CHEAP options for smelting

[fireflyfather]

OK, have tried two different hot plates at 1000watts ($20 wallmart and a generic, unnamed one). I could barely get 3-5 lbs of wheel weights to melt, and it was still in the lumpy stage after an hour (had hot spots that would melt, and migrate, but mostly it just re-solidify). I had about an inch worth of WW in the bottom of a thin pan. Also tried a dutch oven with these burners, but it was just too big.

Couldn't get it to work on the side burner of the propane barbecue, either.

I've seen a lot of people doing this with hot plates.

Is it really necessary to use gas? If so, what kind of BTU range is adequate? Are we talking 10,000BTU coleman stove, or do I have to bite the boolit, and get a turkey frier?

[wiljen]

I've used both, the coleman stove will work but will take longer. Watch yard sales for a turkey fryer - they show up fairly regularly for $15-$20 after people try em once. Home Depot and Lowes have the trade a cylinder propane for $17 a pop after you buy the first one. If you get lucky you can get a propane cylinder at the yard sale too - even an empty one will work for trade in.

[MT Gianni]

It is a function of heat. 10,000 btuh of coleman or 35,000 btuh turkey fryer [the h is hour so btu per hour] will melt lead. The question is how fast. You should not presume 3.5 times faster as burner effiencies and what happens after the burn are involved. How far away a pot sits, how much deflection of the flame occurs from wind or other causes. Be assured that more heat gets a faster melt. Gianni

[shooter575]

If you want cheep,you could rig up somthing to hold your pot and use charcoal or some hardwood.Old pallet lumber works well.Make sure the riged holder is sturdy though.
Surface area vs the btu output will make a diffrence with a small heat scource. ie a big iron pot on that 1000 watt element. most of your heat will be asorbed by the pot then be transfered to the air reducing heat to the WW.
I have a old propane plumbers pot that will melt 75 lb in just a few minutes.I wanted a biger pot so I used a old 10 lb lp tank with the top cut off.It will melt about 150 lb of lead but no more.Just sticks to the sides.So I use a 2nd heat scource.A harbor freight weed burner.Then I can melt up to 400 lb a throw.Once melted the orgional heat scource will keep everything melted. You might want to try a little propane torch along with the hot plate.It may work.

[imashooter2]

For cheap smelting, a gasoline Coleman stove will do 2.5 to 3 quarts of WW in a half an hour or so. I see one of the 2 burner models pretty often at yard sales around here for $10 or less. I've gotten 2 of them at $5 each. Make sure to get the liquid gas stove. The propane version will eat your lunch in fuel costs. The gasoline stoves will do at least 100 pounds on a gallon.

New Turkey fryers are on close out right now at all the department and home stores. They are fast and high capacity, but expensive to run. I made the step up last year when I had 12 buckets to do. In the grand scheme, it's just trading dollars for time though.

[WineMan]

I used half a gallon of Coleman Fuel smelting 75 lb of WW into one lb ingots with a RCBS 4 lb pot and cast 200 Lee 312-165 TL's on my Coleman 413G (1970's vintage).

Pretty cheap I would say!

Sure a bigger pot would have cut the time down but I only used one burner and using two could have made things more efficient.

Dave

[454PB]

If you have 240 volts available, take a look at this:

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=10127

As mentioned in my last post, I melted 106 pounds of wheelweights into ingots recently. It took an hour and 45 minutes. The element costs 30 cents per hour to operate, so I used less than 60 cents worth of electricity.

[montana_charlie]

I had about an inch worth of WW in the bottom of a thin pan. Also tried a dutch oven with these burners, but it was just too big.

A thin pan acts like the heat sink on your computer chip...radiating heat into the air...and removing it from your alloy. A full pan of alloy would act somewhat better.

If you are going to use cast iron, the container should be no larger in diameter than the element. It will work better than the thin pan, and works best with a lid on top till things get melted.
CM

[RU shooter]

If you have 240 volts available, take a look at this:

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=10127

As mentioned in my last post, I melted 106 pounds of wheelweights into ingots recently. It took an hour and 45 minutes. The element costs 30 cents per hour to operate, so I used less than 60 cents worth of electricity.

OR this .I for one am done with open flame\
5104:-D

[fireflyfather]

Thanks for all the good info. It turns out I have a gas-fired hot plate (10,000BTUh) used for tabletop/camp cooking, with little gas canisters ($1 a pop...probably burns for an hour or so). Going to try it. If it works out, it might be a lot cheaper in initial cash layout...about $20 each from asian markets. Fuel is probably a lot more, though.

[Old Ironsights]

Thanks for all the good info. It turns out I have a gas-fired hot plate (10,000BTUh) used for tabletop/camp cooking, with little gas canisters ($1 a pop...probably burns for an hour or so). Going to try it. If it works out, it might be a lot cheaper in initial cash layout...about $20 each from asian markets. Fuel is probably a lot more, though.

Works quite a bit longer than that.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_0384.jpg

I can do about 1/2 a bucket of WW on a single propane can.

And it all fits in a tote when I'm done.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_0391.jpg

The only thing splurged on was the melt pot. I paid $13 for a 2qt heavy aluminium saucepan with pour lips.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_0386.jpg

[44woody]

DO NOT USE ALUMINIUM to melt lead in it will fail on you and come apart on you I had a pot of lead come apart on me once and made a mess of things totaled my colman stove I was using always use steel or cast iron to melt your lead in and I know some of you say I have done it and not had a problem and I said the same thing till that last time I melted in that Aluminium pot I was using guess what I am saying to all of you is be safe in melting your lead down :castmine: 44Woody

[imashooter2]

I want to second 44woody. Aluminum will fail without warning, and standing in a puddle of molten metal is generally regarded as a bad thing. Be safe.

[Old Ironsights]

Even as thick as 1/4" like above? I would agree on some of those flimsy cheapo-stamped pots, but this is heavy-duty cast stuff. I wish I could find a 2qt cast iron pot in a similar config, but haven't been able to.

[Wayne Smith]

Yeah, even the 1/4" heavy ones will fail. It's something to do with the heat soaking and changes in the composition of the aluminum. Failure is almost guaranteed but not predictable as I understand it. Felix or one of the engineers on the site will explain it better. Bottom line is don't use it at all around molten lead.

[montana_charlie]

Tell me something, Old Ironsights.

Those ingot moulds in your big plastic box are sure prettier than mine.
What are they made of?

CM

[mtgrs737]

Ingot moulds in the picture look like the new Lyman aluminum ones, I have four of them and they work as good as they look.

FFF,

For a cast iron pot look at the big box stores like Sportsmans Warehouse, Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc. also Harbor Freight tools have some on sale from time to time. The dutch oven type work good and can be had in different sizes. I picked up a really big fryer scoop that I use as a wheel weight skimmer at Sportsmans Warehouse for less than $10 and it makes quick work of removing the clips. The scoop is made of heavy wire/rod that is welded together and is strong enough to get the job done. Get rid of that aluminum pot before it hurts you! No sense taking a chance.

[KevMT]

DO NOT USE ALUMINIUM to melt lead in it will fail on you and come apart on you I had a pot of lead come apart on me once and made a mess of things totaled my colman stove I was using always use steel or cast iron to melt your lead in and I know some of you say I have done it and not had a problem and I said the same thing till that last time I melted in that Aluminium pot I was using guess what I am saying to all of you is be safe in melting your lead down :castmine: 44Woody

To be fair I have also had a cast iron pot fail by splitting from heat of a borrowed turkey fryer. Conversly, I have used an aluminum "fry daddy" with the thermostat bypassed to melt dozens of pots of lead. I do keep a watchful eye on things and make sure not to stand too close to it though. Given your warnings I am going to keep the melt at ground level rather than raised to waist level like I prefer. That way if there is a pot failure for what ever reason, the splash effect will be minimized.

Kev

[44woody]

there is a big difference in casting with aluminium such as using a aluminum mould or ingot mould which weighs from a few gr to 4or 5 lb and cools fast that is safe but when you have moltant lead in a pot for a long time it will fail and you can end up in the hospital real fast I have seen what can happen when aluminum fails and if I was standing there when it happen I would of been hurt bad and I do not wish this to happen to any one ever have a speck of lead pop on your hand well imagain having a lap full of liquid lead on you think about that and think where you will be going next hint it starts with a H :castmine:44Woody

[imashooter2]

Getting away with doing something dangerous, even getting away with it many times, does not make it safe. The down side of an aluminum pot failing can be pretty severe. I just don't see any up side that makes it worth doing.

But hey, we're all adults here. You steps up and you takes your chance...

[fireflyfather]

Works quite a bit longer than that.

Actually, no it doesn't, since the propane cans I am talking about are about the size of your average can of WD-40 or hair spray. This is the type of burner you get at Asian markets for doing "hot pot" cooking. The gas comes in plastic packs of 4 cans, for about $4. Each lasts about an hour.

[richbug]

On the cheap??? That would be my set-up.

a 12 QT cast iron dutch oven with lid, a stainless steel kitchen ladle, a good garden rake, and a hot wood fire.

I can do 75# of assorted plumbous material in well under an hour(wheelweights, sandy indoor range lead, whatever). Could do much more, but don't have enough ingot moulds.

you get a good fire going, it only takes 15 minutes to melt. I use the rake to lift the pot out of the fire, fill moulds till the alloy freezes, or the ingot moulds get too hot.

[johnly]

I'm thinking of building up a lead smelter based on this burner system. It's about $30 at Harbor Freight with a coupon.

Comments?

John

[Old Ironsights]

Actually, no it doesn't, since the propane cans I am talking about are about the size of your average can of WD-40 or hair spray. This is the type of burner you get at Asian markets for doing "hot pot" cooking. The gas comes in plastic packs of 4 cans, for about $4. Each lasts about an hour.

Huh. Admittedly I use the "fat" propane tanks (vs the skinny "torch" tanks), but they are still only 1lb... and on the burner pictured I get a good 3 hours from a new can.

IIRC the can shown is the generic "American Camper" brand that comes in a shrink-wrapped 4 pack for about $8.

[Old Ironsights]

Well, I guess I'll retire the aluminium pot then. Too bad, as it did a good job with that light burner.

Do aluminnium pots just come apart on the burner, or when you try to pick up a full one?

I never pick up a pot that has more than about 5lb melt in it, preferring to use a ladle to fill my ingots.

[montana_charlie]

Old Ironsights,
I also use a heavy aluminum saucepan for small batches.
Mine is just the right size to mix up 20 pounds of lead/tin alloy...and the interior is easy to keep clean.
The handle is not beefy enough to pick up twenty pounds, so I also use a pair of pliers to grip the other side of the pan.

I have four Lyman ingots moulds, and pour them completely full. That allows me to empty twenty pounds from the pan in a single pour.
My 'good stuff' ingots are solid five pound blocks with a 'segmented' shape.

CM

[jim4065]

What size dutch oven works best with a turkey fryer? 10" diameter by 6 " deep? That sounds pretty close, but I'd appreciate dimensions from someone who knows. I've already got a turkey fryer and 20# lp tank, and using an old Lee bottom pour melter is both aggravating and slow.

[mtgrs737]

If you check around at airconditioning servicing places (Residential or Automotive) they may have emtpy refrigerant tanks for free that you can cut the top off of and make yourself a fine smelting pot for a little elbow grease. Maybe even two or three of them if you like. Cut them about 1/2" above the center weld seam.

[Scrounger]

The diameter of the pan has to fit on your burning apparatus. Depth is dependent on the amount of WW you're going to put in it. Figure the lead at 24# a quart. You want enough room in it to stir in your flux and to use whatever dipper you have. I personally wouldn't even think about lifting a pan full of lead off the cooker to pour. Really, the size is up to you; the more lead WW you put in there, the longer it takes to melt. Just use what you're comfortable with.

[Old Ironsights]

No kidding. I tried a couple of scrounged cast iron skillets and they were flat too flat.

Little burner would only spot-heat them.

[Safeshot]

Has anyone tried to use a small counter flow, cut down "gun type" hot air, fuel oil furnace, such as ones used in some camper trailers or mobile homes as a heat source? I think they run in the 60,000 to 75,000 BTU range. I saw one years ago cut down just above the top of the combustion chamber with fire brick aroound the top , that was used as a "forge" which could be easily transported. It seemed to "make a lot of heat" in a hurry. Used ones can be purchased (if you can find them) at low cost.

Has anyone used a REALLY heavy (yard sale) stainless steel "sauce pan" (one with a heavy stainless steel handle) or larger "cooking pot" as a lead melting pot? I have seen a few that appear to be some kind of "commercial" kitchen item, with lids. Also saw a few "very heavy" stainless steel mixing bowls that might be suitable. Cost is low but finding them is time consuming.

Cast iron muffin pans and cast iron "corn cob muffin pans" and individual stainless steel poached egg inserts make good expedient ingot molds, (use "vise grip" handles).

Just some ideas, safeshot

[Safeshot]

I was just talking to a friend of mine on the phone about this subject. He reminded me of a Cowboy Action Shooting Club that did a rather large "melt" using a "turkey fryer" with a steel melting pot and a sheet metal "wind screen" around it with two holes in the wind screen for additional heat using two "weed burners". With the three heat sources there was a "nice" combined BTU available for a "quick melt". They did range lead, pipe, WW, flashing, other scrap lead and tin. They used a long handle shovel to "fill the pot" and a long handle ladle to pour the melt. It was "good alloy".

[HTRN]

About the cheapest decent setup I've come across is the HF dutch oven with a burner from a Turkey fryer.

Dicks has a Masterbuilt for $40 (http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1347141&cp=2277758&pg=3&sr=1&origkw=fryer&parentPage=family), and the HF 6 quart Dutch oven is $18 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44705)


HTRN

[johnly]

That's a deal. I wish there was a Dick's close to my location.

John

[corvette8n]

For smelting I bought a 5qt camp pot from a tool show
and a high pressure burner and regulator from Agri-supply
pot was on sale for 7.99 and burner cost me about $30.00.
I throw the stuff into the pot and put the cover on, this also keeps the tinsel fairy away.

http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,963.htm

[shotstring]

Good price on that dutch oven Corvette. I like a little bit larger unit though. Yours has a 10" diameter which should be more than adequate, but if you like something a little larger (12" diameter), Sam's Club has a Wentzel cooking set in a bitchin' wood box that also includes a large fry pan and a cast iron griddle as well for around $27. For a heater, I got that 100,000 BTU unit from Mile High Distillers in Colorado or $62 and it included the hose and regulator in that price.
Boy does that unit melt a bunch of lead in a hurry!

[jim4065]

Thanks Corvette. Just bought two of 'em. Best price I've seen.

[Bret4207]

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=20408

Thats a link to the "pot" I use. Stainless steel. Fits the burner, 1200 watt Walmart special, to a "T" and works great for me. Where to find another one is the trick.

Much less dross than with cast iron or steel too.

[parson48]

I use a 2 qt. heavy stainless saucepan that I got for $1 at a moving sale. I'm, admittedly, a small timer, using a wal-mart hot plate with this pan, and muffin pans for ingot molds, I get 4-5 "muffins from each pan, leaving a couple of inches in the bottom of the pan. They weigh just shy of 2 lbs each. This works well for my needs. Oh, and I have fashoined a wind shield from some old aluminum furnace pipe.
parson

[Ohio Rusty]

I also use a stainless steel Revere 2 1/2 quart sauce pan to melt led over a small propane stove (Coleman knock off). I have a taiwan made cast iron pot I started with, but where the handle meets the pot seems awfully thin. I could only imagine moving the pot to the ingot moulds and the handle snapping and that pot of molten lead dropping. I trust the steel/bakelite handle on the Revere pot to not break.
Ohio Rusty ><>

[fireflyfather]

Update: The gas canisters I am talking about seem to be 8 oz butane canisters, according to the label. Now that I've figured out just how much I can melt in the dutch oven without having the edges freeze up, I can get about 10 lbs (net) of WW cleaned up and in ingot form per can of fuel. So, call it about 450 rounds (I want to cast 150-158 grains per bullet) for $1.00 worth of fuel, plus lead costs (about $4 per 10lbs of usable clip on weights...plus some stick on ones). Call it $5 for 450 rounds...just a hair over a penny per projectile. Turner's around here sells magtech for $0.10 per projectile, and silver state for $0.06 per projectile, after tax. I'm saving about 75-80% over store bought...maybe a little less after lube costs.

So, while not as cheap as electric, nor as fast as the turkey frier, the little butane stove is ALMOST cheap as hell to run.

If anyone needs a relatively cheap, portable burner for small batches...visit your local asian market, and look for the stand-alone burners.

[exblaster]

I see you all are using Colman cylinders on your camp stoves. That is not cost effective. I use an adapter hose to connect a small tank {2 1/2 lbs tank } to my stove. Much cheaper.
Exblaster

[Bret4207]

I see you all are using Colman cylinders on your camp stoves. That is not cost effective. I use an adapter hose to connect a small tank {2 1/2 lbs tank } to my stove. Much cheaper.
Exblaster


Along the same lines, Harbor Freight, Northern Hydraulics sell adapters that let you refill the 1 lb propane cylinders from your 20 pounders.

[snowtigger]

When I get serious about smelting, I use a turkey fryer and a ten quart cast Iron pot. Turkey fryer was a yard sale find,(10.00) as was the pot.
I can heap that pot full of ww and be pouring ingots ( muffin tins, also from yard sales, thanks to my wife ) in about 20 minutes. I use an old plumber's ladle and can fill 3 1/2 ingots from one ladle.
I can render down four 5gal buckets of WW in an afternoon.
For casting, I use a 20 lb Lee bottom pour pot.
It works for me....

[jtaylor1960]

I have a propane furnace I bought from Buffalo Arms that is rated at 15000 BTU.It works well in warm weather with no wind.At times though I can't get enough heat to keep a 20lb. pot hot enough while casting.

[MT Gianni]

20 lb pots are the minimum to go with. Gianni

[testhop]

OK, have tried two different hot plates at 1000watts ($20 wallmart and a generic, unnamed one). I could barely get 3-5 lbs of wheel weights to melt, and it was still in the lumpy stage after an hour (had hot spots that would melt, and migrate, but mostly it just re-solidify). I had about an inch worth of WW in the bottom of a thin pan. Also tried a dutch oven with these burners, but it was just too big.

Couldn't get it to work on the side burner of the propane barbecue, either.

I've seen a lot of people doing this with hot plates.

Is it really necessary to use gas? If so, what kind of BTU range is adequate? Are we talking 10,000BTU coleman stove, or do I have to bite the boolit, and get a turkey frier?
i use a 35000 btu stove i got from NORTHERN TOOL +EQUIPMENT for iirc 35.00i dont know if thay still have have them of not but you can try i had a time to get it
running but wheni did boy did it melt lead i use a 3 qt cast iron pot it holds
about a lot i dont know how much but i would guess 50or 60 lbs
i use a rcbs bottom pour for casting
the phone# for northern tool is 1 800-533-5545 web is Northern tool.com
theywill send you a cadalog

[TAWILDCATT]

AGRI SUPPLY had a sale on turkey fryer and 12 qt cast kettle at $59 last I saw was $79.season is about over so maybe they will sale them again.
molds at $65, melters trying to get away cheap it does not figure.
Lyman made a 20 lb melting pot of aluminum,it had a tendicy to melt so they took it off the market that SHOULD tell you something about using alum.they traded mine for the new model.:coffee: :Fire: :coffee: