30-30 Brass necked up to 38-55

[Dean2]

38-55 brass is hard to come by so I have been trying to neck up some 30-30 brass. The brass starts out 2.03-2.04, which is already short. By the time I neck it up and FL size it, it is down to 1.95. Considering this is a Winchester 94 made in 1896 and usually uses 2.125 long brass I was wondering if any of you guys had any suggestions for better brass to try forming.

Since I can make them easily, and out of curiosity, I plan to try some real light cast loads with the short brass, just to see what I get for accuracy and performance but being .17 short I am not going to hold my breath.

Anyone else have data using the necked up 30-30, as to results and loads that suit the short brass?.

[williamwaco]

I made about 200 of them when I first got my .38-55.

Sizing them up is workable but you will have a lot of splits. I used three steps - .338 then .357, then .375.

Fore forming them is MUCH easier and produces a slightly longer case with almost no losses.

I made mine by loading the .30-30 cases with the Lyman 3118 over 6 grains of Unique.
You will not be able to hit anything with these loads. Just shoot them up to make cases.

The bad news is that you will not be able to crimp them if you are using cast bullets.
Even the longest are not long enough to reach the crimp ring in the sizing die.

I ran them back into the resizing die to remove the flare.

I no longer use them. Don't know what to do with them. Thinking about one of those .22 caliber wild cats.
Doesn't make much sense to spend over a thousand bucks on a wildcat rifle to use those cases.


.

[26Charlie]

When the .375 Winchester came out, that is how we made cases, but the fire forming load was 6 grains of pistol powder with the rest cornmeal, and some candle wax dribbled in to hold it together. be careful of the muzzle blast of these fireforming rounds, it is dangerous, as you will find out if you shoot them into a wadded up t-shirt in the shop. You can crimp them with a bullet if you have a .375 Win die or a Lee factory crimp die, and can regulate the overall length to suit the rifle. A little extra bullet hanging out in the neck area of the chamber won't hurt anything.

[Nobade]

I have done that too. Using grease groove boolits (as opposed to paper patched ones) and smokeless powder it worked reasonably well. Just seat the boolit to the normal overall length for a 38-55. Didn't work worth a darn with black powder though. Having that boolit bump up to fill the chamber and then get smashed back down entering the bore didn't do them any favors.

-Nobade

[cwheel]

I've been down this road as well. I have a 94 made in 1917. If you slug the bore you will find it is in the .379 range. I fireformed some 30:30 brass with 6 gr. of Unique and filled the rest of the case with Cream of Wheat. Installed a wax plug to keep it all in there and it formed well. After trimming the cases, I was able to maintain a 2.00 OAL on the cases. These cases will work OK in a single shot. For a 94 we need a crimp because of the tube mag and you can't get your crimping die to go low enough to do that, even a lee factory crimp die. I'd say bite the boolit here and go buy some Starline Brass, get on the list, it's not that expensive. A little Winchester history. Turns out the bores on 38-55's made from start up until about 1920 have a .379 bore. After that they went to .377, just a little smaller, some are reported as small as .375. If yours slugs out to .379 as mine did, you are going to need to size your boolits to .381 to get a proper fit. I did try smaller, it leads and key-holes at any range. Next problem is when you put a .381 boolit into a Winchester case that is 2.118 long, it won't chamber because the brass thickness combines with the boolit dia to go over chamber size. Best way to get around this is to buy Starline Brass with thinner case walls. My Winchester brass had to be sized and have a .377 reamer run in after sizing so the round didn't get to big after the boolit was seated. I caution anyone who might want to try this, only way I made it work was to ream each and every case in a lathe to keep it in the center. Also, if you are seating a .381 boolit into a case, you will need a expander that is in the .379 range. RCBS makes a larger expander for the cowboy set, largest production model is .3775,
still to small for the old larger bore. I'm set up here to make my own, not a problem, you are going to need someone to make this plug for you to successfully reload for the larger bore. A call to RCBS might get you one make, who else does it, unknown. Good luck with yours, had lots of fun working on mine,
Chris

[TXGunNut]

Buffalo Arms makes custom expanders, one of our members does as well, IIRC.

[Dean2]

I made about 200 of them when I first got my .38-55.

Sizing them up is workable but you will have a lot of splits. I used three steps - .338 then .357, then .375.

Fore forming them is MUCH easier and produces a slightly longer case with almost no losses.

I made mine by loading the .30-30 cases with the Lyman 3118 over 6 grains of Unique.
You will not be able to hit anything with these loads. Just shoot them up to make cases.

The bad news is that you will not be able to crimp them if you are using cast bullets.
Even the longest are not long enough to reach the crimp ring in the sizing die.

I ran them back into the resizing die to remove the flare.

I no longer use them. Don't know what to do with them. Thinking about one of those .22 caliber wild cats.
Doesn't make much sense to spend over a thousand bucks on a wildcat rifle to use those cases.


.

I used two steps, 338, then 375 and just ran them over the expander plug in a 338 Win mag and Ruger 375 die. I didn't suffer any splits using Imperial wax in the neck and on the case. I finished them by running them through the Lee FL die to true them up.

I can screw down my Lee seating die far enough to put a roll crimp on even the short cases, in fact I had to back it off just a hair as it crumpled a couple so no shortage of crimp available. ( I don't have one of the specialised crimp dies and so far don't think I will need one. The Lee three die set is new production and according to the instruction sheet is built for the 2.08 case length.)

For fire forming I am just going to feed them single so crimp isn't a big deal. I am hoping that firing some 379 cast over 4759 or 4198 will lengthen them out a little more, then I can trim them all to a consistent length. It shoots the 220 grain Hornady .375 jacketed handloads into about an inch and a half at 100 yards. It also shoots old 1600 FPS Dominion 255 grain .375 jacketed bullets into about 2.0" at 100 yards so I think the .379 cast should be pretty accurate. (The Dominion boxes have a price of 2.99 on the box so can just imagine how old that is.)

I already put in an order for some 2.125 Starline brass. Will see how long it takes to show up but in the meantime I have some brass to play with.

I appreciate all the info and feedback from all the posters. I have learned a lot reading on here but this is my first post, despite being signed up for a couple of years. Appreciate the help.

[hornady308]

I shoot 38-55 reformed from 30-30 brass with no problems. I fireform the 30-30 with 5.0 gr Green Dot and COW. I seat the Lee 250 gr bullets so the oal is 2.500, then use the Lee factory crimp die just take the flare out of the case mouth. Accurate and works well in my 375 Marlin, 38-55 Marlin and 375 Contender.

[Pepe Ray]

The old dimensions for the 38-55 were obsoleted when the industry decided that the cartridge wasn't going to die.
Only a few years after Winchester discontinued it, the demand persisted so they resurected it about the same time they introduced the 375. But the 38-55 came out shorter than original. At this point SAAMI decided it needed to standardize it.

Many of us 38-55 lovers have both old and new chambers.
A trick I use is to scrounge gun shows and gun shops with junk boxes for used dies. Obtain a used seating die, shorten it as needed. Crimp any length you desire.

Just be aware that old cartridges are better worked with dies manufactured for the old dimensions.
Pepe Ray

[OverMax]

You can make 30-30 brass from 32 special. You can make 32 special from 32-40. You can make 32-40 from 38-55. When it comes to 38-55. All you can do is whistle Dixie I guess as. "It ain't easy being a re-loader these days."

[northmn]

I tried it and the rifle patterned more than it grouped. Went to Starline and it grouped. Some like the longer Starline and then trim to length.

DP

[ColColt]

You may be able to find that brass here...

http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/ji123.html

...or here depending on the length you need.

http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/ji123a.html

[Taylor3006]

You can make 30-30 brass from 32 special. You can make 32 special from 32-40. You can make 32-40 from 38-55. When it comes to 38-55. All you can do is whistle Dixie I guess as. "It ain't easy being a re-loader these days."

Don't mean to sidetrack the thread, are 38-55 cases hard to find? I have a dozen or more boxes of them, NOS Winchester from like the 60's or 70's. I planned on offering them up once I got enuff posts under my belt but if someone is really needing them, can check with a mod to see if it's ok to list them early.

[Dean2]

Don't mean to sidetrack the thread, are 38-55 cases hard to find? I have a dozen or more boxes of them, NOS Winchester from like the 60's or 70's. I planned on offering them up once I got enuff posts under my belt but if someone is really needing them, can check with a mod to see if it's ok to list them early.

Not real hard to come by, it is just that the Starline is about $50 a hundred and they make big runs about twice a year. New Winchester is about the same but the Starline is actually better brass.

Like all reloaders, saving money so I can shoot more is always a consideration. If a guy can make it cheaper, and it works just as well, that is always a big appeal.

[samwithacolt]

I blew out a bunch of .30-30 with bullseye and
a caseful of cornmeal. I was a little worried about them
being shorter, but now I want to trim some even shorter to
allow a larger calibre boolit to chamber.

[Dean2]

I switched from Winchester to Dominion in the sizing because I ran out of Winchester. The Dominion comes out at 2.005, so a little longer. It must be a bit stiffer though as this time I did get some neck splits with these, despite the necks being the same .1 thickness as the Winchester. Split about 4 out of 50 cases, but they did re-size up very nicely. Just in the process of tumbling them clean and will load up some trial rounds for the weekend.

[williamwaco]

I used two steps, 338, then 375 and just ran them over the expander plug in a 338 Win mag and Ruger 375 die. I didn't suffer any splits using Imperial wax in the neck and on the case. I finished them by running them through the Lee FL die to true them up.

I can screw down my Lee seating die far enough to put a roll crimp on even the short cases, in fact I had to back it off just a hair as it crumpled a couple so no shortage of crimp available. ( I don't have one of the specialised crimp dies and so far don't think I will need one. The Lee three die set is new production and according to the instruction sheet is built for the 2.08 case length.)

For fire forming I am just going to feed them single so crimp isn't a big deal. I am hoping that firing some 379 cast over 4759 or 4198 will lengthen them out a little more, then I can trim them all to a consistent length. It shoots the 220 grain Hornady .375 jacketed handloads into about an inch and a half at 100 yards. It also shoots old 1600 FPS Dominion 255 grain .375 jacketed bullets into about 2.0" at 100 yards so I think the .379 cast should be pretty accurate. (The Dominion boxes have a price of 2.99 on the box so can just imagine how old that is.)

I already put in an order for some 2.125 Starline brass. Will see how long it takes to show up but in the meantime I have some brass to play with.

I appreciate all the info and feedback from all the posters. I have learned a lot reading on here but this is my first post, despite being signed up for a couple of years. Appreciate the help.

I need to get one of those Lee seating dies. I bough the Lee FCD but it will not crimp those short cases.

I currently use the Starline cases.

[ColColt]

I just got an email from Graf and Sons they have the brass. I ordered 100 cases. Anyone looking for Starline 38-55 brass give them a look.

[OverMax]

Taylor3006: These days everything in brass is in short supply including 38-55.
I don't shoot a 38-55 myself. {But thanks for the offer I appreciate it.} What I was pointing out in my comment. I don't think there is a parent cartridge to the 38-55. So as anyone can read many fellows now are making due swagging some other cartridge brass to fill the gap. (30-30s) as mentioned. Its similar to shooting 45-70 out of a 45-90 rifle. Works. But not quite the same as having the real Mc Coy available.

[mroliver77]

You want to anneal the cases before fireforming or die opening. Much better results and brass performs better and lasts. Most dies size for .375 bullets and overwork the brass.