Saw the neatest Remington trick today

[Nobade]

A fellow brought in a NIB Rem 700, 270 Win, for us to mount a scope on for him. When I tried to put the collimator spud in the bore, it was very loose. So I got out the gauge pins to check it. Wow - .277". I poured a cerrosafe slug and sure enough, the groove diameter was right on at .284". But it headspaced perfectly on a 30-06 GO gauge. Looking at it with the borescope, there was no throat at all. Sure enough they had used a 7MM barrel and chambered and marked it 270 Win! It took a while on the phone to explain to the lady at Remington what I had there, but as soon as she figured it out you could tell she was pretty excited and said she'd send out a call tag right away. That sure is some QC those guys have going now! I bet it passed the proof firing and didn't have any pressure problems at least.

-Nobade

[tomme boy]

It passed because they did not pressure test it. They only do about 1 out of 100 from what I was told.

[Artful]

I new a gunsmith up in Oregon who got one the other way around - chambered in 30'06 - customer complained it kicked too hard - AL took it to the range and shot it and yep didn't act like he expected - found out the barrel was too small a caliber for the .30'06 - Remington quickly said they'd rebarrel it.

[Lloyd Smale]

alot of guys complain about the newer remingtons but not me. Ive got a cheap sps in 06 that is flat out the best shooting sporter weight bolt gun ive ever owned. I also have a stainless sps in 300 win and a cdl in 257 and both of them are moa guns. I havent found one of those supposidly **** guns yet. they still hands down outshoot the newer ruger hawkeyes i have.

[Nobade]

It passed because they did not pressure test it. They only do about 1 out of 100 from what I was told.

It had been proof tested - that was easy to see by the powder fouling in the bore and brass on the bolt face. I have never seen one that hadn't been, and I buy a lot of new Remingtons to build custom rifles on. At any rate, there wouldn't have been any pressure problems with this one, just no accuracy firing a bore diameter bullet through it.

-Nobade

[Nobade]

I new a gunsmith up in Oregon who got one the other way around - chambered in 30'06 - customer complained it kicked too hard - AL took it to the range and shot it and yep didn't act like he expected - found out the barrel was too small a caliber for the .30'06 - Remington quickly said they'd rebarrel it.

I wonder how they did that? The pilot on the reamer shouldn't go into the bore to allow them to cut a chamber. I sure would like to see exactly how they do cut the chambers in these rifles, I suspect they are mostly forged in place then finish reamed once the rifle is put together. Most of the new guns I see have blued chambers but the shoulder is bright. Probably using a pull through reamer to set the headspace so they can cut until the bolt drops. Some day I'd like to get to have a look at that factory.

-Nobade

[RickinTN]

Several years ago (about 30) a friend bought an as-new used 742 at a gun show and asked if I would mount his new Leupold scope and sight it in for him. After almost 2 full boxes of factory ammo (I started at 50 yards and moved the target closer) it wouldn't reliably stay on a 12" x 12" target at 50 feet. Throughout all these years I've suspected it was the same or similar situation with his rifle but I had no way back then to take measurements to confirm.
Rick

[aspangler]

We had one of the new Remingtons come into the shop a couple months ago that had the tang and trigger broke. Brand new broke taking it out of the box! Turned out the receiver was made of ... you guessed it... PLASTIC! Don't think that I would have wanted to shoot that rifle and it was chambered in 300Win mag. Only thing holding the pressure was the bolt and the chamber. I'll stick to something a little more substantial than plastic for a receiver.

[Love Life]

Hold the phone. The entire receiver was made of plastic? That does not seem plausible.

[725]

I'd like to hear more about a "plastic" receiver. That would be a new one for sure.

[Jupiter7]

I've got a 2013 manufactured 700 sps in 300BLK, trigger guard is plastic. Receiver is NOT, nor is the bottom metal. I'd love to see how they'd mate a steel barrel to a plastic receiver and hold zero after a couple shots.

[rockrat]

Might have a metal insert where the bolt locks up in the front

[rr2241tx]

It's a wonder that more of these 'tain't guns don't show up given the number of rifles Remington has been cranking out the last 5 years.

[MBTcustom]

Hold the phone. The entire receiver was made of plastic? That does not seem plausible.

I have seen something like this with the new 770 and 710 models. I don't recall exactly what I saw, I actually thought it looked like zinc, but could have been plastic.
The way this is accomplished is that the lugs are machined right into the barrel and the "action" is nothing more than a guide for the bolt.
At the time I saw that, I thought it was absolutely genius and is a much more ideal sytem than having the action to be a kind of housing that interfaces the bolt to the barrel.
It's simpler, and much more straight forward, and cheaper to make if you're a major manufacturer, but unfortunately, they threw the quality out the window with the rest of the gun, and there is no way that a gunsmith could screw on a decent barrel without doing some really fancy footwork.

The good news is that it is a fairly accurate system (junky sticky bolt notwithstanding) and gets a man a scoped MOAish rifle for less than $400.

Thanks for the heads up Nobade. I'll be watching for these issues.

[Rick R]

A fellow brought in a NIB Rem 700, 270 Win, for us to mount a scope on for him. When I tried to put the collimator spud in the bore, it was very loose. So I got out the gauge pins to check it. Wow - .277". I poured a cerrosafe slug and sure enough, the groove diameter was right on at .284". But it headspaced perfectly on a 30-06 GO gauge. Looking at it with the borescope, there was no throat at all. Sure enough they had used a 7MM barrel and chambered and marked it 270 Win! It took a while on the phone to explain to the lady at Remington what I had there, but as soon as she figured it out you could tell she was pretty excited and said she'd send out a call tag right away. That sure is some QC those guys have going now! I bet it passed the proof firing and didn't have any pressure problems at least.

-Nobade
Sounds like they'd made a custom .280 Rem (or a 7mm Express :?: ) with a very short throat. :D

[Nobade]

Headspace gauge for the 280 is different. I thought the exact same thing, I can't remember right now if the 280 is longer or shorter (I believe it is longer) to prevent 280 ammo from being chambered in a 270. This one was spot on for a 270.

-Nobade

[TCLouis]

With any sort of luck that factory will be right here in TN one day in the near future.

Seems Remington may have realized they are not welcome in NY.

Hope they realize TN is a free state and will welcome them.

[Three44s]

I have a stainless 700 in 7 RM from around 2004 (old trigger) and it flat out shoots lights out!!

Three 44s

[Reverend Al]

Funny you should mention that! Years ago when I was first working in the gun business our store sold a brand new Browning BBR rifle in .270 Winchester and the customer (who was a good friend of mine) said he couldn't get the gun to print on paper to get it sighted in so would I please take it out and shoot it for him? I took the rifle out to my local range and shot it at 100 yards and the bullet just barely touched the top edge of the paper, so I set a target at 25 yards to start closer and work out and then I touched off another round. The bullet printed dead sideways through the paper ... an absolute perfect silhouette of a flat based spitzer bullet! Again, when we checked it out we found that it was a .284 / 7mm barrel chambered and factory stamped by Browning as a .270 Winchester. Same situation too ... Browning had us send the gun back to them immediately for a warranty re-barrel job and then it shot great!
:oops:


A fellow brought in a NIB Rem 700, 270 Win, for us to mount a scope on for him. When I tried to put the collimator spud in the bore, it was very loose. So I got out the gauge pins to check it. Wow - .277". I poured a cerrosafe slug and sure enough, the groove diameter was right on at .284". But it headspaced perfectly on a 30-06 GO gauge. Looking at it with the borescope, there was no throat at all. Sure enough they had used a 7MM barrel and chambered and marked it 270 Win! It took a while on the phone to explain to the lady at Remington what I had there, but as soon as she figured it out you could tell she was pretty excited and said she'd send out a call tag right away. That sure is some QC those guys have going now! I bet it passed the proof firing and didn't have any pressure problems at least.

-Nobade

[Nobade]

Yep, I am sure this one will be just fine when it comes back!

That's pretty wild that Browning would do that too. Those barrels are pretty close together in size though, and it would be an easy thing to do if you weren't paying attention.

-Nobade

[UBER7MM]

With a 280 ream, go gauge and a little cutting oil that rifle could be a 280 Rem really quick. If the owner wants, expects and paid for a 270 Win, then that's he/she should have.

[waksupi]

Keep in mind in most production firearms factories, the assemblers are basically semi-trained monkeys.

[Love Life]

I have seen something like this with the new 770 and 710 models. I don't recall exactly what I saw, I actually thought it looked like zinc, but could have been plastic.
The way this is accomplished is that the lugs are machined right into the barrel and the "action" is nothing more than a guide for the bolt.
At the time I saw that, I thought it was absolutely genius and is a much more ideal sytem than having the action to be a kind of housing that interfaces the bolt to the barrel.
It's simpler, and much more straight forward, and cheaper to make if you're a major manufacturer, but unfortunately, they threw the quality out the window with the rest of the gun, and there is no way that a gunsmith could screw on a decent barrel without doing some really fancy footwork.

The good news is that it is a fairly accurate system (junky sticky bolt notwithstanding) and gets a man a scoped MOAish rifle for less than $400.

Thanks for the heads up Nobade. I'll be watching for these issues.

Zinc and/or plastic receivers are just gross. Ewwww.

[Paints-n-cows]

How about this on a Winchester Model 70. I bought the rifle from a guy second hand. It had a Leupold VariX III on it but while sighting it in, I couldn't get enough windage to get it on the paper. When I took the scope off, I discovered why.

Funniest thing was that the guy said it shot really nice groups.

Anyway, Winchester took it back and made it right even though I was not the original purchaser.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c208/Paints-n-cows/0703102314a_zps7bfbdafd.jpg (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/Paints-n-cows/media/0703102314a_zps7bfbdafd.jpg.html)

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c208/Paints-n-cows/0703102314_zps726acb39.jpg (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/Paints-n-cows/media/0703102314_zps726acb39.jpg.html)

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c208/Paints-n-cows/0709101110_zps7c69d8fd.jpg (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/Paints-n-cows/media/0709101110_zps7c69d8fd.jpg.html)

[Ledslnger]

I thought the neat trick might be you saw 2 Remmy rimfire cartridges fire in a row. LOL
From what I have heard most of the new Remmy rifles are poor in quality. Maybe 50/50 good to bad rifle ratio. For me, that is a serious gamble for the $$$. Especially when you can get a Ruger, Savage, or Tikka and not risk throwing your hard earned $$$ away.

[43PU]

Amen to that I won't touch Remington's at our store we send 5-6 back a month. They have a repair store in Paducah Kentucky as a matter or fact, I had a rem 700 SPS tactical in 308 win that the "X-Mark" trigger was stuck from the factory at 7 lbs when you adjusted the screw in or out it did not matter it stayed a 7 lbs. the best group anyone could get with it at 100 yards was 3 inches with 175 grn match kings. I called Remington and sent it back and they said everything meets factory specs that the SPS has no factory MOA warranty. That was the last Remington I bought. For now on it is Savage for me!

43pu

[Nobade]

I see plenty of messed up Savages too. Remington doesn't have a monopoly on poor QC.

-Nobade

[Reg]

Even the best of them drop the ball now and then. Ordered in a new M- 70 Win from the custom shop no less for a fellow years ago. Tried mounting the scope and something just didn't seem right, Got to checking things out and the whole rear ring was machined crooked by about .015. Not twisted, crooked. It was Christmas and it was a present so at the urging of the buyer I did a bit of machine work to the Redfield base and all was well. Had it been mine it would have gone back.

[ebner glocken]

I bought a used SPS 3006 a few weeks ago. The barrel feels right when running a patch through it but so far it's 1.4 inch at best, some loads in the 3 minute range. The jury is still out on it as it's not free floated, this will be the next step. The trigger is tuned down to a reasonable level and I'm thinking that I might be able to get most loads to get the MOA I want. Sometimes there is some work to this but then again if it was always easy it wouldn't be much fun. BTW rare a rifle just doesn't like ballistic tips, this one shoots shotgun patterns @100, 4064 and IMR 4350 with 180s. Sierra 168, 180, barnes X 168s show promise.

Ebner

[MBTcustom]

I bought a used SPS 3006 a few weeks ago. The barrel feels right when running a patch through it but so far it's 1.4 inch at best, some loads in the 3 minute range. The jury is still out on it as it's not free floated, this will be the next step. The trigger is tuned down to a reasonable level and I'm thinking that I might be able to get most loads to get the MOA I want. Sometimes there is some work to this but then again if it was always easy it wouldn't be much fun. BTW rare a rifle just doesn't like ballistic tips, this one shoots shotgun patterns @100, 4064 and IMR 4350 with 180s. Sierra 168, 180, barnes X 168s show promise.

Ebner

I'm rebareling one of those right now. I find the SS 30-06 barrels absolutely everywhere because so many people gave up on them. I think they had a bad run. My client is going broke trying to get this sucker to shoot! First he had another smith put on a Bell and Carlson stock, then he brought it to me, and I bedded it and recrowned the barrel. 3.5" groups at 100 yards with Hornady premium ammo.
Now I'm putting on a takeoff barrel from a SS Tika T3 hunter. That should do it.
I also noticed that the front of the action was about .005 out of square. Fixed that too.

[EDG]

About 20 years ago the owner of a large local gunshop (about 20 employees) smirked and said they got a Rem 700 in that shop with no hole in the barrel. I am not sure if that comment was true but it makes me wonder now.

[45 Bravo]

Model 710 had a full length polymer insert within the steel receiver that was to act as a bolt guide.

Not the best idea they ever had...

[Ledslnger]

I see plenty of messed up Savages too. Remington doesn't have a monopoly on poor QC.

-Nobade

Honestly, I shoot the breeze with a lot of people when at the local range and I hear people complain about Remmy over and over again. Not the old stuff just the newer, but it doesn't matter whether we are talking guns or ammo. The complaints are 99% Remmy with the other 1% being all the other companies combined. I haven't really heard much at all regarding the quality of Savage products though.

[45 Bravo]

On the Remmy ammo issue, a while back, I bought 6 of the 325 round boxes of .22 ammo, and no almost every round, the projectile was so loose in the case, they would wiggle and could be spun by very little finger pressure.

They shot ok, but definitely a quality control issue..

[Artful]

With the demand for guns and ammo I'm not surprised quality control has slipped

[gandydancer]

I have a friend who works at Remington and you wouldn't believe what the model 770 cost Remington to mfg. Its so cheap I still find it hard to believe. must check and see what retail is.
Starting at $373.00 (MSRP)

[ebner glocken]

Well, I floated the barrel. Hogged that thing out with some 80 grit where a bill would run right up to the ring, this somehow conjured up something magical. It still blew winchester 147 fmjs everywhere, not fond of 180 ballistic tips either..... Then I shot a group with 168 MK 48.8 IMR 4064 in .554", 180 sierra BTSP same charge in .700", federal 165 factory from walmart in .599". All 3 shot groups, tried other 150 grain bullets w/o much luck. If I could figure out this new camera and chrome I would post pics (not a computer guy), saved the targets before and after. Thursday was a good day.

Funny thing, a friend was with me with one of the later ADLs in 243 that was doing the same thing. He seen these groups and said "what did you do to that thing?". He sanded his down yesterday and we'll see what happens.

Ebner

[ebner glocken]

before
82528
after
82529

82530

Ebner

[horsesoldier]

I have had one Remington 700 and I will never have another. It was a 300 winchester and I could barely close the bolt on factory ammo.Sad excuse for a 700 dollar rifle. I shoot Tikka's now for my hunting guns

[Nobade]

Well, Remington did replace it under warranty. Except they didn't rebarrel it, they gave him a whole new rifle so we had to get him to do a 4472 and transfer it to him. But it works well now and he is a happy customer. I like their work order, "Barrel found to be oversize." Well yeah...

-Nobade

[Artful]

Wonder if they are keeping it as a training aid, or if just wanted to speed up the process, or if they found something wrong with the action or were afraid the action was overstressed somehow for liability reasons?

[Nobade]

Wonder if they are keeping it as a training aid, or if just wanted to speed up the process, or if they found something wrong with the action or were afraid the action was overstressed somehow for liability reasons?

Probably just cheaper to pull a new rifle off the line.

-Nobade

[rnhathaway]

Recently saw a .375 H&H with a barrel that was .090" out of concentricity at the muzzle. Customer wanted a muzzle break installed. Needless to say, that didn't happen.