WHAT IS THE BEST REVOLVER & AUTO?

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
My 2 son's are thinking of getting a hangun. And have asked Matt & I what are the best ones .
They feel my answer is ambigous, & Matt my niephew(who is a gunsmith), asked me to pose The Question to the forum as the combined expertese here is unequaled.
I prefaced my answer w/ 2 caviats: 1) That depends on what you want.2)It depends on the usage critera.
If we exclude single shot pistols because they are for target & hunting only. Because they are only going to buy 1.
I feel the best all around handgun is a revolver in 357 or bigger. My reasons are They can be used for target, hunting (357-deer & smaller), & self defence. The 357 is the min. cal.,except for training porpouses.
I feel one should use the biggest/most powerfull cal/cartrage one can shoot accuratly. If you can"t hit the target it doesn"t matter how big/powerfull it is. It doesn"t do any good.
I feel the gun must be cast friendly as that's the only way most can afford to shoot enough to get compatant.
Back in my law enforcement carier many of the major dept. felt that it took 500 rounds to just familerize cadets w/ their 38s enough that most would qualify.
I feel the Rugers are the best quality for the money. I like single actions but lets face it they aren't for self defence anymore, unless there is no other choice. I like the bigger S&W revolvers but feel you are paying $100+ extra for the name. Colts you pay $200+ for the name & are not getting any better reliability, accuracy, or quality. I feel that generally the best quality revolvers are american made.
I believe we all would agree the gun has to be VERY RELIABLE, the more accurate the better, & powerfull enough to do the job. To me the 357 is the min. power, & anyone can LEARN how to shoot it if they want to. Accually I personally believe anything less than 40 cal has limited usefullness, the bullet should have 1000'/s vel MINIMUM, & the more mass the better.
Matt & the boys are looking at the magnum research revolvers, & the Isrealie industries 44 mag autos.
WHAT DO YOU GUYS FEEL ABOUT THESE GUNS?
It is my understanding that if one has the money ,the Freedom Arms revolvers are the most accurate ( & most cast friendly),& relibable out of the box.
I am not a autoloader expert.
SO WHAT DO YOU GUYS FEEL IS THE BEST ALL AROUND AUTO ON THE MARKET?
ALSO WHAT IS THE BEST ALL AROUND REVOLVER ON THE MARKET?

[Willbird]

Depends on what you want to do I guess, I think the Makarov pistols are the best deal going out there right now, they can of they shop get a cz-52 AND a mak for a little over 200 for BOTH. Not what you asked , but still a good deal on some interesting guns.

I like 1911 varient pistols myself, especially when you consider the choices you have in aftermarket parts.

For revolvers, I really like my security six ruger, and I have a strong fondness for older model 29 smith's the ones without all the MIM parts.


Bill

[JSH]

Before ya go looking at those BFR's or magnum research, look long and hard at a FA. If you were fortunate enough to have ever shot an FA the revolver question would have been ruled out. I am only going towards the hunting and shooting with said gun here. Some fo the laws the way they read or are interperated , if you have to cock the gun before hand in order to fire, makes you the bad guy in, shall I say personal situation.
So if that is going to be included here I would have too say one of the DA's would be in there myself.
Jeff

[9.3X62AL]

I'll go out on a limb a bit here, and say that no single handgun platform does as many things as well as a good quality medium frame double action 357 Magnum revolver with 4" barrel and adjustable sights. Examples would be the Ruger GP-100 or Security-Six, Colt Python or old model Trooper, or S&W Models 19, 66, 586, or 686. S&W has re-configured their model references in the 357 Magnum lately, so consult their web site or catalog for nomenclature accuracy. The 357 is a little weak for big game hunting, and I would like a little longer barrel than 4" for that venue--but it will do the job if the operator KNOWS the gun and its load.

In the autopistol, I think it is VERY difficult to beat a high-quality 1911A1 platform in 45 ACP. Gone are the days of unreliable feeding with cast or hollow-point bullets, and the accuracy of these pistols can be astounding. The 40 S&W reaches the stopping ability of the 45 ACP, and full-value 9mm's approach same--but the 45 ACP beats them all hollow in terms of intrinsic cartridge accuracy in off-the-shelf pistols. The 45 operates at about half the pressure of the other two calibers, and is A LOT MORE lead-friendly than the 9 or the 40. If a double action pistol is desired, the SIG-Sauer P-220 is a pretty good package. The 1911A1's have the option of 22 LR conversion kits, if that's desired.

I don't have enough experience with the Desert Eagles to comment on their utility, other than to say they are VERY heavy for a service or hunting sidearm. The only "conventional" autoloading pistol caliber deemed sufficient for deer-sized game is the 10mm Auto, which I've shot pretty extensively. I like it A LOT, and wish I could have carried it on duty. Now--if CZ could be prompted to chamber their CZ-97 in 10mm, we would have the "Bren 10" pretty close to the original idea as advanced 30 years ago.

If built in sufficient numbers, I feel the 10mm could supplant the 45 ACP as "best all-around" centerfire pistol caliber. I just don't see it happening, though--the round is just a little too much for many handgunners, and the loads that do the best work can batter platforms prematurely. Like the 41 Magnum, a great idea that not enough people cared about to make it as successful as it deserves to be.

[crazy mark]

Choice for a revolver would be a Ruger Convertable 357/9mm or 45 LC/ACP.
Autoloader a 1911a1 or 9mm. Would choose the combo's to be able to use the ammo in both. To mean that means the most versatility. Mark

[Bret4207]

You won't go wrong with a K or L frame Smith 357 or Ruger 357. Colt is a very close 3rd mostly because of price. Personally I'd prefer a 44 Special, but I'm no yoour boys and it wouldn't be my first gun. Actually a 22 should be the first one. Ruger Single Six, Smith K-22, Colt Diamondback, Ruger Auto, Smith 422, Browning- any of them. For the auto a 1911 is great if you can afford the doohickys and whatchamacallits to get it set up right or get a good one out of the gate. Another possibilty is the EAA Witness whcih has interchangable caliber selections and feels real nice. CZ makes nice autos as does Brownings. Glocks neat but you'll pay $$$$$$ for what you get.

I'd stick with a K or L frame Smith, 4 or 6 inch , adjustable sights and make it used since the new ones are priced like gasoline these days. Should be able to come up with a tight one for around $250.00. Less if they are satisfied with a 38 Special.

[45nut]

Another vote for the K-frame ,either 38 or 357. Such flexibility,from wadcutter poof loads to full loads of H-110 and the bellow and fire that it provides. I have 2,a Model 10 and a Model 19. I have fun with both and yet either would certainly provide target or self-defence utility.
I do agree with Tpr. Bret on a 22,an abundance of shooting is possible for a few dollars.
And for the auto preference? Either a SIG P-220/45acp or a well built 1911. No Llama's need apply there............

[carpetman]

My first revolver was a Ruger and I did not like the grip. I don't have big hands,but the grip felt too small. I sold it and was going to add some more funds and buy a Colt Python,but ran across a steal on a S&W Highway Patrolman. I like it very much,but always had it in my mind that a Colt would be better. I ran across a steal on a Colt Peacekeeper and bought it. I offered it to a son in law for the price I paid. He was stationed in England and said hold it for him. I did and never even shot it. He shot it more than a little and the barrel loosened. Seems the rifling is such that the barrel lossens vs tightening as you shoot. (Similar problem with shooting arrows,if fletched one way the points loosen when they are stopped by the target butt and fletched other direction they tighten) Back to my son in law--a gunsmith some place merely tightened the barrel and it loosened again. He brought it here and my gunsmith did a proper fix--whatever that was and no problems since. So now all these years later,I have to say that S&W Highway Patrolman Is pretty darned good. Auto's,I have always been fond of the Colt Woodsman .22. Now according to my gunsmith you can't beat a Ruger single action for strength. He likes them,but I think they built them for ladies and kids hands.

[Mk42gunner]

If you want to buy new in revolvers I would recommend a Ruger GP-100 in either a four or six inch length, if you can find one of the light contour six inchers it will balance about like the heavy four inch.
In autos I really like the 1911, I think the best ones available now are the Kimbers, although the SIG 220 is just as dependable.

If your sons want to buy used, my all time favorite is a ruger security six. When I buy a used 1911 in 45 the first thing I do is replace the recoil spring with an 18.5 lb wolff spring. That and good mags tends to make them more reliable.

For a persons first handgun I firmly believe they should buy a quality .22, I saw many instances in the navy when a young sailor would buy a gun they simply didn't have the ability to shoot because they were intimidated by recoil or muzzle blast. They hadn't mastered the basics with a gun that was easy to shoot.

Robert

[9.3X62AL]

C-man......I hear ya on the Ruger single actions, just a little too skinny for me too. The Bisleys fit me pretty well, and I put a set of Hogue neoprenes on the Blackhawk x 41 Magnum.

I am very surprised that Kimber or Springfield doesn't sell their 1911A1's in package form with a 22 LR conversion kit included. Ciener has some 22 LR conversion kits for a number of full-size service pistols, and Beretta sells one for their 92/96 series pistols.

[BD]

IMHO, The revolver would be a Dan Wesson 744. The ability to change barrel lengths, shrouds, and barrels is a big plus. The .44 mag can be loaded up or down as needed for most anything. I also like the ability to easily remove the barrel for cleaning and adjust the barrel/cylinder gap.
The semi auto would be anyone's modern 1911 without a firing pin safety or external extractor. This design has proven itself over time, at least in my family.
Anyone's new factory gun may or may not need some slickin' up in the beginning, but there's nothing ever gonna go wrong with it that can't be fixed at home.
BD

[7br]

Boy, when you say best, you really need to qualify what you think best means. If you want absolute strength and accuracy, the Freedom Arms revolvers would be hard to beat. Best value for the dollar would probably go to the Ruger Blackhawk. A buddy came by with a Stainless blackhawk hunter in .41 which was very nice. I would agree with the grips though. In double action, an old Monson Mass. Dan Wesson is hard to beat. The ones manufactured in Norwich are also extremely nice. I really like my .41 and wouldn't hesitate to buy another one, or two or three. For a non-caster though, I would probably recommend a .44 for deer and smaller.

[RugerFan]

Another vote for the Ruger BH. Having owned several (Blackhawks, Super Blackhawks & Super Blackhawk Hunters) in .41 & .44 mag I can tell you they are outstanding handguns for the money. The Hunter models are more pricey, but the plain jane blued BH is very reasonable. With the .41 mag you can attain near .44 mag performance with noticaeably less recoil. A real pleasure to shoot and hammers big game.

The Dan Wessons are very nice, but a year ago they were only producing revolvers by special order. Now I hear they have been bought out, so I'm not sure what the deal is.

I've had the pleasure of shooting a couple FAs. They very well may be the most accurate production single actions. The cost is a bit prohibitive though.

[Piglead]

I love my super blackhawks in .44mag ( I had to put oversized grips due to large hands ) They're indestructable ! I aso have the single six .22lr/mag

Dble action 686 every time & John Browning was on a winner with the 1911

Dave

[trickyasafox]

i think a gp100 would be a great choice, if only because you can shoot everything from powder puff 38's to barn burnin 357s. however for a new shooter i always like a good 22. easy to learn on, cheap to feed, reasonable to buy. i think a good 22 is more of a entry into the shooting world, where as a large caliber handgun in many cases, though not all, is the beginning and end of a lot of shooters gun buying careers. 22's are fun, and large frame heavy caliber pistols can be a bit intimidating to new pistol shooters, and it can be frustrating to spend 20 dollars on a hundred rounds and not hit anything. rather then assume 1 gun will cover all their needs, i would steer them toward 1 gun that will spark thier interest enough for a desire to branch out and find what else they really like.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
None of my kids are what you would call new shooters. they all have personal rifles. Val my middle daug. has a S&W M27 6& 1/2 '' , the wife has a Ruger single six both in 357. Stuart has a H&R 22 target revolver. I have a k22, & a redhawlk 44. They have all shot a colt python in 357.
They have all shot 100's of rifle & pistol rounds but just don't have my love for shooting.
The boys asked because they are looking at the 44 mag in a desert eagle.THAY ASKED MATT MY NIEPHEW BECAUSE HE IS A GUNSMITH. He turned around & asked me because I got him started shooting, also I have built rifles , put barrels on pistols, & have taken 2 gunsmithing classes myself.
But 99% of my experance is w/ revolvers.

[9.3X62AL]

What I KNOW about the Desert Eagles--they are heavy, ponderous beasts, but soak up/stretch out recoil impulses pretty well. A latter-day Colt Walker in some respects. A shoulder strap might be preferred over a holster to haul one around the game fields.

What I've OBSERVED about the D/E's--the examples I've fired (2 in number) seemed to have a kinda narrow operating range in terms of feeding reliability. They functioned well with loads at or exceeding 1200 FPS/240 grain bullets, but functioned sluggishly and occasionally incompletely with less vigorous loadings. The pistols fed Sierra truncated cone and Speer round flat nose hollow points well, but balked on the older Speer "half-jacket" SWC's frequently. NO cast boolits were attempted, due to both urban legend and factory recommendation that cast boolits did evil things to the gas system in the pistols.

OPINION--the D/E is an interesting design and NOT a *** by any means. Its range of operation capability is rather limited in my view, a thing aggravated by its high cost relative to a far more flexible revolver similarly chambered. I think you get a lot more gun for the money buying a S&W or Ruger wheeler, and a lead-friendly platform in the bargain. This is ameliorated to some extent by the recoil management offered by the pistol's cycling system, but not enough for me to want to put out the cash for the piece--and continue putting out big cash for bullets to run it with.

All this is expressed without knowing what it is the potential buyer wants the handgun for. In my short experience behind the counter at a fairly high-volume gun store, the Desert Eagles got handled and drooled on A LOT by younger customers. They must have a "coolness factor" that I don't see well. We sold several examples while I worked there, at +/- $1K five years ago. Higher-end S&W 29-series revolvers were selling for a little under half that price.

[lar45]

The Rugers are a very good quality. I have a 4" GP-100 stainless, it shoots great and is easy to carry. I would recomend stainless if availible. It is much more neglect resistant. If your staying with a 357, then the S&W guns are very good. I wouldn't by a 44 from them, too light and wimpy.
If money is a major consideration, then the EAA Windicator is a very good double action 357 revolver for the money, $175 ish. The one that I shot was very accurate and smooth. The finish isn't S&W quality, but the price is very low.
I have a BFR 45-70 and can keep groups under 1.5" at 50yds. It's a very well built gun. I think they are overpriced, but I bought one anyway. I've been thinking about getting one in 50 AE. They are availble in 475/480 also.
A big gun can be downloaded for plinking or turn the volume up for Elephants. A small gun will always be a small gun.

All told, I think my 4 5/8" Stainless 45 Blackhawk is my favorite revolver. I recomend a Houge monogrip.

[Linstrum]

Any place where handgun ammo is sold you are always going to find .22 Long Rifle, .25 Auto, .380 Auto, 9mm Luger, .38 Special, .357 Mag, .44 Mag, and .45 Auto. Of those that are worth a damn for both self defense and hunting, the last three are what I would get a handgun chambered in. I debated the reliability versus speed-of-reloading issue between revolver and autoloader and since most self defense situations are over by simply pulling a gun out in sight, the speed of reloading debate is not a big issue here. That leaves over-all cost and hunting to think about.

I am still thinking about it myself, so here is what I did in the meantime to tide me over until I finish making up my own mind:

I want to be able to buy ammo without having to special order it. In case I ever have to fire a shot after pulling my gun in self defense I want a cartridge powerful enough to stop an assault with a minimum number of shots. In case I have to do some depredation work or hunting I want a cartridge powerful enough to take care of coyotes and the small deer native around here.

What I did was buy a Smith & Wesson Model 19 Combat .357 Magnum with a 6-inch barrel and to go with it I bought an early manufacture Amadeo Rossi Model 92 lever action rifle chambered in .357 Magnum. The only big deal about an early Rossi is the lever doesn't have a big cumbersome loop for gloved use and the barrel is 20-inches long. The reason I didn't go with .44 Magnum is because I carry a gun with me on the dozer and the size of most .44 Mag revolvers is uncomfortably large.

[carpetman]

Linstrum---You mentioned handgun ammo. A few years ago Wal Mart quit selling such. I am still wondering what is handgun ammo? I don't think Ive ever heard of a .25ACP rifle,so maybe that's it?

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Stuart & Marc my boys seem to be focused on the Desert Eagle in 44.
I agree it must be a coolness factor as the D.E. can not do anything my Redhawk can't do.
I also agree that the 1911 auto in 45 is a great gun, I wish I could afford one.
The 10MM auto would be a good choice for self defence/some hunting.
The revolvers in 357 can shoot 38s for cheap practice, or in 44 can shoot 44special, which to me makes them more versital. Plus you can handload up/down in power w/out functioning problems.
Special thanks to DEP. AL thats the kind of info I really need for the boys.
ANYONE EALSE HAD ANY EXPERANCE W/ THE D.E.?

[waksupi]

Boom Boom, I think I would look into parts availability on the Desert Eagle. I don't imagine there are parts at the local Wally World, and I don't recall seeing parts in Brownell's right off hand. That is why, regardless of how much I may want some odd balls, if it doesn't have Colt, Ruger, or S&W somewhere on it, it most likely won't come home with me.

[9.3X62AL]

My pleasure, Boom Boom. Both of the examples I fired belonged to deputies quite a bit younger than myself, one of whom was and is pretty deeply involved in handloading. His loads and my own contributed to the evaluation of his gun, and about 300 rounds were fired that day.

The other example was fired less extensively with about 100 factory loads. A fine way to accumulate brass.

The younger folks have tastes that differ from ours, for sure. Revolvers are all but absent from their reportoire, excepting backup sub-compact 38's and 357's. Those that reload cartridges do so on Dillon progressives, and START OUT on such machines without difficulty. Mike Dillon has truly tapped into a perceived need, perhaps even creating it in the process. Most are reloading large amounts of 223, 9mm, 40 S&W, and to a lesser extent 45 ACP. Their view--they don't shoot enough 38/357 in their backup guns to justify the tool cost or time to reload the calibers. My nephews have similar tastes, adding in full-size revolvers to their preferences due in large part to their mom's PPC activities.

[Scrounger]

Boom Boom, I think I would look into parts availability on the Desert Eagle. I don't imagine there are parts at the local Wally World, and I don't recall seeing parts in Brownell's right off hand. That is why, regardless of how much I may want some odd balls, if it doesn't have Colt, Ruger, or S&W somewhere on it, it most likely won't come home with me.

Look at the money angle. For the cost of a new Desert Eagle, they could probably buy both a RedHawk and a decent 1911. Works for me.

[44man]

The very best is the FA as far as fit and finish. However I get tighter groups with my BFR revolvers. I can use a much wider choice of boolits in the BFR's due to the longer cylinders and twist rate. The SBH is my next choice in .44. A BH in .41, .44 or .45 would do all you want. The SRH and RH are fine guns too. I would stay away from the .357 if you want to hunt deer. No matter what others say, it is just too small. I will get a lot of flack over that opinion, but I will stick with it. A survey taken showed only a 50% recovery from the .357. The .44 had a 100% recovery.
As far as autos go, until you get to the Desert Eagle, none are good for deer. Those few that perform stunts with them on deer do not impress me and show poor sportsmanship. It seems as if some guys like to show how small they can go and still kill deer. I can do it with a .22 but I sure do not hunt with one.
For general shooting and defense, the 1911 is hard to beat.
OK, guys you can pound on me, but you will never change my mind!

[lar45]

I would say if they want the DE, then get it in 50 AE. IF your going big go BIG.

[9.3X62AL]

(Quote)
As far as autos go, until you get to the Desert Eagle, none are good for deer. Those few that perform stunts with them on deer do not impress me and show poor sportsmanship. It seems as if some guys like to show how small they can go and still kill deer.

44 Man--

Not trying to change anyone's mind, but I will be using 200 grain cast flatpoints at 1100 FPS from my S&W M-1026 in 10mm for deer this fall in my local mountains. This will not be a stunt--it will result from a careful shot after a close stalk, and I will pass on marginal angle shot placements. I hope that does not equate to poor sportsmanship as you describe it.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
You are all pointing out v good points that I agree with. Wish I had thought of them when they asked me a yr. ago. I'll have to bring up the topic agien w/ these points from all of you.

[Poorboy]

44man

A LOT of rifle shooters think us handgun hunters are wrong in hunting with any handgun. Most people think a 20 or 30 foot shot is all you can hit with a handgun. Just because they can not hit a target at that distance. Then there is the power issue. Got to have 1000 fp, right? Wrong! Took a deer with a Remington 1858 44 C&B using a round ball about 10-15 yards. Dead deer. 40 S&W 165 JHP--Dead deer. Both 1 shot kills, one droped on the spot (44 C&B) other went maybe 10 yards. If you have not lost a shot deer, it's because you have not shot enough yet! Nothing is 100 per cent. Not sure what is too small or weak, I would not try a deer with my .32 acp, but with a good HP or SWC load in 9mm, 40 S&W, or 45 ACP within my range I would and why not, don't we carry these to keep 200 lb. bad things from cutting, shooting, or stomping us to death?

Bottom line--break the deer down and you "made meat".

Poorboy

[9.3X62AL]

Poorboy--

You bring up a VERY good point that I have always thought to be kinda MESSED UP. I went into cop work after having been a hunter for a dozen years, and had the idea drilled into me by Dad and the folks he hunted with that "using enough gun" for the quarry and environment containing it was ETCHED INTO GRANITE.

The use of the 38 Special as my sole authorized duty sidearm caliber was not very comfortable. I actually was called upon to trade finality with a bad guy once using the system, and it worked--thanks largely to the aggressor's low level of motivation (we both survived non-fatal hits). Overall, the use of 38 Specials for close quarters firefights reminded me of using martial arts to street fight with--both do their best work in cases where semi-cooperative or poorly motivated adversaries are involved.

An FBI firearms instructor whose classes I attended and later helped teach gave a pretty direct comparison between hunting game and armed confrontations.......in both venues, thin-skinned mammals weighing +/- 225# that willingly attack at close quarters with decisive lethal force. Would YOU choose a 6-shot 38 Special as primary armament in such engagements?

I understand where 44 Man is coming from with his comments above. I think any hunting with handguns on a fine game animal must involve the willingness to "pass" on marginal/low-percentage shots, and a critical look at your own ability to place shots well with the chosen platform.

[carpetman]

44Man---100% recovery????? Just how small a sample group did that require to out do let's say a 30-06 and gosh believe this or not---you ready even .300 mag's are reported to have one that got away. If using a handgun is showing off--what is using a bow?

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
In my law enforcement I used the 38 , I am gratfull to heaven that I never had to use it in a sierious social encounter of the 3rd kind. I have always felt in was the law enforcement version of the saterday night special because of its lack of power. The Amer. Rifleman did a a study, in 1974 I believe, of all law enforcement firefights recorded at that time. If I remember correctly the 38 took an average of 3 shots in the chest cavity to stop(not kill) the firefight. This was w/ the best ammo & hollow points. Next come the 9MM, then came the 357 avg. of 2 shots to end the gunfight. Next came the 45acp, then the 41. The best was the 44 mag. There was a large sample fore the 45 acp which stopped thd fight w/ 1 shot 80% of the time. Sample size on the 41 & 44 mags. was the smallest, but they preformed the best.
I qualified w/ the 44 mag at a 98% on the PPC course so I could carry it as an off duty gun. But I still had to carry the 38 on duty. Polictial correctness has always existed. My feeling is 1 should use the biggest/most powerfull cal. one can shoot accuratly, in the higest quality gun 1 can afford in both self defence & hunting. Basicaly it boils down to HOW MUCH IS YOUR LIFE WORTH TO YOU?

[44man]

Poorboy, I have not used a rifle for years. I would guess I have shot around 40 deer with handguns, over 225 with bows and have a total kill of somewhere around 350 or 355 deer.
I, too have killed them with the Ruger old army C&B with the same results as you.
My biggest complaint to the smaller autos is the type of bullets made for them or the type of cast boolits that will function in them, not the calibers or power. The smaller calibers need expansion and that really limits penetration. The .45 ACP and some .40's just wont feed the proper boolits good enough to be reliable. I have my own range and all of my friends come over to shoot. I see the problems they have every time they try a new boolit. I see and shoot every handgun and rifle ever made without leaving home. Maybe some autos are reliable, but I have no need for one because I have all the single actions I need for any animal on earth. Having gone the route of jacketed expanding bullets in the .44 and finding penetration lacking even with no bones hit except ribs, I backed away from them and use only boolits with a large flat meplat. I have never lost a deer with handguns and have taken them to 100 yd's. The only exception I make is the round ball in the C&B. They are amazing. The last deer I shot with it folded at the shot with both shoulders broken and the ball was against the skin on the far side. I would use one of these before any .357 ever made.
Every year I have to help some neighbor find (and sometimes not find) deer shot with .300 and 7mm mags. The last one we recovered quit bleeding in 100 yd's and went another mile. Found it by luck. It had a hole in it big enough to stuff your head into. I can't convince them that it is too powerful and the tissue destruction is too jagged and will seal fast and the blood trail will be lost. YES, IT KILLS THEM BUT MOST AVERAGE HUNTERS NEVER PRACTICE, ARE AFRAID OF THE GUN AND CAN'T MAKE A CLEAN SHOT. They try to make up for this by using much more power then needed. If they used a 30-30 instead, more meat would be in the freezer.
So what it boils down to, is the proper boolit and the best I have found is a large caliber with a flat nose. It doesn't need to expand or go very fast either. 1100 fps or more will do it just fine. Another desirable point is complete penetration, same as with an arrow. Using a large caliber handgun is not a stunt. They actually kill better then a lot of rifles and you can eat right to the hole.

[9.3X62AL]

VERY interesting text in the last post, 44 Man. Knowing my limits, 50 yards is my absolute longest range for a shot with any handgun on a game animal. Most shots on deer in the areas I hunt are within that limit, I should add.

Your results with the RB 44 are intriguing, and are consistent with reported results of rifle roundball hunters, too. I wonder what contributes to their decisive hit performance! I went after my deer in 1999 with a T/C Hawken x 54 and the RB, and ended the season at dusk without getting sights on a BIG muley that I had chased all day, but who managed to keep enough brush or distance between us to prevent a shot. That is probably my most memorable deer hunt ever--even without the "take". All day spent stalking on the critter's "home field" was just a GREAT experience.

[44man]

I have taken many, many deer in Ohio, PA, Michigan and WV with muzzle loaders and round balls. .45 flinters, .50 and .54 Hawkins that I built myself. I never had to track a single one of them. The C&B seems to work the same way. I think the ball is almost flat instead of being like a round nose bullet. Then, being soft, it flattens on impact even more but does not shed any weight, therefore you get good penetration. It was very rare to recover a ball in a deer. I have used Maxi-balls and other boolits in a TC .50 but can't say any did a better job then the round ball.
Ohio only has a shotgun season where you can use a muzzle loader instead. I killed a bunch with the shotgun too, but found the flinter more accurate and I could shoot farther. So that was my gun of choice.
Most of my shots are under 50 yd's with the handguns. I guess after bow hunting and muzzle loader hunting all those years, I never seen a need to shoot real far with a rifle. Only did it a few times and do not consider it hunting, just shooting. I cut my teeth with rifles shooting woodchucks out to 600 yd's so deer are too easy.
I have a pear tree in the front yard and there must have been a bushel on the ground. There have been three to five does under the tree most of the day. They come and go at all hours. No more pears on the ground. Fun to watch them chewing those little rock hard things.

[454PB]

I have owned two Desert Eagles in .44 magnum. They are quality built, heavy duty, and fun to shoot. That being said, they are impracticle for hunting or self defense. Another drawback is the fact that they can't be used with cast bullets.

I still have a chromed DE. when I open my gun safe, anyone present is drawn to it immediately. My favorite trick is to disassemble the gun for them, which takes about 5 seconds.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Went to the new Cabbells store that just opened here in Lehi. NEAT GUN LIBARAY. We looked at a DE in 50 cal. I told them what you all had said. Then asked the sales clerk to get out a 1911 & a Redhawlk. I think they are convinced that route is a better choice now. I'll just have to what & see.
I have shot 3 deer w/ the 44 mag all at about 70yds. all 1 hit kills that I ate.
I would definatly choose the 44 over the 357. But bullet placement is still the major factor.
I don't have alot of faith in the C&B 44/45 in a revolver for hunting, because I tried it. I chest shot a deer w/ a rb out of a 54 at a little less than 100yds.. It ran uphill so after I reloaded I circled around & up to see if I could jump it. It had gone about 100 yds & laid down under a mt. mahogany tree. I spotted it from above & stalked up close. At about 25 yds I realized it coulden't get up. so I walked up to it & pulled out my ruger old army C&B loaded w/ rb & 28grs of fffg. I had to shoot that deer in the head 6 times before it died. I was shocked ,I hit it & the head recoiled down & hit the ground. Then it lifted its head again. Each time I took diliberate, unhurried, carefull aim . I saw each entrence wound. I was tring to put it out of its pain w/out ruining any meat. Neadless to say I lost all faith in blk. powder revolvers & sold the gun. At that time you could still carry a blk powder revolver on the hunt here in Ut. Can not do that anymore. I do believe the rb will give clean kills out of a rifle in a 54 if you keep shots to around 100yds.

[Char-Gar]

If you are just going to own 1 handgun then I would get a good .357 magnum sixgun with a 4" bbl.

If you are going to own 2 handguns and you handload I would skip the .357 mag and get a 44 Mag. plus a 22 LR.

If you don't handload, keep the 357 and add the 22 LR.

As to make and model, just by the very, very best you can afford and stretch some in what you think you can afford.

I would not like to be so limited, and own several score of handguns, but if I had to make the one or two gun choices, that is what I would do.

[44man]

Boom boom, I see your problem! 28 grs. is a tin can load. My Ruger holds 41 grs. of Swiss FFFG and the velocity is 1102 fps. Every C&B is not equal! The Remington C&B holds a lot of powder also but some of the Colt clones are just too weak for deer.
Load that Ruger up with a hunting load!

[44man]

Charger, the .357 will kill deer and has taken many, many of them. However, I would never shoot over 40 yd's with one and I would always have some doubt in my mind as to whether I will find the deer. Confidence in the gun is a big part of hunting. Part of the problem is that too many .357 bullets are too explosive and some will just poke a small hole through the deer. Picking the right bullet is hard if you have to use deer for a test bed.
I will stick with .44's and up because they never fail to bring home the meat.
I figure I owe it to the deer to not use a sub standard weapon on them. The .357 is the best man stopper ever made along with the .45 ACP but are not my choices for deer.

[45 2.1]

I figure I owe it to the deer to not use a sub standard weapon on them. The .357 is the best man stopper ever made along with the .45 ACP but are not my choices for deer.

It all depends on what you've got in your hand at the time. The bullet is what does the job. Pick the shot that the bullet is designed for. BTW the 45 acp does a bang up job of killing deer when you take the proper shot for the bullet used. They die faster that way than when shot by a shotgun slug.

[Bret4207]

Interesting thread. There's quite a bit of anecdotal eveidence regarding RB in revolvers during the "War between the States" (It wasn't a Civil War by definition, and my ancestors fought for the blue). At any rate the RB was reputed to be a much better stopper than the conicals. Out of a .36 it would be about like catching a 38 wadcttuer, out of a 44, a 44 wadcutter. Ouch.

A broadhead kills by hemmoraging. I have seen deer hit with a broadhead that left no blood trail at all. Tracking comes in here. OTH, they don't generally run full bore panic style if the archer stays still after the shot. I'm still not sure if I want a broadhead to remain in the deer and cut while he's moving or to go through and leave a better blood trail. Guess one of each would be best! My archery days stopped after dislocating my left shoulder. Maybe I'll see if the years have allowed it to heal.

I've shot maybe 100 deer with a handgun. The 357 head shots work fine, the 9mm so-so. These are car struck deer with their adrenilan way up. The 357 L frames were nice because you could actually hit one single action at 40-60 yards. The Glocks with NY triggers demand most guys, me included, get up with 25 yards or so. The 124 +p stuff we use just isn't effective in this use. It often takes 2 or 3 good shots to do what 1 357 to the head would do. I'm not sure if the bullets break up or just fails to penetrate, but on a side head shot they just don't work. A 22LR works better. 2 of the girls at work are lousy shots and have put 14-15 rounds into the rib cage because they can't get close enough for a head shot. That kind of thing breeds some pretty crude jokes from the farmers around here.

I'd not hesitste to take a shot within 50 yards with a good 357 cast load, 358429, Lee 180, 358627 215 gr, 358430 190 gr., or a 358156HP. I'd prefer the 44 Special and 429421 or better any rifle. As far as RB in ML we found a shoulder shot to be best. Break the shoulders and finish with a neck shot. This was especially important back when guys were using 45 RB, before the 50's and 54's became popular, and well before the scope sighted, sabot shooting inlines came on the scene. A 54 will do the job with a RB any day of the week out to 100-125 yards given good light and good shot placement.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
HEY MY R. KNEE IS ALMOST ALL BETTER 3WKS NO SHOOTING SINCE DOING THE KIETH. Left knee still is making me limp.
Well Ive only shot 3 deer w/ a revolver(not including the c&b fiasco). All 1 shot kills w/ 44mag 250 gr gc in ww alloy, air cooled, all between 70-100yds load 21 grs 2400. good gun ,good bullet ,good load.
With ML I've killed,3 deer w/ rb out of a lyman plains rifle 54 & 90grs of ffg. good rifle , v. accurate load. All at about 100yds. I sold my rifle when I found out that the rb out of it at 150yds has about the same energy as a 38 special. I wanted to be able to shoot at least 150yds.
Shot an 6 point bull elk at 200yds w/ a 58 & a solid conical out of a home made mold w/120 grs of ffg. It took about 20 steps laid down, it died before I could reload & stalk up to it.
I've shot & killed a deer at about 70yds w/ a 45 w/ a conical out of a home made mold w/ 90grs of ffg. So I guss you could say I've converted to conicals in ML.

[44man]

Yes, the conical is better at long range. Most of my round ball deer have been 100 yd's or less. I took a running and leaping deer once with the TC .50 cal Maxi ball at 150 yd's. I pulled a lead, raised it a foot over the deers back and got it right through the lungs. I had to pace off the shot twice because I could not believe I hit it. All I remember was the deer looked awful small at that range. I had a 1X scope on the gun.

[MT Gianni]

I love my redhawk 5 1/2" 44 or 45 and think the super RH is too heavy and big for me to carry on a regular basis. I would look at a cz 40 cal also. CZ makes some great stuff at affordable prices also accurate and reliable. Gianni.

[9.3X62AL]

Gianni--

The CZ-97 in 10mm would be a nice addition to their line. I know, keep dreamin'.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI
Well stuart has bought a S&W 45 auto, & is going to buy a 44 (probibly a REDHAWK) later .
Marc hasn't bought anything yet.

[9.3X62AL]

Leaving in a few minutes for a Blacktail Encounter (I hope). 30-06 with Nosler 165 B-tips will have the S&W M-624 backing it up, Lyman #429421's at 1100 FPS. Given the size of the deer around here, both arms are really too much gun--but sure as hell if I took the 250 Savage along THE BULL OF THE WOODS would show up, or some bear with a crappy attitude would come along at close quarters. Having seen those movies already, I'll take along something a bit more authoritative today.

[7br]

HI
Well stuart has bought a S&W 45 auto, & is going to buy a 44 (probibly a REDHAWK) later .
Marc hasn't bought anything yet.

You might have him look at used dan wessons. I have an older one manufactured in Monson, Mass that I won't give up for love or money. The latest incarnation from Norwich NY looks pretty good also, but they are pricey.

[9.3X62AL]

Another Blacktail Encounter planned for this afternoon and evening, gonna work the edge areas of the recent fire and maybe spring a buck from his daybed. I think the 10mm will come along this time, 200 grain RCBS TCFP @ 1100 FPS. Basically, a '73-class 44-40 load with a little better sectional density. Quail season opens on Saturday, CANNOT miss THAT.

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
Got my deer on 2nd day of the ML hunt w/ 478gr cast bullet from Ted's & my home made secant ogive .45 cal mold. Used 4# ww to 1# Pb alloy. 1 shot ,1 kill.
Shot out of a home made falling block ML w/ 110grs ffg. God blessed me that day w/ a great hunt. Didn't even see any forest circus guys to ruin it.

[9.3X62AL]

Our local deer season ended on Sunday, 11-6. I worked brush edges near burn sites with the 44 Special, but no shots were offered. I did see 4 deer taken on Sunday, one of them a good-sized muley 4 x 3. The USFS guy got collared at a store, and was obliged to sign off tags for the 4 lucky hunters. Since retiring, I can't do that any more.

Time to concentrate on upland birds now. Pheasant and fall turkey starts tomorrow.

[Scrounger]

Our local deer season ended on Sunday, 11-6. I worked brush edges near burn sites with the 44 Special, but no shots were offered. I did see 4 deer taken on Sunday, one of them a good-sized muley 4 x 3. The USFS guy got collared at a store, and was obliged to sign off tags for the 4 lucky hunters. Since retiring, I can't do that any more.

Time to concentrate on upland birds now. Pheasant and fall turkey starts tomorrow.

So now you'll be tripping over deer like they were stray dogs... Ain't it always the way???

[9.3X62AL]

Yeah, probably so. The deer season here is about a month too early, way too hot, and just plain out of kilter for good hunting. Right about the time conditions get decent, the season closes. Of course, I'm in a state where the crow was labeled a fully-protected songbird for a few years--and still can't be hunted where they do the most damage (in the Mojave Desert)--but I digress.

Gotta move back to the United States.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
GEECH! The crow a songbird, common sence in gov. :groner: