220gr truncated cone that is gas checked. Tried the RFN they have and it would not drop a boolit large enough so sent the mold back and they sent another just like the first one. Hopefully they are making them to SAAMI specs now
(.411").

[GLynn41]

I have mountain mold .411 255 gr does just fine on deer and boar -and accurate too- mostly still shoot 230gr or so--a self designed Mountain mold in what ever grain you chose will be just fine

[Groo]

Groo here
What gun are you shooting?
If a longer cylinder- a 200 to 220 will work fine, there are some 265gr out there,but if you want a thumper try the SSK 295 gr.
You can get cast boolets from Penn to try and the molde from NOE. I have an original...

[Dan Cash]

I have an LBT that drops somewhere around 250 or so. I gave Veral Smith my chamber measurements and bore measurements. He sent back a mould that drops what ever it was supposed to for diameter and when seated to the crimp groove, the bullet just kisses the chamber throat. I don't drive it very hard but at 40 yards, it hit a muley in the chest and gave him an extra anus. It makes my 57 smith a most serviceable six gun.

[Tatume]

I shoot an LBT 240 grain WFN GC and a PB Accurate Molds 240 grain SWC. Both were cut to fit standard length cylinders such as the Freedom Arms M97. If you have an S&W M57 or Ruger Blackhawk you can specify a longer nose. I have all three and these bullets shoot very accurately in everything.

In response to criticisms of heavy bullets in smaller diameter guns, the ratio of weight to width tells a different story. For example, a 300 grain bullet for the 44 Magnum scales down to a 285 grain bullet for the 41 Magnum. By the same method, a 300 grain 44 Magnum bullet is equivalent in scale to a 250 grain 357 Magnum bullet. It would appear that proponents of the 44 Magnum are using bullets that are grossly out of proportion to the bore. But naturally, I like 44 Magnums too, and regularly shoot bullets of 300 grains. My point is, don't denigrate the 41 Magnum on the basis of being too small for heavy bullets.

[fcvan]

Back in the mid 1970s, dad bought the SAECO 230 SWC Keith style boolit. That boolit shot great through his 4" S&W M57 but was particular about seating depth. If not seated correctly, it was long for the cylinder. Even when crimped into the crimp groove it is too long to work in my Marlin 1894. I ended up buying the SAECO 415 220 TCGC which as cast for me runs 230 grains. Ithas turned out to be my favorite boolit for my Marlin and my 8 3/8" M57. I have 200 and 215 grain SWC molds but my favorite is the 220 TCGC.

[Tatume]

Hello Folks,

I was in a hurry to leave for work this morning. In my haste I said ratio of length to weight, and should have said radius squared to weight. Using radius squared the 300 grain 44 Mag bullet is similar to a 275 grain 41 Mag bullet, and a 210 grain 357 Mag bullet (more precisely 273 & 207 grains). These are much heavier than almost any of us shoot in the smaller revolvers, but nobody thinks twice about 300 grain 44 Mag bullets.

The 240 grain 44 Mag bullet compares to a 41 Mag bullet of 218 grains, so the common 210 grain 41 Mag bullets should be considered light for the caliber (though not by much). By the same comparison, a 165 grain 357 Mag bullet is about on par with a 240 grain 44 Mag bullet.

In my opinion, we are loading our 41 and 357 Magnum revolvers too lightly. For hunting purposes I strongly favor the 170 grain Keith bullet in 357 Magnum (and Maximum), and a 240 grain Keith or WFN bullet for the 41 Magnum (which compares favorably with a 265 grain 44 Mag bullet). It is not at all difficult to exceed 1400 fps with either, and in excess of 1500 fps is quite reasonable.

Take care, Tom

[Larry Gibson]

And you "exceed 1400 fps" with a 240 gr bullet out of a 41 mag with safe pressures? I can do that with 210-220 gr cast and jacketed with the normal magnum level powders out of my 7.5" Ruger. What powder and load are you using?

Larry Gibson

[Tatume]

Hi Larry,

245 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon H4227 .410" 1.630" 18.0 1272 27,000 CUP 20.0 1444 37,700 CUP
245 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester 296 .410" 1.630" 18.5 1372 22,800 CUP 21.0 1563 37,400 CUP
245 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon H110 .410" 1.630" 18.5 1372 22,800 CUP 21.0 1563 37,400 CUP

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Take care, Tom

[Larry Gibson]

Tatume

Nice to quote Hodgdon data but tbat is from SAAMI unvented tes barrels. The velocities you will get from a revolver with 4 - 7 1/2" barrel is consideralbly less. Have you chronographe'd the velocity of those loads out of your revolver? What is the barrel length of your revolver?

For example look at the 210 XTP bullet load with H110. With that exact same max load in my Ruger Bisley BH with 7 1/2" barrel the velocity is 200+ fps less than what Hodgdon lists. The loads you list will also give considerably less velocity in a 7 1/2" barreled revolver. I'd be surprised if the broke 1200 -1250 fps by much. Out of a shorter barrel it would be less. The OP doesn't mention the gun or barrel length?

Larry Gibson

[Tatume]

Hi Larry,

While it is true that barrel length has an effect on muzzle velocity, the effect is as evident in 44 Magnum revolvers as it is in 41 Magnum revolvers. Details of the individual loads aside, the point remains: 240 grain bullets are quite viable in 41 Magnum revolvers, and there are no good reasons to not use them. Any speed attainable with a 265 grain bullet in a 44 Magnum revolver can be attained in a comparable 41 Magnum revolver with 240 grain bullets. To say that someone should not expect good performance with bullet weights greater than 220 grains in the 41 Magnum (i.e. "If more bullet is really needed then step up to the .44 magnum" or "If you want something bigger get a gun that is designed to shoot a heaver boolit") is wrong. The 41 Magnum is quite capable with 240 - 250 grain bullets.

Take care, Tom

[Southpaw 72]

The load data from hodgdon is from a 10.2" test barrel. Max load out of my 5.5" bisley Blackhawk is about 1300 for a 250 gr. wfngc. Still a very capable load for the .41 mag.

[Larry Gibson]

Tatume

Never said good performance could not be "expected" with heavier bullets. What I said was that standard weight cast bullets of 210-220 gr do as well for 99.9999% of our shooting with the .41 magnum. I am a huge fan of the .41 magnum, have been using it in numerous revolvers since '75. Use the heavies all you want but the OP ask for suggestions and I gave mine. Is there problem with that?

Southpaw

Thanks for the info. I was pushing the Lyman GC'd SWC which ran 238 gr out of a 6" Ruger right at 1300 fps with what I thought was a max load of H110. Turned out to be a bit over max. Backed off to 1250 fps and it was a great and capable load. Just not any more capable than my 210 & 220 cast at 1350 - 1400 + fps is all.

Larry Gibson

[Southpaw 72]

For those interested in hotrodding the .41 mag, read this. http://www.lasc.us/TaylorPACO41Mag.htm

[Larry Gibson]

For those interested in hotrodding the .41 mag, read this. http://www.lasc.us/TaylorPACO41Mag.htm

Read Paco's article many years ago and is basically what I do and am talking about.

Larry Gibson

[Tatume]

He's an interesting guy. At one time he was our Superintendent of State Police here in Virginia.

[theperfessor]

Lee used to make a 240 gr .41 SWC. I never could get the same accuracy out of it as I have been able to get out of the 220 gr boolits from an H&G 258 mold or from my Lyman 410459 mold. And to me at least the recoil went up disproportionately to the performance. This is in a 4" M57.

If a load/bullet/powder/etc. works for you that's fine.

[GLynn41]

personally I could not come close to what Paco published-- none of the guns I had or have would take those loads or give that velocity-- I have had much better performance with h110/296--

[Capt. Methane]

There's a lot of great info here and I appreciate it. I like heavy bullets, it's a personal preference-I've never used anything lighter than a 200gr in .45 ACP for instance. It's kind of an archaic protocol dating from the days of black powder but for close range the adage is a heavy ball and less powder-in a modern firearm that's going to be out to about 100 yards.

There's two guns I'll be feeding-a 6" M-57 and the Marlin lever gun-sorry, I should have mentioned that.

Larry-I appreciate your take on the subject actually and had I known 25 years ago that factory ammo for the .41 was going to cost more (if you could even find it and needed some in a pinch) and reloading components would be more scarce I may well have opted for the .44 Mag-but that's purely a matter of economics and convenience viewed with 20-20 hindsight rather than because of any perceived shortcoming in the .41! I'm not trying to turn my .41 into a .44-I understand that no matter what I do I'm going to have 85% of a .44 Mag and that's fine-there's dang little that would know there was a 15% difference in energy when hit by either one. There's two parts to kinetic energy-velocity and mass-and in my development of handgun rounds I tend to favor adding mass rather than velocity for better retained energy so long as accuracy can be maintained.

Both the Marlin and the -57 liked the Sierra 220gr FPJ but that one has gone the way of the Dodo so I've been looking for a replacement, one that I can make myself so I'm not subject to the fickle whims of manufacturers-but I'm probably getting ahead-it may be that I can't find a cast bullet that both guns like for higher powered loads and given that molds and a sizing die aren't cheap I think I'll drop back and try several of the Beartooth bullets and some of the others mentioned here and make sure of what will work rather than ending up with a lot of $$$ tied up in being able to make a marginal performer.

Thanks for the help!

[Larry Gibson]

Capt

If that's what you want then go for it. Just double check the Marlin's twist. Older Marlins are notorious for slow twists, not sure about the .41 though. Just suggesting you make sure it can stabilize heavier bullets, if you haven't already.

Larry Gibson

[Capt. Methane]

I've already sent a few 250gr boolits from Beartooth down range from the Marlin and under the somewhat adverse conditions of the day I was actually pleased though more development is needed. I want to try a couple of different profiles and weights and make sure they are compatible with the revolver too. I launch into the endeavor knowing that I may not find one that works really well in both-though I have in the past and lightening does strike twice!

That's one of the things that got me thinking that maybe I should hold off on a mold for a bit-I need more data to narrow down a choice...

Among other things reading the responses here got me thinking things through a little more, pointed me at some resources and helped me make a better plan.

Good input, thanks to all-I came to the right place!