Colt: just a shell of the company they once were.

[MBTcustom]

It pains me to tell you this, but Colt is not the company that they used to be. Not even the shell of the company that I thought they were.
I had bad dealings with Colt over the last month, and I waited until I had calmed down a bit before posting this. If you are a die-hard Colt fan, then more power to ya, and I apologize for telling you this, but you might as well know.

It all started about a month ago, when a client brought in a Colt that was jammed up really bad, and asked me to fix it. This piece looked brand spankin new, not a single scratch on it, and looked like it was blued yesterday. It was an aluminum framed commander length, and was blue on black.
There was a shell casing jammed in the barrel, and the slide was about 1/4" back, and locked tight as a drum. I managed to get the bushing out of the front of the gun without scratching the slide, and got the recoils spring and follower out after that. After careful examination, I decided that the gun had unlocked prematurely, and had pinched the link. I put a brass drift on the barrel hood and with a few sharp raps from a brass hammer, the gun unlocked. Careful examination led me to believe that the parts were all original.
I took it with me on my next range trip, and sure enough it jammed again.
I told my client that since it is obviously a manufacturers defect (I'm guessing that they put the wrong size link in there) it would be best to send it back to Colt and let them make it right.
The client agreed.
I boxed it up with the brass still lodged in the barrel, along with a cordial letter explaining that the brass was empty, and asking for them to get in touch with me if they needed more information.
A week passed.
Then two.
Then three.
I looked up the tracking number and saw that the package had been received a few days after I had sent it, so I called up Colt to find out what the holdup was.
Eventually, after long hold times, I got in touch with a guy who asked me what my customer number was.
I told him I didn't have any idea. No information had been sent to me.
He asked me if I knew my repair order number?
I replied again that there was no way for me to know that having not received so much as a carrier pigeons worth of information from them, much less an e-mail!
He then asked for my zip code, which he used to look up the information.
He said he would see what the deal was, and send me an email.
This is what I got:
NOTE: GUN NEEDS NEW SLIDE AND BARREL. LOCKING LUGS ARE DAMAGED AND CAUSING PREMATURE
UNLOCK. THIS GUN WAS MADE IN 1969 AND DOES NOT FALL UNDER COLT'S SERVICE AGREEMENT. COLT
DOES NOT CURRENTLY MANUFACTURE A SLIDE OR BARREL THAT IS AN EXACT MATCH. WE CAN USE A SLIDE
AND BARREL FROM A 04840WC COST IS $399

Needless to say, I was shocked that they wanted my client to pay $400 to fix their mistake.
I let the client know, and he was understandably hacked off. I believe an exact quote was "this is BS!"
I called Colt back and talked to the same fellow again, and asked if they really intended to charge my client $400 to repair a gun that was damaged by their negligence in manufacture.
He told me that there was nothing that he could do. That they only take responsibility for guns that were manufactured after 1997, and this one was made in 1969........... (WHAT!!!!!)
I was bioling inside, but I remained extremely civil and told him that I knew he was just doing his job, but he was not going to be able to help me. I told him that "I need to take this to the next level, can you help me do that? who do I need to be talking to?"
He told me that he could get me in touch with his boss, but that his boss was out to lunch, so just leave a message on his machine, and he'll get right back to me.
I did so, and again was very professional and courteous, but let him know what the problem was (I honestly believed that this would be taken care of, and that it was just some red tape BS that I was dealing with.)
Well, I waited. Oh ****, here we go agian!
Several days later I called back, and talked to a nice young lady and told her who I was trying to get in touch with, and that I was getting tired of waiting to talk to people. She assured me that she was a pitbull, and that she would get someone on the phone to me pronto, but again, this guy was out of pocket for some reason.
I waited.
I called again the next day, got a different girl and told her in no uncertain terms that I wanted to talk to her boss!
She told me that he was not in the office right then.
I told her that I was tired of getting jerked around, and I expected a call by the end of the day!
A few hours later, this yay-hoo calls me. I started out explaining my problem, but he started feeding me the same line that the peon had been!
I came unglued. I told him that I i couldn't believe they were going to charge my client $400 freakin dollars to repair a screwup that they made, that could have easily cost someone their life!
He said, that there was nothing that he could do. He couldn't make that call.
I asked him who could?!?!?
He said his boss, the head of the company....
I asked him why the $%^I wasn't talking to him then!?!?!?
He said he would make sure that he gives me a call.
I asked him when.
He said he would call me today.

A few hours later, I get a phone call. This joker starts in on the same line as the others.
1997, cant do this, wont do that.
In my life, no one has ever received the level of butt chewing that this guy got from me. Maybe not $399 worth, but pretty close. I told him that I didn't care that they only have 20 employees working there, I don't care that the company has been bought out and changed hands 3 times. The fact is that darned horse used to mean something, and that's the only reason anybody would buy their product at the ridiculous price they are selling them for.
That darned horse is what people are buying, because it stands for guaranteed quality. Quality that you can bet your life on. You suckers are just riding the name, and milking it for all it's worth!
The guy kept arguing with me the entire time, and trying to make me see how right it was that the customers pay for a manufacturers defect. How fair it was, for them not to be held responsible for a product that has their trademark on it.
Then he started telling me that a lot could happen since 1969. Any garage shop hack could have gotten in there and bubba'd up the gun.
I aked him if he had seen the gun?
He said he had it in his hand as we were speaking.
I said let me tell you something. I'm a gunsmith. I had that gun all apart before I sent it to you, and I personally stuck that shell in there. I know that pistol is all original, and I know what the problem is. You put an undersized link in there, and it made it unlock prematurely!
You know what? I'm done. You have successfully destroyed any respect I had for your company, or for you. I will not ever buy your products, I will not transfer your products, I will not work on your products, and I'll be darned if I ever say anything positive about Colt ever again. Thank you for setting me straight.


The part that really got me was that this dude was a slick talker. A little too slick. You know the type.
He ended up knocking it down to $150, but I'm not holding my breath that the gun will come back any better than it left.

You compare this experiance to what happened with Ruger the other day, and it all comes into perspective.
I had a different client with a MKI pistol made in 1953. It had had a rough life, had been abused, and there was hardly any bluing left on it. He brought it to me, because the upper had become so loose on the lower, that it would rattle like a penny in a popcan when you shook it.
I sent it to ruger with a cordial letter asking that they send me a quote. 6 days later it was back in my shop, cleaned, repaired and test fired 40 times, with a special letter telling my client how glad they are to have his business.

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.
Needless to say, I recommend Ruger handguns to anyone that will listen to me, followed by a stern warning to steer clear of guns with horses stamped on them.

Honestly, I almost want to cry over this. My dad owns a Colt, my grandpa used one in WWII, my great grandpa probably used one as well, and so did his father if he was anything like the rest of my folks.
That all ends here. With me. What a lousy company.
The good news is that Ruger is making the R1 1911. I believe I will go that route instead.

It took the people at Colt 4 weeks to convince me that they have really sunk this low, but after much effort, and several hours on the phone, they finally convinced me to never do business with them again.

[MBTcustom]

One more thing.
What really got me was when the guy told me that they only had 20 employees there at colt, and that they are not a big company.
Tell me: what does that say about them if you read between the lines?
What guns are they still producing?
The kinds that can be made with cheap parts, and assembled. There is no way that Colt could produce everything that they do unless they are outsourcing all of the parts.
There were many such details that came to light in our conversation. I got the guy riled up and he spilled his guts on accident.
They don't even make their own guns anymore! Colt is a bunch of accountants and a few assemblers riding the name for all it's worth.

For the record, I take no more pleasure in posting this, than you probably do in reading it.
It makes me sick every time I think about it. Just thought you should know even though it sucks.
I honestly can't believe I'm actually able to write something like this about a company that I had so much respect for.
I'm sorry.

[kevindtimm]

What guarantee did Colt put on their firearms in 1969?

[runfiverun]

when usfa took over the old building and equipment, colt was on the down hill slide.
the usfa guns I have and others I have shot made me want to buy more of them, they have the quality colt used to have and at a better price point.... think about that.

[Piedmont]

when usfa took over the old building and equipment, colt was on the down hill slide.
the usfa guns I have and others I have shot made me want to buy more of them, they have the quality colt used to have and at a better price point.... think about that.

Uh, they don't make those anymore. The prices have climbed substantially, and good luck on finding parts (they aren't all the same as Colt parts--the cylinders are larger diameter, for instance). At least if you bought a Colt SAA you can get parts and it has been that way for 140 years and there are gunsmiths who specialize in rebuilding them.

[Char-Gar]

We get our emotions involved in this kind of stuff and sometimes we need to step back and take another look.

A customer brings in a 44 year old pistol that is all jammed up and because of it's cosmetic appearance you judge it to be a factory problem.

Perhaps, you customer is not telling you the whole story. He may very well have tried to do a home accuracy job, put on the wrong link and caused the problem. Or he bought it from a guy who did that years ago, screwed it up and set it away for decades.

You seem firmly married to your point of view and diagnosis. In all truth, I can see Colt's point of view. They get a 44 year old pistol that is all jammed up and damaged as the result, and told it is their problem. If it was a factory problem it should have come through their doors years before. They probably have records showing it passed their test firing with flying colors.

Most likely that handgun was screwed up by some owner after 1969. Looks sometimes can be deceiving. Colt can't be rebuilding 44 year old pistols that left the factory in fine shape, but come back damaged by what probably was customer negligence.

[popper]

Keep the BP down Tim.
USA is just a shell of the country (sic. WE) they once were Most US companies are just shells too. All companies have some QC problems, all have slips in ethics. I don't won a Colt, probably never will cause I can get what I want at much less $$. Don't own a vehicle from the big 3 anymore either, for the same reason. I usually ask when offered a lifetime warranty if it's my life or the products lifetime (limited to the first time it breaks) that is covered. Response is usually a crooked smile.

[MBTcustom]

I could see their point of view very easily, if only I didn't have my point of view, and my point of view was at the underside of the slide where the hammer wears a track in the rear of the slide.
It's just like a drag line on a revolver. The more the gun is shot, the wider and shinier that track becomes.
I will restate, that it was my opinion that the gun had had less than 100 rounds through it in it's entire life.
Also, the gentleman who bought it is a (make that was a) Colt collector and no bubba. He told me that he had decided to go ahead and shoot the pistol and this problem developed in the course of that range trip. First it hung up just a little, and then worse, until it was jammed tight.
I stand by my assessment.

The part that really drove the nails in the coffin for me was their rude demeanor, and absolute unwillingness to budge a nickle, and the fact that they held the gun for three weeks without even acknowledging that they had received it.
I thought the whole thing was unprofessional. Couple that with the line of smoke the guy tried to blow up my pipe, and you will understand why I have lost all respect.
I spent a week just trying to get someone on the phone to discuss the problem. Unprofessional and apathetic.

Now, I have told you what went on with my experience. If anyone here disagrees with me, I'm totally OK with that. Just know that if your guns were made before 1997, you might as well scrape that horse off the side of the gun because it aint worth the stamp that struck it in there as far as Colt is concerned.

[km101]

I have not bought or owned a Colt product since the time that they first decided to stop selling to civilian customers.
Nothing that has happened since that time has changed my mind!

[mold maker]

I never owned a colt till a couple years ago. I was offered a Delta Elite at a good price and bought it. It is like the OPs gun, showing no wear and only one small mark on the slide. Now I'm afraid to shoot it.
I didn't buy it for a safe queen, but ammo was higher than most of the rest. I had always thought that the pony on the side was a guarantee of quality.
I own quiet a few Rugers and have no fear of their quality or service. My one and only complaint was resolved as quickly as the USPO could deliver, no questions ask.

[Johnch]

A few years back
I bought a ( ordered ) a new Colt AR15

It came with 2 - 10 round mags

With both mags , 6 rounds would feed
Then not

Called Colt to return the mags
In a not so nice way , was told to go pound sand
As they didn't make the mags and didn't warrenty them

Long story made short
I replaced the springs and they worked
Well 1 is still working , the other the base plate fell off
So I salvaged the spring and fowler and threw the rest of it in the scrap bin

The last Colt I will buy

John

[MtGun44]

I can't see the issue, either. A 1969 ANYTHING will be extremely unlikely to be warranted
to ANY extent by any company.

I was absolutely astounded when Ruger repaired a used Ruger std auto .22 many years ago,
the I bought used and was 20 yrs old then. They do NOT have to do this. Am I happy that
they did? Yes, but I do understand that a company that is a small remainder of a formerly
large company and is struggling financially, cannot afford to warranty for free guns that were
produced 44 years ago.

Change the story by swapping from "Colt gun" to ANY other name, like "Carrier air conditioner"
or "Ford truck" or "Sunbeam toaster" and see how the story sounds then? Pretty ridiculous,
I'd wager.

Bill

[Recluse]

I have not bought or owned a Colt product since the time that they first decided to stop selling to civilian customers.
Nothing that has happened since that time has changed my mind!

Pretty much my attitude. Aside from their *** M16s I used in the military, I've had no problems with Colt quality or customer service. But when they decided that military/government was their entire focus, I wrote them off.

Haven't looked back.


I can't see the issue, either. A 1969 ANYTHING will be extremely unlikely to be warranted
to ANY extent by any company.

Bill

Agree. Maybe I should fly up to Wichita and raise some stink with the Cessna folks because the coax from my cat-whiskers in the vertical stab to the VOR radio has gone bad. Being that it was done in 1965 shouldn't have anything to do with anything. The cable has been shielded from the outside all of its life since it runs from the stab down through the fuselage, underneath the floor and then up to the instrument panel.

Seeing some wear on my beloved 1984 Datsun/Nissan 300ZX in areas where simple age takes its toll even though there is no friction, no heat exposure, etc.

And then again, maybe I should start raising a stink with God Himself over how bad my body is wearing out even though it's only a little over half-a-century old.

I doubt there are too many folks at Colt today who worked there in 1969.

:coffee:

[MBTcustom]

I can respect that.
But somebody should tell Ruger they're doing it wrong.
Also, this was about the experiance as a whole. Not just the fact that they refused to repair the gun. Twice, I was told that I would be called, and I wasn't. 3 weeks I waited without an acknowledgment of receipt.....I'm not going to retype the op. Colt has wasted enough of my time for one year.
As long as there is a company like Ruger to use as a standard, then I will do just that. If there was a business in any other venue (and there are) that hold a standard up like Ruger does, then the other businesses would be held to that standard too.

[felix]

Radio? Prolly made and serviced by King Radio in Olathe way back then. ... felix

[9.3X62AL]

Ruger's product lines, customer service, and warrantee policies are likely why both Colt and Smith & Wesson's fortunes are in steady decline and Ruger's are ascendant. Neither of these declining companies make much that interests me or many others anymore, they know that, and see no reason to cater to a customer base that has looked elsewhere for most of their firearm needs. Ruger's view of the landscape differs greatly, and they know that customer service is the key to market share, as is making things that customers want, instead of what the company wants to assemble. Colt and S&W are all but dead to me.

[felix]

Tim, who really knows anymore. Gotta' go day-by-day. ... felix

[freebullet]

The trigger on a brand new colt defender rattles & flops around. I know of a few Tupperware guns that cost half as much & don't rattle when shakin. I've found anymore that paying for quality doesn't mean you receive quality. Heck lifetime warranties are a joke with some companies.

[bosterr]

Tim, I can relate to your Colt story, only mine is about Dan Wesson. My .44 cylinder would unlock at firing, and cock the hammer and that same chamber would come up to be fired again. I was told my gun was built before one of the earlier take-overs and nothing could be done. Sold it to someone who wanted to try to fix it himself, don't know the outcome of that. I bought a new Smith and Wesson 629 and still own it. The gun I shoot the most is the TC Contender, not the G2, and these things break springs a lot and other parts. I've heard that TC (Smith and Wesson) doesn't even make G2's anymore. I'm afraid at some point there's a lot of us TC shooters will be SOL. Take-overs and buy-outs are a fact of big business now a days, unfortunately. We're spoiled by companies like Ruger that go the extra mile for us, that's why I buy their products. The rest of them like Colt can kiss my A$$!

[kevindtimm]

I can respect that.
But somebody should tell Ruger they're doing it wrong.
Also, this was about the experiance as a whole. Not just the fact that they refused to repair the gun. Twice, I was told that I would be called, and I wasn't. 3 weeks I waited without an acknowledgment of receipt.....I'm not going to retype the op. Colt has wasted enough of my time for one year.
As long as there is a company like Ruger to use as a standard, then I will do just that. If there was a business in any other venue (and there are) that hold a standard up like Ruger does, then the other businesses would be held to that standard too.

On the timing and attitude points I'm with you 100% - but not on the warranty of a 44 yr old (insert name of product here).

[sparky45]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Colt has a "lifetime SERVICE" agreement, not a lifetime warranty.

[captaint]

I had heard that Colt was way over years ago. That aside, I have a USFA SAA in 44 Spl that I wish I had bought 5 more of. Simply elegant. Smooth. Beautiful. Accurate. A joy to own. Mike

[joesig]

After careful examination, I decided that the gun had unlocked prematurely, and had pinched the link. I put a brass drift on the barrel hood and with a few sharp raps from a brass hammer, the gun unlocked. Careful examination led me to believe that the parts were all original.


Goodsteel, if I understand this, is it your opinion that it "just" needs a properly fitted link to correct the problem? (Just trying to get a 1911 education)

I would agree that made in 1969 or 2009, it would have behooved Colt to fix the pistol. Loyalty is a two way street. It's not worth the negative publicity versus the employe's salary to fix it. It's called the cost of doing business. Plus the lack of honor is downright disgusting. There are craftsman and then there are laborers. I guess we know which is now the head of Colt.

[10-x]

All my Colts were mfg'ed before 1980, most Way before. Heard countless horror stories of poor to no QC on most newer Colts. Wife wants a small semi .380, Ruger will be it as I don't want her to have a new Colt. Makes me want to cry, Sam is rolling in his grave.

[Love Life]

Bought a new manufacture Colt Commander. Works as it should with no issues. Well...minus the chatter I the barrel...and the rattle...and...did I mention it was a Colt?

[MBTcustom]

All my Colts were mfg'ed before 1980, most Way before. Heard countless horror stories of poor to no QC on most newer Colts. Wife wants a small semi .380, Ruger will be it as I don't want her to have a new Colt. Makes me want to cry, Sam is rolling in his grave.

You nailed it right on the head. It's just depressing ya know? It's like theres all this mystique about the company, the products, the history etc etc etc, but when I finally had to deal with them, it's like I'm talking to Obama! Slick as greezed owl scat and about as concerned for you as the wolf is for the lamb. It was crushing, getting that big a dose of reality all at once.
I guess I'm naive, but I really believe the best of folks till they prove me wrong beyond the shadow of a doubt.

[Artful]

All my colts are before their cut off - none of mine have needed work - but I can remember a python ordered in 1980's that you couldn't pull it back for a single action let off as the hammer stuck - so they were not perfect - I had the fingered bushing replaced per someone who knew 1911's and told me it was a mistake to leave it in as one day a finger would break off at a bad time. When the State of Conn. purchased part of the company I knew I wouldn't own any more little pony guns.

[Love Life]

I wish I could say I was never going to buy another Colt, but I can't. Sadly I can't say it. I know they have problems. Lord do I know from personal experience, but at the end of the day, it is a Colt. That is all there is to it.

Several instances:
Years back I plunked down a big chunk of cheddar (or was it swiss) for a brand spanking new Kimber Custom TLEII. Just a fantastic 1911. Accurate, well fitted, and oh so sweet. One day my good friend known as "The Square" pointed something out to me as we were bs'ing. "It isn't a Colt. Haha!" I tried to shrug it off. I made fun of him for buying a sub par gun just for a name, but over time it ate at me. My how it ate me up. At the end of the day, even though it was much better made, my Kimber was not a Colt. It was sold, and replaced with a Colt. The Colt was a rattle trap and really was not fitted well, but it went bang and hit what it was supposed to. I was angered, but at the end of the day it was a Colt. Stupid Colt.

Over time I have weeded out my handguns and replaced with them Colts. Why? I have no fricking clue. It's like a disease. Not just any snubnose will do. It has to be a Colt. Not any DA revolver will do. It has to be a Colt. Not any SAA will do. It has to be a Colt, which subsequently leads to you selling a MUCH superior SAA copy to buy a new Colt SAA. Dumb. SO frigging dumb. However, notice how I typed SAA COPY<---!! No worries, in 6-12 months I'll have a new manufactured, BPF, COLT SAA which I'll probably have to ship off to a big name gunsmith to make it right.

What am I saying here? Colt actually does make a pretty poorly fitted firearm these days. If I was smarter I would not buy Colts. The only thing Colt has going for the company is that it is Colt.

[felix]

LL, Wayne is a member here. I'd think he'd take on a new patient with the affliction presented. He would know EXACTLY what ailment is prevalent. No research needed. ... felix

[Love Life]

It's terrible. I'm so ashamed...

[9.3X62AL]

There are still a number of Colts and S&Ws infesting my gun safe. I may buy more of them as time goes on, but currently have 3 S&W examples for sale. I accept that I'll need to do my own maintenance and repairs on these timepieces, and that parts may no longer exist to repair them. There are a few craftsmen able to make parts or conduct repairs throughout the country, but such services may incur costs like those of a Ferrari mechanic. As for the OP, a number of shops could make this 1911 derivative operational again, and given its 1969 birth time it is CERTAINLY worth getting repaired. There will be costs for that work, but Colt Government Model slides abound in the world if the present part's locking lugs can't be recut. I understand the disgust with an old-line legend being found wanting--but it's a graceless age, and honorable behavior is notable by its rarity, and not its frequency. I'm happy that there is a Ruger--an RCBS--a Leupold--and others whose words are iron and not air, at least in my experience.

Try finding an advancing hand for a Colt New Pocket revolver, vintage 1908--at any price. No mas, as Roberto Duran said. I have to wait for a D-frame example to die somewhere and scavenge what's needed from its corpse.

[g5m]

Sorry you had the problem, or your customer did anyway. I've had Ruger something or other for nearly 60 years and Colt something for over 50 years and don't have a gripe with either.
Mechanical stuff. Sometimes needs to be fixed.
Surely wouldn't like attitude though.
And only 20 employees? That is unexpected. Maybe that's just in the service area. A newspaper article indicated 670 employees.

[bandit7.5]

Don't know what you all are chawing about I've had 6 colts none made before 1945. This new stuff will never come anywhere near as good as these old work horses are now. And no none of mine were pretty. Little finish rough wood grips or well smoothed off hr grips. But they all locked like the Colt bank vaults they were designed to be.the new stuff is junk competeing against glock junk.

[Taylor]

I have had experience's with Ruger and Tauras for repairs.Both said the same thing; "we made it,we'll fix it"!,Send it to us.

[MBTcustom]

You know, I hadn't intended to slam Colt products. I was pointing out that the company policies and attitude leave much to be desired.
I come from a long line of Colt enthusiasts. Dad always told me that "nothing beats a Colt in SAA or 1911 (1980's mind you) but steer clear of Colt DA revolvers. They just don't run as dirty as a S&W will, and if you have to shoot 1000 rounds, the S&W will keep on tickin."
Well now, every single major manufacturer is making the Colt style products and doing it better with better quality service.
What has Colt reduced themselves to?
AR-15 and variants
1911 and variants
SAA and variants
Yeah, that's real unique. Where else are you going to find that kind of stuff? LOL!
(OK, I suppose they are making a special edition 1877 Gatling Gun and I think everybody needs one of those, and you can't get it from any other major manufacturer)

LoveLife, I understand what you are saying, and 2 months ago, I would have understood. Unfortunately, for me, that name will never carry the mystique it once did.
That's why I started this thread. I guess I did so out of mourning. That mystique is the only reason Colt can still sell guns, and after going round and round with the head honcho, I realized that that mystique is only paper thin, and only goes one way.

I have learned from this experience though. I will not destroy my opinion of Harley Davidson which is the only American icon that I hold in as high a regard as I did Colt.
If I ever buy a Harley, and something falls off and rolls down the road, I'm just going to duct tape my eye's button my lip, plug my ears, and shell out the doe to get it fixed. If I found out that the folks running that company had the same attitude as the folks running Colt, then I'd probably trade it in for a Victory.

[Just Duke]

I had an Anaconda I sent back three times. The barrel and front sight were sitting crooked. They told me they had a truck load trailer of guns to fix so it might be while.
I later called when it was crooked the second time and they told me, "Hey the guy that puts on the barrels is 72 years old and doesn't see to well so you'll just have to be patient" I asked why in the world would you have a Hyperopic person putting barrels on guns? "Were employee own" she said.
Finally on the third try they got it right. It went to the gunshow for sale after it was fixed.
I had a bad barrel on one of the Colt Delta Elites I had and they fixed it also. It was then shipped to my condo in AZ and it arrived with the barrel completely sticking out of the box all the way to the front sight. Flash hider and all.
Winchester has always been good though.

[10-x]

Not to hurt anyone's feelings, but IMHO the decline in quality is directly related to the involvement/control of "bean counters" in manufacturing. "It cost to much" was the end of hand fitting. Of course there are other factors, like unions, stupid regulations and greedy owners/share holders. Any of us that repair our own can see the difference when the side plate is taken off a older S&W or Colt, look at a newer one. All I can say is the machinist(operator) that allowed such **** off his machine would not work for me, as for QC, what QC?
I had a bean counter try to tell me how to run the maintenance department, kept complaining how much it cost to keep the overhead cranes and machine tools running, told him fine, when production stops I'll send the plant manager and production engineer to his office with his memo.

[sparkz]

wow, I have a few Horse stamped pistols and feel there great, also have a few rugers and love those, would had never thought you would had probs from the pony's tho

hope I never have to deal with them
good on ya to "keep your head"
I would have been filling the truck with gas and packing road foods..........
Big Toe Rodeo...


Patrick

[Charley]

Not to hurt anyone's feelings, but IMHO the decline in quality is directly related to the involvement/control of "bean counters" in manufacturing. "It cost to much" was the end of hand fitting. Of course there are other factors, like unions, stupid regulations and greedy owners/share holders. Any of us that repair our own can see the difference when the side plate is taken off a older S&W or Colt, look at a newer one. All I can say is the machinist(operator) that allowed such **** off his machine would not work for me, as for QC, what QC?
I had a bean counter try to tell me how to run the maintenance department, kept complaining how much it cost to keep the overhead cranes and machine tools running, told him fine, when production stops I'll send the plant manager and production engineer to his office with his memo.

This is closer to the truth than most of us would like to admit, or even acknowledge. The head honcho is an MBA, not a gun guy. He doesn't give a **** about the gun, the gun business, or reputation, he's in it for short term return on investment. Period.

[Dannmann801]

Hi Point woulda fixed it.....:kidding:

[Artful]

Wonder if Colt and Cimmaron in Texas know how it makes potential gun buyers feel/think about their products. How many of us have multiple guns but have now crossed these companies off our list of possible new gun purchases.
- Oh, well guess if it does make enough difference to their bottom line they will notice.

[Alvarez Kelly]

Although it may not be 100% true, I have heard Cimmarron imports their firearms. I don't believe they actually make anything. They don't have a real gunsmith on staff to fix anything.

[9.3X62AL]

Artful--

Makes ya wonder if the management cares, one way or the other. The horror stories about Cimarron are fairly rampant. I don't like "rolling the bones" like that when I drop hundreds of dollars on a firearm. I'm sure these management types rationalize their failures in some fashion, one bullet maker has gone on the record blaming his customers for the ammo and component shortage, for having over-bought these products. Really. Talk about The Wrong Answer, at The Wrong Time.

[MBTcustom]

So Brian, tell me. If I had a Dillon press of the same vintage, and it had an issue, how would I be treated if I sent it back to them?
Anybody out there shoot PSE bows? have you ever cracked the limbs? How were you treated?
Because of PSE's policy on repairs, all the other archery companies adopted similar warranties.
But guess who's product I used in competition?
Guess what brand machinery is strapped to my reloading bench? (I'll give you a hint, it's all green and blue)
Guess who my new favorite gunmaker is?
Guess what brand tools I use in the shop?

See, in my mind, guns are tools. That's why I named my business Malcolm Ballistic Tool. In my mind, if you think you're stuff is good enough to stamp your name in it, then you aught to put your money where your mouth is and stand behind it. If you only feel comfortable warranting a product of it was made this side of 1997, then I would say you don't think much of your product.
Sometimes I build rifles on platforms that were made 100 years ago, and they function flawlessly.
There was a time when people had little more than a coal forge to build firearms with, and they made products that could last centuries and still function. Here in "A"merica, it seems we have the best CNC milling machines money can buy, and all the technology to back it up, and Colt doesn't seem to think that their product should be expected to make it 15 years without falling apart.
Sorry, that bugs me. I think that for a company like Colt to have no more respect than that, is wrong.
That's just my opinion, and I'm entitled to it.

[Artful]

So Brian, tell me. If I had a Dillon press of the same vintage, and it had an issue, how would I be treated if I sent it back to them?

Well, I'm not Brian, but I have an RL-300 Dillon - when I broke a part I called into them - at that point in time they were selling square deals, RL-500(and I think 450's) and 1000's. Tech had NO clue as what a RL-300 was - turn me over to higher authority who had heard of one but never seen one, he got someone who had evidently been with the company since just after Dillon started making stuff who informed me my machine should be in a museum and they had one small box of parts (which he checked) and they didn't have the part and couldn't warranty my machine - he advised I could trade my machine in which I quickly declined - so I wound up having the part made by a local machinist. But I was treated with respect and full disclosure at every step, and I think they made every effort they could to take care of me.

[Love Life]

Moral of the story: Buy Glocks!!

Seriously though, there is just something about holding a Colt. I wish they would put more effort into their firearms, but alas, it is not to be. They have their military contracts for their bread and butter. Notice how Colt's known QC issues have allowed a plethora of makers to take large chunks of their market? Sad really.

If for some odd reason I get a wild hair up you know where for another 1911 I would choose a Remington or Kimber over the Colt.

They are living off of their name in the civilian market and one day it may come back to bite them. There is something wrong when consumers would rather pay more money for another brand, than they would for the original. Tsk, Tsk Colt. Pull your head out of your butt and make firearms worth what you charge again.

[Love Life]

Used Colts cost as much as new Colts.

[oldred]

Wow, is no one going to stick up for Colt here? Well not me either unfortunately and while I probably could overlook unwillingness to honor warranty on a 44 year gun it is painfully obvious that Colt quality is nowhere near what it once was and by the number of negative responses compared to the positive (or lack of!) I am sure their bottom line is going to suffer, the "Bean counters" are ruining another good company and are going to cost Colt a lot of money by "saving" money in the wrong way!

[Alvarez Kelly]

I'm Brian. :-)

Sorry Tim, but I'm not sure how my post got your response. I was commenting on the Cimarron post.

I actually own a Uberti, but I deliberately ordered it through Taylor, who had their well respected gunsmith go through it. I love it!

But to your point Tim, I can see your point about Colt. They are not the same, and haven't been for a long time. It is now purely a financial investment, trading off a once gloriously well respected name.

On Artful's comment. All I can say is, me too. :-) Seagiant got my last RL300.

Dillon offers the no BS lifetime warranty on the RL450, RL550, XL650, and their Square Deal presses. The Super 1050 has a one year warranty. What many forget, as Artful alluded to, Dillon made a lot more presses in the early years. They include the RL300, at least three different 450 jr models, and the RL1000. I'm probably forgetting a few. Still, they help with the old stuff as best they can.

[Love Life]

Wow, is no one going to stick up for Colt here? Well not me either unfortunately and while I probably could overlook unwillingness to honor warranty on a 44 year gun it is painfully obvious that Colt quality is nowhere near what it once was and by the number of negative responses compared to the positive (or lack of!) I am sure their bottom line is going to suffer, the "Bean counters" are ruining another good company and are going to cost Colt a lot of money by "saving" money in the wrong way!

Why would anybody give Colt good press right now? What is being said is the truth. If you want a Colt, expect to be disappointed by the fit and finish. I'm sure some squeak through that are perfect, but having played with them over the years by buying them, fondling them in stores, etc, all that is being said is the sad and plain truth. Kind of a bummer. Oh well.

[oldred]

I am not sure how you took my post but I 100% agree with what is being said, it certainly is the truth! As far as not honoring warranty on a 44 year old gun I guess they may have a point BUT from a good business point of view they would have done well to fix Goodsteel's pistol, warranty or not!

[Love Life]

It all boils down to history.

Wyatt Earp didn't hold his own with a uberti SAA clone. He carried a Colt, as did many others. When I'm playing desert wanderer, and I reach for a handgun, I want a pony on it...well my model 28 gets a bunch holster time as well, but I digress. For now I'm busy beating the poo out of an el cheapo SAA clone.

I hope I did not sound cross oldred. I was agreeing with you agreeing with me!

It would have been nice for Colt to have fixed the pistol, but I also see where they are coming from. $400 sure would have saved them a bunch of bad press though. Think of the many who are going to read this thread.

[2wheelDuke]

This thread is giving me some second thoughts. I've wanted a Colt 1911 for years now. I got my first 1911, a Charles Daly about 7 years ago. I said I'd get a Colt someday. I was really thinking about one of the railed 1911's when I could afford it. I was thinking railed stainless Colt like the Marines ordered might be the one for me.

For what the Springfield or Sig railed 1911's cost, I could get the Colt. I guess I'll have to think about it more as I keep saving.

[oldred]

As of right now I have only one Colt, a New Frontier 22lr/22WMR, that I bought new in '76 and it would take an obscene amount of money to make me part with it! I have owned 3 Woodsmans two of which were Match Target versions (I have often thought about hiring someone to kick my butt for selling those things!) and they were all fantastic pieces- especially the 4" Match Target that I would dearly love to replace. My little Colt 22 "Six Gun" has had untold hundreds of rounds through it and it still has that incredible smooth feel and sound to it when cycled, something I am told is not always the case for these little guns. Anyway the color case has mostly faded from the frame and I had toyed with the idea of sending it back to Colt to be re-done but I guess that would be a very bad idea now even if they would still do it, I am thinking of sending it to Turnbull instead.

[MBTcustom]

I am sure their bottom line is going to suffer, the "Bean counters" are ruining another good company and are going to cost Colt a lot of money by "saving" money in the wrong way!

My thoughts exactly.

I honestly thought I would get railroaded for posting this thread. I'm not trying to tell anyone not to buy a Colt. I'm simply saying that for me, I believe I'm going to have a bad taste in my mouth for the rest of my life. Talking to 'ol slickums was like sucking on a mothball for an equal period of time.
I think that every time I see that horse, I'm going to remember the kind of person that is now in charge of Colt.
It's not that he didn't pay for my clients gun, I get paid the same either way, it's just the way that every single employee came across, and especially 'ol slickums. Blaaaaach! pooey pooey! it's that mothball taste again!

[Love Life]

This thread is giving me some second thoughts. I've wanted a Colt 1911 for years now. I got my first 1911, a Charles Daly about 7 years ago. I said I'd get a Colt someday. I was really thinking about one of the railed 1911's when I could afford it. I was thinking railed stainless Colt like the Marines ordered might be the one for me.

For what the Springfield or Sig railed 1911's cost, I could get the Colt. I guess I'll have to think about it more as I keep saving.

Get the Colt. No matter how you spin it, justify it, or pray about, if you want a Colt, and didn't buy the Colt, you will regret it.

Buy the Colt, shoot the bejesus out of it, and be happy.

[Love Life]

My thoughts exactly.

I honestly thought I would get railroaded for posting this thread.

Why? Your integrity is not to be questioned, and all you did was point out the gigantic elephant sitting over there in the corner.

[Artful]

Get the Colt. No matter how you spin it, justify it, or pray about, if you want a Colt, and didn't buy the Colt, you will regret it.

Buy the Colt, shoot the bejesus out of it, and be happy.

I agree, Examine it carefully before you buy it - but buy what you want.

[blackthorn]

Is the quality of Colt firearms sold to the military any better???

[MBTcustom]

That's true Bill, but this pistol would have fooled anybody. On the outside everything looked perfect, and by perfect I mean freakin immaculate! I still have a hard time believing it was made in 1969. The guy bought it for around $1400, and honestly, I would have too.
Sometimes you just get a lemon. When that happens, some companies will bend over backward to try to reduce the ripple that a lemon can cause. Some companies like Colt want you to pay to cover their steaming pile, and they don't give a darn who doesn't like it, or how it affects their image.
I'll tell you one thing, Hollywood never cared if the guns used on set actually worked or not. It's all for dress up, and play time, and Colt's look historical.
Me, I need my guns to do more than look pretty. It's a tool, and I want a lifetime warranty with it.
In fact, I have considered buying a Hipoint as a truck gun. It's made in "A"merica, has a lifetime warranty, and is darn near indestructible. Not only that, but I don't taste mothballs when I see a hipoint (ugly as they are).

[MBTcustom]

Is the quality of Colt firearms sold to the military any better???

Probably not, but the military cleans up after all the gun manufacturers including Remington. They take a model 700, and throw away the barrel and spend hours blueprinting the action and reworking the horrendous trigger. Then they screw on a Snieder barrel, drop it into a McMillan A5 stock and spray paint it black. Must be nice for Remington. I have no doubt that a similar procedure is used for AR rifles from Colt.

[MBTcustom]

Tim ,
I agree with you firearms are a working tool but also a working art. I want mine accurate or I loose interest.
Like in your signature line Townsend Whelen: "Only accurate rifles are interesting".

Both of us being people who pay attention to details, it catches my eye so have have to ask; Why don't you write America with a big A?

Oops, my mistake. Bad editing on my part. However, I offer an iron clad warranty on everything I make, so now I'm going to fix it free of charge LOL!

Dang, I did it twice in this thread. Looks like I have developed a disrespectful habit. Feel free to call me on it in the future. I'll be more careful.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Perhaps the most tragic part of this story is to find out the Colt Firearms Co. only has twenty employees. A former employee of Colt opened a gunshop in Brea, back in the 1970s. Since he had an inside track he could get orders processed quickly. A man that I worked with ordered several engraved single actions. They were beautiful pistols. The man was single by the way. The gunshop owner told me then that the union would be Colt's undoing. He said Colt couldn't bring out a new model without first getting union approval.

[Artful]

What to look for?

Muzzle crown.
Rifling,
That area directly under the front sight in the bore. Did it get to hot from any soldering?
Forcing cone
Cylinder mouths.
Cylinder gap.

Carry a jacketed bullet(s) with a 90 degree base that can be used as a pin gauge to check a few things on a possible purchase. Mike them before hand.
Could make a whole new topic of check list for this.

2wheelDuke wants Colt 1911
Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFMTMZCnSZs

http://www.m1911.org/InspectionChecklist.pdf

[9.3X62AL]

As a sidelight to this thread's subject matter........there are elements of firearms hobby participation that I am losing patience with and interest in. I sold off 7 firearms early this year, bought 2 others, and now have 6 more I've put on the block. I'm not saying that I'm removing myself from firearms hobby participation--my enthusiasm for hunting remains as strong as ever, that won't change a bit. No shotguns have been sold, though a nephew gained my Dad's Model 12 a while back.

Most of these items sold and for sale are handguns, which have for most examples been toys and recreational impliments for me. Their makers have quit making them, mostly--or are making cheap repros that aren't close to the quality of the examples I'm selling. Ammo and component makers aren't interested is providing their wares in any significant amount, either.

To hell with them all.

I have discontinued loading 7 metallic calibers since the first of the year. I have sold or given away die sets, moulds, a powder measure, and components that I will not use any longer--and that list may grow longer. I have a certain amount each month that I can spend on recreation and hobbies, and many of the "consumables" I've used for years for reloading have become unavailable or their prices have multiplied by several orders of magnitude.

The public's interest in the firearm hobbies was and is growing apace. The problem is that most of the suppliers to that hobby are hopelessly and cluelessly stuck in 1970s modes of manufacturing, distributing, and merchandising--and there really is very little that is new or novel in these fields. Steve Hornady has blamed the customers for creating the problems facing his industry. Talk about "Up And Locked".

I contrast this retrograde attitude and receding market service with that of another hobby field I am deeply involved with--sport fishing, both fresh- and salt-water. Apples and oranges, totally--the makers of tackle are far more dynamic, innovative, and are exploring new markets constantly. There are new rods, rod materials and technologies, reels, refinements to those reels, lures, lines, hook upgrades and improvements, ad infinitum.

Their businesses are similarly threatened by government and private action--there are no ends to threats to fishing rights and public waterway access, but rather than curl up and die the tackle makers and anglers' groups SUE THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS out of those who try that nonsense. NRA could learn a few lessons from AFTMA about how to make life miserable for your adversaries.

I think more of my disposable income for recreation will be diverted toward fishing and boating, and far less of it toward firearms and the related industries that support them. Fishing and boating interests at least act like they want to win the fights they get into, and aren't constantly hammering their adherents for more money every week like NRA does--for which little to no return is received. The sales and give-aways of firearms and tooling will give me even more money for hobby interests, and each firearm sold will be one less new gun sale for these bloated, arrogant, uncaring manufacturers to profit from. (I don't include Ruger in this class--they actually do most things right).

I am fed up with gunmaker--ammomaker--and NRA bullsquat. DONE.

[Just Duke]

Very well said Al.

[Lance Boyle]

Odd, last year I sent back a 1961 python with an over torqued barrel. They reset the barrel and reblued (sheet says they reblued it but it looks like they used touch up blue on the holster wear spots which promptly wiped right off at the first cleaning), I didn't get any guff about working on the gun.

[9.3X62AL]

Al,
Like you wrote everything has it's pluses & minuses. If your boat has a motor you get to deal with the EPA, state enviro's, game wardens, fish cops, and ninja leo's with their hot rod boats.

I haven't seen that yet, Bill. Boat has a Yamaha 4-stroke/60 HP, no EPA issues with those so far. Cal-DFW has been largely decent with me, I've hunted and fished for most of my life. Between a fair-chase orientation and playing the games by the rules, I don't get bothered at all and very seldom get checked. I don't run the boat like a fool, so CG or Harbor Patrol hasn't contacted me. The Boat Fools attract the attention, mostly.

There are snitches that stake out MLPAs and MPAs along the coast, and they call in anglers that fish in the closed or limited zones. These tree-huggers lie their azzes off, and Cal-DFW is wise to their bullsquat. If you fish in Mexico (I don't), USBP/DHS has been known to board vessels on the water or in CA harbors for search and inspections. A few of those contacts have gone badly, but that is outside my experience. The Federales DO shut down and capture pangaderos smuggling people and dope via the ocean from Mexico with some frequency, so they can't be faulted for showing the flag now and then.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

What Al has said is spot on, as they say in England. We are in a situation that was easy to see coming. We knew that if the politicians couldn't get the guns they would go for the ammo. We here in Kommiefornia saw are firing ranges close one by one, some that had been open for fitfy or more years. What is the point of having a safe full of fine guns if there is no place to shoot them, or ammo for them if you did? I know of several people in the same mindset as Al and or selling guns you couldn't have talked them out of for love nor money just a few years ago. I am included in that group. One area where Al and I part company is about fishing. I just can't warm up to the idea. My excursions into fishing have always ended the same way, extreme boredom and utter failure, and of course as everyone knows, fish taste fishy. A brother-in-law once got me out on the Mississippi River for an entire day doing a type of fishing called jugging, again without success. When we finally got to shore late that afternoon I told him, never again. During my three years in the US Navy in the early fiftys I was stationed at the boat house on North Island, San Diego. Fishing boats were kept there for ships company and we could go deep sea fishing for the grand sum of 75 cents. I never availed myself of the opertunity, although I did try my hand at fishing from the pier, moslty without success. The moral of this diatribe, if you want to catch fish, don't ever invite me along.

[onceabull]

Well gents ,I've been a fisherman longer than I've been a hunter/shooter..Growing up my family was not into handguns,and the prevailing thought was that kids had to be able to shoulder a hunting rifle and keep it there unaided for 3 minutes before they got to waste ammo at the range..If you all will chip in $ ,I'll guide Gopherslayer two nights of trotlining on the Colorado River(Tx) right around tidewater mark ,,,Set line()s) at twilight, party till midnight(byob),run the line(s),nap till 4 AM, run'em again.Nap till daylight,have breakfast,Pick up lines..Clean and fillet.. Need two nights,because the odds of flipping the light on and seeing a pair of eyes 6-8" apart sizing you up and around 1 in 4 (past experience)..That's when you realize what "No Country for old men".is about... Onceabull

[Char-Gar]

I have a number of Colt handguns, but only one fairly new one. In 2007 I bought a new Colt Government Model (1911 45 ACP). It has run without issue right out of the box and have never given me any kind of problems. I like it allot.

That is the sum total of my experience with recent Colt products. I have never needed to contact the service department for anything in my entire life, so I have no information there.

Based on the above, if I wanted to buy a new Colt, I would buy a new Colt.

[Love Life]

Char-Gar has brought up something that can be said about the Colts I have owned and shot.

The 1911's all shot anything and everything with no tweaking. Pull it out of the box, load, shoot.

I buy Colts with confidence because despite everything I've said about them, mine have always worked exactly like they are supposed to without having to tweak or do anything. No special boolit profile or seating depth needed. No magic dance.

They just work.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I used to think that it would be fun after I retired to go down near the border and give the border patrol a hand by lying on a hill and spotting smuglers or illegals until two years ago when my wife and I went down there looking for an old cavalry outpost that was located hard against the border by the name of Campo. It was very hot and dry that day and I realized then that it was no country for old men and I am definitly an old man and there is another birthday just over the horizon.

[9.3X62AL]

My "newest" Colt product is a mid-90s Gold Cup MatMatch, and it is an utter delight. I would likely choose a Colt over most other makes of 1911A1 variant, but I would NOT select it sight-unseen or over the internet. My recent shopping (last year) for a Colt Commander showed the base models to be rather poorly fitted, roughly finished, and sloppy, but their up-market examples (XSE stainless) were pretty darn good. I think the term "Wednesday gun" as opposed to "Monday/Friday production" might apply here.

I had a brief sojourn with a Ruger Commander Model this spring, and it was delightful as well. I would have had a tough choice if the SIG P-220 hadn't showed up several months ago--another Commander-sized 45 ACP that runs very well. Issue resolved.

[BruceB]

I too have had a few Colt bummers, but these stretch 'WAY back in time (as far as the '70s).

One was a Colt "Blackpowder Series" 1851 Navy.... as received in the box, this NEW gun could not be brought to full cock! How it could be proofed or test-fired escapes me. Investigation revealed that the front strap of the brass grip frame was SO THICK that the mainspring pressed against it as the hammer was brought back, and BEFORE the hammer reached the full-cock position. Now, I realize that the bblackpowder Colts were made off-shore, but they were sold here at premium prices.

I note Al's high regard for the Gold Cup, but I bought a pair of PRE-70-series .45 Gold Cups back around 1970 for Bullseye target shooting. Neither one worked worth a hoot, and they were eventually replaced with S&W M52s. In fairness, I must admit that these were early days for my handloading, but the 52s ran fine on my loads. The two Colts were unreliable even with factory round-nose ammunition, so it wasn't just my handloads.

I had a Frontier Scout .22 single action in the '60s which was fine, and still have a 1959 civilian 1911A1 which is still running at 100%..... but these are NOT the current-production items which are so disappointing.

[Gliden07]

This thread is kinda sickening as Goodsteel has posted, the Colt Logo was a symbol of quality. I own 1 Colt, a King Cobra Revolver that I received in payment for a job I did. Nice gun, finish is nice too. But I am an Auto loader guy so I shoot it very little. When I bought my 1911 I went with a Kimber over the Colt have not regretted that purchase 1 bit!! I didn't understand why I had to buy a $1K 1911 and send it to a Gunsmith to get it accurate? When talking to Colt 1911 owners it seemed it was expected if you wanted an accurate Colt 1911. It's just to bad about whats going on this country now a days!!

[Adam10mm]

Pretty much my attitude. Aside from their *** M16s I used in the military, I've had no problems with Colt quality or customer service.

Three cousins and my younger brother have all used Colt M16s and M4s in combat. My brother for 6 tours in the ME. Three in the sandbox and three in the litter box. Being a gun nut and them not, I asked them about weaponry. They had nothing bad to say about their Colt rifles.

In my experience as a gunsmith, their AR15s are better than their 1911s.


I can respect that.
But somebody should tell Ruger they're doing it wrong.
Ruger is the company I hate sending guns back to for factory repairs. I've been at this 7 years and I have yet to have a "decent" experience with their customer service. Their factory replacement part only list is complete nonsense. Sent in a customer's pistols for factory repair. Four years later I'm still waiting for them to return them.

[TXGunNut]

I've been fooling around with Colt pistols for a little over 30 yrs with no complaints. In the 80's I was told that Colts were as good as it got and you might as well get ready to double your investment in a new gun with custom "reliablity and accuracy" work. I only have one Colt built after 1997 and it only needed springs and an extractor after I bought it used, normal maintenance in my book. I recently bought "new" Colt SAA but it was made long before 1997, not much or any better than my clones but it's a Colt!
Today's Colts (and clones) are much better than they were 30 yrs ago but there's no excuse for poor customer service in today's world.

[MBTcustom]

I just don't understand.
You say "but it's a Colt". What exactly makes it a Colt other than a stamp on the side of the gun?
History? OK, how much does the history matter to the current owners?
Function? OK, so Colt is head and shoulders above everybody else in excellent quality?
Originality? What innovations are they doing lately? They threw all the great products we love out the window.

The company is being passed around to the highest bidder, and is being run by a bunch of money grubbing interlopers who are getting rich off that very saying: "but it's a Colt".
NO IT AIN'T!
It isn't even close. It's all an image.

[10-x]

goodsteel,
Think you pretty much summed it up about Colt, or should it be colt? My 1st Colt was made in 1852, last in 1980. Old ones are what they are, history, lots of new ones are just junk. I tell people to look for older Colts to buy, they are out there. Again, way to many businesses are run by folks with a sheep skin and no clue of what the product is.

[Geraldo]

My Colt experience is 50/50. I only owned two revolvers: old Diamondback .22 was great and a brand new Anaconda that needed immediate work. It went to Colt and they did nothing to it except return it. I ended up doing the work myself. In 1911s I had a few good ones including one of their modern 1911 WWI models and a few dogs. My advice to those who insisted on Colt 1911 was to go to a shop that had a lot on hand and then sort through them.

Of course Colt is a shadow of a once good company. So is S&W, and because of S&W ownership so is Thompson Center. At one time S&W showed up at big matches and would tune up revolvers for free on site. I'm sure that went the way of the dinosaur. Remington/Marlin is headed the same way. It's the modern business theory. Market a "brand" and make it as cheap as possible. The only concern is share price.

Ruger and Dillon are notable exceptions.

[g5m]

That's true Bill, but this pistol would have fooled anybody. On the outside everything looked perfect, and by perfect I mean freakin immaculate! I still have a hard time believing it was made in 1969. The guy bought it for around $1400, and honestly, I would have too.
Sometimes you just get a lemon. When that happens, some companies will bend over backward to try to reduce the ripple that a lemon can cause. Some companies like Colt want you to pay to cover their steaming pile, and they don't give a darn who doesn't like it, or how it affects their image.
.

I had wondered about that. The owner then isn't the first owner and no telling what somebody else might have done to the pistol.
Maybe that's why somebody sold it after screwing it up. If I remember correctly there was a spate of accurizing articles back in the late 1960's and early 1970's including changing the link for "better lockup". Oh well. I am sorry about the situation for you and your customer.

[Love Life]

Tim, you asked "What exactly makes it a Colt other than a stamp on the side of the gun?"

For me it is the fact that it is a Colt. Nothing grinds my gears as bad as when somebody says "I own a Colt", and you look at the thing, and it is some other manufacturer's 1911. Just saying.

When I buy Colt, you can guaruntee that I am paying for the name. Probably one of the dumber things I do, but oh well. Not only am I paying for the name, but I'm paying for utility and function. It is odd, for me, since I'll baby off brand (Kimber, Springfield, etc) guns but I'll shoot and wear the bejesus out of a Colt that cost as much or more than the off brands.

You can buy a Colt, Shoot the poo out of it, and still come out on the winning side when it comes time to sell.

To answer your question: What is it about a Colt?
Answer: It's a Colt, and the others aren't.

[KCSO]

I gave up on COLT years ago. I had a friend who had to have a COLT percussion revolver and when it came i it would't shoot. The frame was not properly milled and the hammer would not go down far enough to set off a cap. When we were looking the gun over the bottom came out of the box and we found a slip in the bottom..." Uberti ship to High Standard for assembly". So much for a REAL COLT! Currently a COLT SAA cost $1200.00 and they are ot as well finished or as smooth as a Cimarron. Colt lived too long on reputation and name and are now dead because of it.

[Adam10mm]

there's no excuse for poor customer service in today's world.
I agree. I think the reason why customer service is so poor and so widespread is communication technology. Telephone, email, text messages, forums, chat rooms, etc all took the face to face communication of yesteryear and removed the "person" from the personal communication. People are different behind a facade than they otherwise would be face to face. People forgot how to treat people like human beings because they don't have to interact with them face to face if they don't want to. When companies set themselves up for the tiered distribution system, they become cold and inhumane to their end consumers. They forget the consumer is the reason the company still exists. Some companies seem to be run by people that still hold fast to the old ways which is unfortunately seldom seen.

[Adam10mm]

When I was a kid the saying was "The customer is always right."
Whatever happened to that one? Does anyone else remember it?
88 replies and no mention of that old adage LOL
The customer is NOT always right. That's why.

[onceabull]

"The customer is always right" ,Still wishing I could have 3 cents for everytime I heard that from the Dexedrine,methedrine,Talwin,et al,addicts I sent down the road empty during those long ago years.... Onceabull

[TenTea]

Hi Point woulda fixed it.....:kidding:

Sadly, this was my thought as well...

[mroliver77]

You know, I hadn't intended to slam Colt products. I was pointing out that the company policies and attitude leave much to be desired.
I come from a long line of Colt enthusiasts. Dad always told me that "nothing beats a Colt in SAA or 1911 (1980's mind you) but steer clear of Colt DA revolvers. They just don't run as dirty as a S&W will, and if you have to shoot 1000 rounds, the S&W will keep on tickin."
Well now, every single major manufacturer is making the Colt style products and doing it better with better quality service.
What has Colt reduced themselves to?
AR-15 and variants
1911 and variants
SAA and variants
Yeah, that's real unique. Where else are you going to find that kind of stuff? LOL!
(OK, I suppose they are making a special edition 1877 Gatling Gun and I think everybody needs one of those, and you can't get it from any other major manufacturer)

LoveLife, I understand what you are saying, and 2 months ago, I would have understood. Unfortunately, for me, that name will never carry the mystique it once did.
That's why I started this thread. I guess I did so out of mourning. That mystique is the only reason Colt can still sell guns, and after going round and round with the head honcho, I realized that that mystique is only paper thin, and only goes one way.

I have learned from this experience though. I will not destroy my opinion of Harley Davidson which is the only American icon that I hold in as high a regard as I did Colt.
If I ever buy a Harley, and something falls off and rolls down the road, I'm just going to duct tape my eye's button my lip, plug my ears, and shell out the doe to get it fixed. If I found out that the folks running that company had the same attitude as the folks running Colt, then I'd probably trade it in for a Victory.

The local Harley shop here has been open since 1960. Owner is 3rd generation. Dealership is for sale. He stated that he is ashamed of pimping "junk".

Sorry Tim.
J

[Adam10mm]

The local Harley shop here has been open since 1960. Owner is 3rd generation. Dealership is for sale. He stated that he is ashamed of pimping "junk".

Sorry Tim.
J
My father's HD has more problems than all four of his Hondas combined. Got so tired of having it in the shop more than on the road, so he sold it just to get rid of a money pit.

[MBTcustom]

I had one pink balloon left. You rode by on your unicycle and cut the string. Now I'm standing here, no sucker, no balloon, and it's starting to rain.
Thanks for your commitment to reality suckers!

(ok this is intended as a joke and I'm laughing my butt off for the first time in this thread, so please take it as I mean it)

[Elkins45]

Because of PSE's policy on repairs, all the other archery companies adopted similar warranties.

PSE screwed me royally on a very expensive bow I bought new in the early 90's that basically self-destructed after a few hundred shots. Never again will they get a dime of my money. So your experience isn't universal.

As for Colt: well, is there anything they make that I can't find a better version of for less? Nope. My first 1911 was a Colt that I saved for months to buy. It wouldn't eject a loaded round. I honestly have never had the level of respect you seem to have had for them. You can get a better 1911 for less from a couple of makers and you can't get a DA revolver from them at all. They are just a company, and not a very good one or they would still be prospering.

[Love Life]

Why would a grown man have pink balloons?

[MBTcustom]

Why would a grown man have pink balloons?

Well, if you can't have a Colt, a Harley, or a Budwieser, you might as well LOL!

[9.3X62AL]

Why would a grown man have pink balloons?

Such things are dimly viewed in my part of California. Different story in SFO or Palm Springs, where it might attract some rough trade.

[rockrat]

Have a few Colts. The ones I shoot are an 80 series gold cup, a NF SAA, and a match competition HBAR. No problems with any of them. The SAA was a bit of a pain as the bbl was .428" and the chamber mouths are .433". But fed .433" cast boolits, it shoots as good as my eyes can see.

Sorry you had such a run around with the factory, Goodsteel. Bet if they would have come out with the $150 figure first, the customer would have agreed to that.

I had worn out a S&W 29 once, I shot it so much. Sent it back and they quoted me a figure to rebuild it, far more than I could have bought a new one at that time. Lyman did the same to an electronic scale, charge more to fix than I could have bought a new one.

[Artful]

Why would a grown man have pink balloons?
'Cuz Eeyore already got the red one.
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/178/9/0/eeyore___red_balloon_by_phoenixa86-d552onn.png