Lee 358-125-RF

[crabo]

Is anyone using the Lee 358-125-RF? It's a .358 bullet, 125 grains, round-flat point. What are you using it for, and at what velocities do you find it works best?

I don't have any Lee molds and I was thinking I probably need one for my education. I got some from Ohio Rusty and I am about to start testing them.

Thanks,

Crabo

[PPpastordon]

crabo;
No, I do not use it. A guy I met in Mississippi that used a similar weight cast boolit, a 125 grain truncated cone, for hunting deer. It was hard cast, and that is about all I know about the boolit. He said it "hit hard" at around 1700 fps from his Contender, and was "great" for hunting deer.
Personally, I would like a heavier boolit; but I never shot a Mississippi deer. I would think it would be a better boolit for coyote or other smaller game.

[Bob Jones]

I shoot the 158-RF, just a little bigger. The RF profile shoots very well and has a good punch. Haven't taken any game yet with it but it should work well and I've shot some 50 yard groups of less than 2" with my so-so .357 revolver. I just tumble lube mine and no leading at all up to 1400 fps or so.

[GrizzLeeBear]

Crabo, it would probably help everyone if you let us know what your shooting it in. I don't have the 125 grainer, but from what I have read, it is a real "hit and miss" as far as whether or not your gun will shoot it. I have seen a number of people write that they can't get it to shoot with beans and just as many who can get it to shoot fine. Maybe something about the shape that makes if finicky?
For a good all around 357 bullet in a Lee mold, I think the Bob's suggestion on the 158-RF is a good one. You will find MANY here who get very good results with it. I have the mold but haven't gotten around to getting any cast with it yet. When I get some cast I will try them in a 357 mag. Contender and a GP-100.

[crabo]

I will be shooting it in a 8 3/8" 586 and a 4" 686 S&Ws. I have a really good 158 swc, (H&G 51 in a Ballisticast mold), but I was looking for something to shoot steel and to have low recoil for new shooters who I introduce to shooting. (not just the .22s)

[Bob Jones]

At least in my guns, the 158-RF really likes to be driven hard. It doesn't work at all for me in light loads. Just today was checking out a new gun to see, tried some loads with 4.5 grains of Clays for about 1000 fps or a little less, it was shooting a 7-8" scatter pattern at 25 yards. Tried another load with 13 grains of 2400 for about 1400 fps and shot a 1" group of 6 rounds. I think it's a funtion of the bullet profile, the 125 may suffer from the same issue, which would make it unsuitable for your purpose.

Or, on the other hand, it may just be my guns but be aware of that issue and see if you can find anyone using it for light loads with success before ordering. Maybe one of the truncated cone designs? Those seem to work well in plinkers, or even a good old fashioned wadcutter with the traditional 2.7 grains of Bullseye? Been billions of those shot with success.

[Dale53]

It is really hard to even meet much less beat the 148 gr WC for light loads. The traditional 2.7-3.0 grs of Bullseye work in every gun I have tried them in. Most will do under an inch at 25 yards and the recoil is really minor. They also make dandy edible small game loads.

Ed McGivern, the famous revolver shot was a big fan of 148 gr WC's loaded to full velocity. They are a VERY effective round for defense.

FWIW
Dale53

[felix]

Bob, in general, short boolits require a soft ignition for high pressure loads. You want the pressure to peak long after the boolit is fully supported within the barrel. What we are talking here is not exactly what the word "short" means, but implies. The implication is that the boolit center line must equal that of the barrel's upon boolit entry. Anything that knocks that concept out of kilter is what causes the inaccuracy. How the boolit starts out is therefore paramount. ... felix

[jhrosier]

I will be shooting it in a 8 3/8" 586 and a 4" 686 S&Ws. I have a really good 158 swc, (H&G 51 in a Ballisticast mold), but I was looking for something to shoot steel and to have low recoil for new shooters who I introduce to shooting. (not just the .22s)

I've shot many thousands of 125 gr cast boolits in my .357 revolvers. they were loaded in .38Spl cases over 2.5gr Bullseye. The load was used with very good results when I shot steel plates. I tried the load in my scoped Contender once, just out of curiousity, and found that they would shoot into one ragged hole at 25 yards. I gave the chambers a brushing every 50 or so rounds to keep the crud manageable. A good crimp ensured consistent ignition.

Jack

[Lloyd Smale]

Never had much luck with that bullet and like bob jones have found the 158 tends to be more accurate with a little push behind it. try the 105 lee swc. thats one shootin little bullet.

[crabo]

Lloyd, how would that bullet work in a 9mm?

[leadladen]

I have two of these moulds in 6C and have run thousands of round through them. I cast mostly WW alloy, as I shoot cowboy action, and run low velocities. The bullet, with this alloy runs closer to 130gr. I use the same load in rifle as I do in sixgun, and our range of distances have had great success with this bullet over 3.0gr of clays.

[Lloyd Smale]

runs just fine in my sti trojan 9mm and ran in the para p18 i had but wouldnt run in my 70 series colt or my 952 but then not much ran in that 952 shoots great in the trojan too.

[9.3X62AL]

Crabo et al--

I have used a couple different 120-125 grain 38 caliber boolits in the 9mm, they do very well in that application.

I've had uneven results with 110-125 grainers in 38 Special or 357 Magnum revolvers. To expand a bit upon Felix's internal ballistics text, what I think goes on with shorter (therefor lighter) projectiles in the revos is that the front drive band or other groove-diameter driving surface has not full engraved into the forcing cone before support on the rear end of the boolit/bullet is lost as the base clears the front of the cylinder throat. What I think occurs in absence of that base support prior to full engraving into the forcing cone is that boolits/bullets enter the barrel cock-eyed a majority of the time, causing expanded radial group dispersion via projectile distortion and/or off-center entry into the bore. I have seen this effect REPEATEDLY in many revolvers with the jacketed 110 grain bullets we once carried at work in our 38 Specials. I recall few of our service sidearms that shot the +P 110 grain loads nearly as well as they fired the issued practice wadcutters. Use of these same Winchester 110 JHP's (now out of print) in the 357 Magnum showed relative inaccuracy compared to 140-160 grain bullets/boolits, and the harder they were driven--the worse accuracy became. This follows Felix's line of reason very closely.

125 grain bullets in revos did a little better than the 110's, sometimes markedly so. I was one of the several shooters that conducted test-firings of ammo types in 357 Magnum when we expanded our ammo and platform selections into 357 Magnum and autopistols in 9mm and 45 ACP from the 38 Special in 1987. We used our own and Department sidearms in 357 Magnum--about 20 pieces, all told--to assess the merits of the vaunted 125 grain/1450 FPS 357 Mag load and the "standard" 158 grain JHP. Bottom line, over 7 shooters and ~20 platforms, the 158 grain load showed about 20% less radial dispersion out to 25 yards pretty consistently. This held true at 50 yards, too--but only 300 rounds or so were fired at that range, so I wouldn't take those accuracy results to the bank as readily as I would the 7/15/25 yard findings. The longer bullets just shot better in an assortment of guns fired by an assortment of shooters that fired at least several of the pieces used in the test.

From that time on, I have abandoned use of the 110-125 grain projectiles in the 38/357 calibers. 148 grain wadcutters and 150-170 grain boolits/bullets shoot so well in so many revolvers that for most purposes--I look no further.

[Bass Ackward]

I tried 125 grainers for poor results at first.

I finally got things to work. What turned everything around for me was increased neck tension and a heavy crimp along with .001 larger bullet diameter than what I was using with the heavier slugs. This apparently increased the neck tension and it also took a little time sizing down in the throat which allowed the fire to get going better. Load was 6.5 grains of Unique to 8 grains of AA#5.

Because they are more difficult for me to load, they need to be a little harder than my longer bearing area stuff.

[Dale53]

Al;
I have never worked with the lighter bullets in .38 and .357's. In fact, I guess you could say I am not a light bullet fan. At any rate, after reading of your experience, I will just "walk on by" regarding light bullets in the above calibers.

In .38's and .357's my preference is W/C's for target and 158 gr SWC for serious.

Dale53