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rmatchell
08-25-2013, 07:00 PM
I have been reading on 45acp shot shell cases made from 308. I have been saving any neck splits or any other brass that I wasn't going to load again just for this purpose and I have finaly found the time to try it out. Here is what I have tried so far. I took a 308 case and trimmed it to 1.300 then marked the case length for 45acp. Then I ran the case through a 44 mag sizing die to the line, next through a 40sw sizing die, and then finished sizing in a the 45acp die. All in all it looks ok feeds from the mag and extracts just fine on the first try. Now my question for those who have tried what should I do for fireforming the case. Right now there is just enough lip to headspace but not sure if it is enough. Also does anybody have a pet load for these.

8025380254

45 2.1
08-25-2013, 08:05 PM
You know RCBS made reloading and case form dies for this....... I happen to have a spare set. The NRA published an article a long time ago now (probably your age now)........ The listed charge was with WW231...... what I remember is a higher charge than listed in the manuals, so I won't post it until I check my die set. The shot cartridge made this way uses a .410 wad cut off, filled with shot and an inverted 35 caliber gas check placed on top then crimped well. A 1911 with sharp throat rifling will sometimes stop functioning, but a semi worn throat allows a full magazine run semi-auto with no problems. Good 15 yard pattern and I shot rabbits running to 20 yards with it.

rmatchell
08-25-2013, 08:12 PM
I know they make a set of dies, but its just somthing to try. It would be nice to make it cycle but if it doesn't ill just move on to somthing else.

375RUGER
08-25-2013, 08:35 PM
I don't remember which section it is in, but not long ago GRUMPA did a real nice tutorial on how he does it.
....Found it
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?185253-Making-45acp-shotshells-(My-Way)

Scharfschuetze
08-25-2013, 08:54 PM
I've been loading these since the mid 1970s. They've proven quite useful for small vermin in the garden and until we had to turn in our 1911A1s, I always carried a couple of magazines of 'em when deployed overseas. They were quite useful for foraging extra protein to supplement C rats or MREs.

If you can, check the April 1976 issue of the "American Rifleman" for an article on them by C. E. Harris or Issue number 80 of the "Handloader" magazine for an article by Bushow from about 1977 or so. Techniques between the two articles vary in detail.

I use an RCBS form die and die set to form, size and roll crimp.

Cases: Lake City GI cases. Loading the initial rounds is a bit tedious, but once the case is formed it becomes much easier to reload 'em.
Case length: 1.2"
Primer: Any LP works fine as we're not looking for tight groups :)
Powder:6.0 grains of Olin 231
Wads: WW AA 410 plastic shot wad trimmed to fit into the case (I use a marked dowel to measure)
Top Wad: 35 calibre gas check crimped tightly to seal the shot
Shot: Numer 9, although any shot size up to 6 or so will do. Number 9 shot seems to be the best compromise for pattern density and lethality per pellet

At 10 feet, a snake is toast and in a survival situation just about any furry little animal is in the pot.

In my issue 1911A1s, they were fully functional as they are in my Series 70 1911 A1. It's kind of fun having a hand held shot gun. Unfortunately, the rifling spins the shot column as it transits the barrel and the centrifugal force opens up the shot pattern fairly fast.

hickfu
08-25-2013, 09:22 PM
Cool to see this thread, I wanted to try this someday.... I was thinking about getting an old worn out barrel and honing out the rifling to make it a smooth bore for shot shells. it only takes a few seconds to change out a barrel in the 1911.


Doc

45 2.1
08-25-2013, 09:36 PM
Cool to see this thread, I wanted to try this someday.... I was thinking about getting an old worn out barrel and honing out the rifling to make it a smooth bore for shot shells. it only takes a few seconds to change out a barrel in the 1911. Doc

The old worn out barrel works just fine with no problems from uncle...............

lightman
08-25-2013, 09:48 PM
45 2.1, would you be interested in selling that spare die set? Lightman

rmatchell
08-25-2013, 10:03 PM
thanks for the information guys. After looking at the pictures it looks like mine still need a lil work but its all in good fun. After playing with it a lil more it looks like I need to work on getting the headspacing just right, they feed from the mag and extract but not if you hand feed them.

dbosman
08-25-2013, 10:12 PM
Grumpa is selling formed casings.

dbosman
08-25-2013, 10:14 PM
Grumpa is selling formed casings.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?193178-45-ACP-Shot-Shell-Cases

DLCTEX
08-26-2013, 10:37 AM
I form the cut off 308 cases using a 41 Mag. size die. I use styrofoam take out tray wads cut with a sharpened case mouth that is drilled through so I can push the wads out. I use a 223 case to seat the wad over powder, add shot, place another wad over shot, press with 223 case, and seal with Dap Tub and Tile caulk. I use #9 shot as I bought 50 lbs. for $20 at a garage sale once. 3 gr. Bullseye works good and does not make doughnut holes in the pattern as heavier charges did. This will not operate the slide.

andremajic
08-26-2013, 11:49 AM
Anybody thought to use a trimmed down .40 s&w case to use as the shotshell wad?

Extra bonus would be the brass casing flying thru the air becomes another deadly projectile to small game.

Scharfschuetze
08-26-2013, 03:03 PM
Doc,

Remember that a smooth bore pistol barrel can get you into trouble with the ATF. I do have to admit that I've thought of this as well, but I've only used the shot shells as an option to the primary purpose of the pistol. Still, wouldn't that increase the effectiveness of these little rounds. Oh well.

RMatchell,

Don't try and load a 1911 like a single shot with the thick rim of the 7.62/308 cases. The extractor is designed to control feed the case from the magazine and you can damage it by trying to snap it over the rim when single loading. If you do want to do this (not recommended), use 30/06 or 270 brass as the extractor rim is much thinner on these cases than with the 308/7.62 NATO cases. That heavy rim on the 7.62 was probably designed by the military to hold up to the violence of extraction from the M-14 and M-60 series of weapons.

I'm missed your question on head space in the OP. To be honest, if you're a little short on HS, your strong extractor should hold the case against the primer just fine. While not the correct answer as proper HS is always a good thing, it does work. This is probably due to the heavy and thick rim on the 7.62 cases.

Andremagic,

That's an interesting idea, but the volume for shot in the case is rather limited and the brass/aluminium 40 S&W case (with it's case head depth for the primer) would probably make an already challenged shot shell even less potent. At .424" diameter, I don't think that a 40 S&W case would obturate and seal the bore.

rmatchell
08-26-2013, 03:51 PM
I ended up just ordering some brass made up already, it was cheaper in the long run. As for me feeding them by hand I was just trying to work on getting the head space right. All and all I look forward to playing with these.

brassrat
08-26-2013, 04:28 PM
How does this homemade stuff compare to the store bought Speer? I have some but never tried.

94Doug
08-26-2013, 10:27 PM
I use a 00 buck to hold the shot. I have an old article on using the dies, if anyone is interested, email me.

Doug

Mk42gunner
08-26-2013, 10:32 PM
The homemade shotshells work fine after a bit of load development. They are a lot cheaper to assemble than buying factory.

The .45 Win Mag is just about the perfect case to use for a .45ACP shotshell, without trimming. If I ever wear out the .243 cases that I am using now, I will buy a bag of them.

There are several different dies that can be made to work to modify cases instead of buying the quite spendy RCBS purpose built ones. There are even drawings that can be found on the net if you want to make your own on a lathe.

As long as the case feeds and chambers, there isn't much doubt that the firing pin on a 1911 pattern gun will reach the primer. Most of the ones that I have seen/ owned/ issued would protrude around a quarter of an inch before the fp spring binds and stops the firing pin.

There have been several threads on this subject over the years, a lot of info should come up with the search function.

Robert

rcav8r
08-28-2013, 02:17 PM
Interesting. I'd like to try this with my AR with the .45ACP upper from Olympic, as well as pistols.

I've got some old 30.06 blanks that got wet. Pulling them, depriming, etc. Not to mention any normal cases that wear out their necks.

So I would need the forming die, and the 3 die set for shotshell?

ETA: so it sounds like I might not be able to use the 30.06 cases, unless I want to chuck them up in a lathe or something to enlarge the groove. Oh well. I still want to try shotshells...

ETA2: Reading Grumpa thread now...Sounds like I really only need a .40 sizer die.

45 2.1
08-28-2013, 05:09 PM
I've got some old 30.06 blanks that got wet. Pulling them, depriming, etc. Not to mention any normal cases that wear out their necks.

The extractor groove is usually a bit tight. Most will show an extractor mark on the forward chamfer of the case. It works, but may be rough on the pistols extractor. As far as dies, you can form and trim the case with other dies, but the shotshell seating die rounds the mouth of the case into a radius that feeds well. Duplicating that might be harder to do.

rcav8r
08-28-2013, 06:19 PM
Scrounging through my brass, I found some .308, .243, and 7mm-08 cases that may also work.

now just need to get dies and such together.